Why do we ask what the founding fathers would have wanted?

[Claudette]

The FF were pretty clear on what they wanted.

That being the States having the power and a small Fed Govt.

I have no doubt if they could see what America is today those good men would turn over in their graves.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Here's what you almost certainly didn't know about the 'founders'.

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

"When American colonists declared independence from England in 1776, they also freed themselves from control by English corporations that extracted their wealth and dominated trade. After fighting a revolution to end this exploitation,

our country’s founders retained a healthy fear of corporate power and wisely limited corporations exclusively to a business role.

Corporations were forbidden from attempting to influence elections, public policy, and other realms of civic society.

Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end. The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these*:

• Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.

• Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.

• Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.

• Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.

• Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.

• Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making...."

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

Any time someone tries to tell you how much we need to go back to what the founders believed in,
show them the above.

Any time someone tries to tell you how much the founders wanted limited government or any laissez-faire approach to big business,

show them the above.

 

[CowboyTed]

We look to the founders to get a sense of their intent when writing the Constitution.
There is a wealth of information regarding that in the notes of the Constitutional Convention and the Federalist Papers.
The founders were largely educated, but not novelists or poets. Their words cannot be interpreted as one would interpret Shakespeare. They are to be taken literally using definitions common in the late 18th century.

we look to the Founders because they were geniuses who created the greatest country in human history by far. They wanted us to follow their Constitution because they knew we would be stupid fools wondering in the desert without it.

If they had faith in us they would have had us vote on everything.

Cause their are idiots still around that believe the they were god like beings. Truth is the founders would have been lost in the technology and discussions today.

The Right like to have certainty and belief that exceptional force is guiding them. Look at the Bible, Founders and more recently Regan....

The have people who manipulate them by taking meanings and turning into what they believe. This is no different to what an iman does in the muslim faith. So they get a bunch of conservative lawyers to tell them they already believe and then screw what's written down in to that.

This is another reason they don't like big long laws, there is far less interpretation left to places like the supreme court...


Truth is, most other democratic countries have constitutions which they vote on amendments approx every 2 years. Laws are written to have no loopholes and is judged on intent. The swiss have referendums every 3 months. US hasn't had a significant one since 1971, question is, Is the constitution perfect and nothing has changed in America in the last 44 years or has the method of changing the law become too status quo.

This is the difference between a living constitution and a dead one.

 

[peach174]

Here's what you almost certainly didn't know about the 'founders'.

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

"When American colonists declared independence from England in 1776, they also freed themselves from control by English corporations that extracted their wealth and dominated trade. After fighting a revolution to end this exploitation,

our country’s founders retained a healthy fear of corporate power and wisely limited corporations exclusively to a business role.

Corporations were forbidden from attempting to influence elections, public policy, and other realms of civic society.

Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end. The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these*:

• 
  
  
  • Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.

• 
  
  
  • Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making...."

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

Any time someone tries to tell you how much we need to go back to what the founders believed in,
show them the above.

Any time someone tries to tell you how much the founders wanted limited government or any laissez-faire approach to big business,

show them the above.

We have things like this printed up that dupe the people of this nation because they do not know our history.
Truly sad.
Reclaim Democracy? Really?
At the founding of our Nation we were a Constitutional Republic.
At the Turn of the 20th century Progressives turned us into a Democracy and we have slowly been losing our Freedoms ever since.
Our Founders were very wise men and they knew history very well and knew that eventually Democracies always fail.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Here's what you almost certainly didn't know about the 'founders'.

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

"When American colonists declared independence from England in 1776, they also freed themselves from control by English corporations that extracted their wealth and dominated trade. After fighting a revolution to end this exploitation,

our country’s founders retained a healthy fear of corporate power and wisely limited corporations exclusively to a business role.

Corporations were forbidden from attempting to influence elections, public policy, and other realms of civic society.

Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end. The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these*:

• 
  
  
  • Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.

• 
  
  
  • Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making...."

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

Any time someone tries to tell you how much we need to go back to what the founders believed in,
show them the above.

Any time someone tries to tell you how much the founders wanted limited government or any laissez-faire approach to big business,

show them the above.

We have things like this printed up that dupe the people of this nation because they do not know our history.
Truly sad.
Reclaim Democracy? Really?
At the founding of our Nation we were a Constitutional Republic.
At the Turn of the 20th century Progressives turned us into a Democracy and we have slowly been losing our Freedoms ever since.
Our Founders were very wise men and they knew history very well and knew that eventually Democracies always fail.

Your garbled denial of irrefutable facts was mildly amusing.

 

[peach174]

Here's what you almost certainly didn't know about the 'founders'.

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

"When American colonists declared independence from England in 1776, they also freed themselves from control by English corporations that extracted their wealth and dominated trade. After fighting a revolution to end this exploitation,

our country’s founders retained a healthy fear of corporate power and wisely limited corporations exclusively to a business role.

Corporations were forbidden from attempting to influence elections, public policy, and other realms of civic society.

Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end. The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these*:

• 
  
  
  • Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.

• 
  
  
  • Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making...."

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

Any time someone tries to tell you how much we need to go back to what the founders believed in,
show them the above.

Any time someone tries to tell you how much the founders wanted limited government or any laissez-faire approach to big business,

show them the above.

We have things like this printed up that dupe the people of this nation because they do not know our history.
Truly sad.
Reclaim Democracy? Really?
At the founding of our Nation we were a Constitutional Republic.
At the Turn of the 20th century Progressives turned us into a Democracy and we have slowly been losing our Freedoms ever since.
Our Founders were very wise men and they knew history very well and knew that eventually Democracies always fail.

Your garbled denial of irrefutable facts was mildly amusing.

You are the one in denial.

• 
  

 

[Mac1958]

I don't understand this tradition.

As for myself, I think the Constitution of the United States remains the most brilliant document ever written, adherence to it created the most prosperous and free country on the planet, and I'm sure as hell going to give it and its authors the respect I personally feel it deserves.

Were there faults and flaws in both the document and its authors? Obviously. Were there elements of the document that simply do not apply today? Certainly. But I look at what these men accomplished in Philadelphia and my impulse is to try to promote (what I perceive to be) the overall spirit of the Constitution, if not every specific element of it.

.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Here's what you almost certainly didn't know about the 'founders'.

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

"When American colonists declared independence from England in 1776, they also freed themselves from control by English corporations that extracted their wealth and dominated trade. After fighting a revolution to end this exploitation,

our country’s founders retained a healthy fear of corporate power and wisely limited corporations exclusively to a business role.

Corporations were forbidden from attempting to influence elections, public policy, and other realms of civic society.

Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end. The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these*:

• 
  
  
  • Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.

• 
  
  
  • Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.

• 
  
  
  • Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making...."

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

Any time someone tries to tell you how much we need to go back to what the founders believed in,
show them the above.

Any time someone tries to tell you how much the founders wanted limited government or any laissez-faire approach to big business,

show them the above.

We have things like this printed up that dupe the people of this nation because they do not know our history.
Truly sad.
Reclaim Democracy? Really?
At the founding of our Nation we were a Constitutional Republic.
At the Turn of the 20th century Progressives turned us into a Democracy and we have slowly been losing our Freedoms ever since.
Our Founders were very wise men and they knew history very well and knew that eventually Democracies always fail.

Your garbled denial of irrefutable facts was mildly amusing.

You are the one in denial.

Feel free to prove any of the information I posted to be inaccurate.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Cause their are idiots still around that believe the they (Founders)were god like beings. .

What other human beings in the history of humanity did more?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

, adherence to it created the most prosperous and free country on the planet,
.

exactly, and as important, it created the moral force and moral policeman on the planet. Try to imagine the planet without the USA through 2 world wars and the countless police actions since then. If you think the world can make do without a policeman try to imagine a city doing without policeman. Without police there is no civilization.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

carbin is dumbest liberal here always. Corporations then were govt monopolies designed to enrich the monarchy. Today there are 100 million of them locked in a life and death competition to raise our standard of living at the fastest possible rate.

Simple enough for even a child just not an adult liberal.

 

[deltex1]

I don't understand this tradition.
My question is what exactly is the purpose of using the founding fathers or even the foundations of the United States as a means of creating laws in today's society. From what I understand none of the people who made a lot of the rules today are no longer alive. So why would we care what these people wanted? Maybe this is a stupid question but whenever I hear people argue about politics almost inevitably someone brings up the foundations of the country. I always thought that what was more important was what was better for the people in that society. So can someone please clarify why this seems to be a valid argument?

The people who don't understand this tradition are the same ones who scoff at traditional marriage, the Ten Commandments, the sanctity of life and the call for self reliance, self sacrifice, self denial, self discipline....and the concept of God Himself. These people have lost their way....they depend on Google for answers.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

This is the difference between a living constitution and a dead one.

rapid change is what the liberals Hitler Stalin and Mao wanted because they lacked the IQ to learn what was best to conserve in human history. This is why the very definition of conservative includes intelligence while liberal includes ignorance.

Do you understand?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

carbin is dumbest liberal here always. Corporations then were govt monopolies designed to enrich the monarchy. Today there are 100 million of them locked in a life and death competition to raise our standard of living at the fastest possible rate.

Simply enough for even a child just not an adult liberal.

We're talking about what the founders wanted, idiot.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The people who don't understand this tradition.

liberals lack the IQ to understand; that's why they are liberal. The poor get welfare, the gay get marriage, the sick get free healthcare. If its a simplistic, non-sustainable, brain dead solution its a liberal solution!!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

We're talking about what the founders wanted, idiot.

yes dear and they wanted no govt monopoly corporations!! Today's corpoartions are saintly providing us with our jobs and the products we need to survive.

Now does the dumbest one here understand??

 

[dblack]

I don't understand this tradition.
My question is what exactly is the purpose of using the founding fathers or even the foundations of the United States as a means of creating laws in today's society. From what I understand none of the people who made a lot of the rules today are no longer alive. So why would we care what these people wanted? Maybe this is a stupid question but whenever I hear people argue about politics almost inevitably someone brings up the foundations of the country. I always thought that what was more important was what was better for the people in that society. So can someone please clarify why this seems to be a valid argument?

Far from being a "stupid question", this is one of the important topics you could raise. Thank you for doing so.

From my perspective, the personal desires of the founders aren't particularly relevant. But what is important, is the power granted to government by the Constitution. In order to understand that document, given that it's over 200 years old, it's important to understand the meaning of the words when they were ratified by the member states. This is usually raised when there is some dispute over the meanings of different passages of the document.

If we want to understand what the 'general welfare clause' and the 'commerce clause' really meant, to those who authorized them as grants of power to the federal government, we need to know more about the context in which they were read and understood at the time.

 

[Spare_change]

I don't understand this tradition.
My question is what exactly is the purpose of using the founding fathers or even the foundations of the United States as a means of creating laws in today's society. From what I understand none of the people who made a lot of the rules today are no longer alive. So why would we care what these people wanted? Maybe this is a stupid question but whenever I hear people argue about politics almost inevitably someone brings up the foundations of the country. I always thought that what was more important was what was better for the people in that society. So can someone please clarify why this seems to be a valid argument?

Ladies and gentlemen!

Gather around - right over here!

We have an announcement to make!

Ladies and gentlemen - thank you for joining me today. I'm excited to announce that we have a new nominee for Dumbest Thread of the Week!

Yes, this beats out the previous candidate - Do Possums Really Need Birth Control Services?

Cast your votes! Cast your votes!! Let's recognize excellent when we see it!

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I don't understand this tradition.
My question is what exactly is the purpose of using the founding fathers or even the foundations of the United States as a means of creating laws in today's society. From what I understand none of the people who made a lot of the rules today are no longer alive. So why would we care what these people wanted? Maybe this is a stupid question but whenever I hear people argue about politics almost inevitably someone brings up the foundations of the country. I always thought that what was more important was what was better for the people in that society. So can someone please clarify why this seems to be a valid argument?

We have the most dumbest, ignorant, stupid, collection of raw sewage in DC the world has ever seen and you would entrust them to write a constitution?

 

[dblack]

I don't understand this tradition.
My question is what exactly is the purpose of using the founding fathers or even the foundations of the United States as a means of creating laws in today's society. From what I understand none of the people who made a lot of the rules today are no longer alive. So why would we care what these people wanted? Maybe this is a stupid question but whenever I hear people argue about politics almost inevitably someone brings up the foundations of the country. I always thought that what was more important was what was better for the people in that society. So can someone please clarify why this seems to be a valid argument?

Ladies and gentlemen!

Gather around - right over here!

We have an announcement to make!

Ladies and gentlemen - thank you for joining me today. I'm excited to announce that we have a new nominee for Dumbest Thread of the Week!

Yes, this beats out the previous candidate - Do Possums Really Need Birth Control Services?

Cast your votes! Cast your votes!! Let's recognize excellent when we see it!

Why is this dumb question??? I wish more people would bother to ask questions of principle as important as this one. If they did, instead of taking everything on faith, we might have more accountability in government.