Why Do The Muslims Hate Us?

[The Irish Ram]

George W. Bush said he prayed for weeks about Iraq and god told him to invade. He then proceeded to lose 4500 of our own young men and women and conservative estimates are that from 200,000 to 300,000 innocent Iraqi people were killed during the 9 years of skirmish and that doesn't include their combatants. I might also mention that when the suicide bombings started an estimated 2-3 million, mostly Muslims abandoned their homes and fled to Jordan and Syria.

As a boy I read about the European hordes conducting the Crusades against the middle eastern Muslims. Many Muslims were forced to “convert” to Christianity. If they refused, they were put to death. I'm pretty sure a Muslim would like for us to get the fuck out of the middle east. Not to worry.....as long as we have an interest in their oil, we will be there.

Right. so where is the oil we got from Iraq?
Time to put all of that Bible study you did all your life to use for the answer to your question.
Genesis 16:12 is your answer. They hate everybody including their own.
Apparently you are so busy hating Christianity, that you forgot to hate the Muslim crusaders:

Western Crusades started in 1095 A.D. to Stop Muslim Invasion
The Crusades were started by the Muslims in the year 630 A.D. when Muhammad invaded and conquered Mecca. Later on, Muslims invaded Syria, Iraq, Jerusalem, Iran, Egypt, Africa, Spain, Italy, France, etc. The Western Crusades started around 1095 to try to stop the Islamic aggressive invasions. Islamic Crusades continued even after the Western Crusades.

Islam has killed about 270 million people: 120 million Africans*, 60 million Christians, 80 million Hindus, 10 million Buddhists, etc.

Forced conversions to Islam have been the norm, across three continents—Asia, Africa, and Europe—for over 13 centuries. Orders for conversion were decreed under all the early Islamic dynasties, under both Seljuk and Ottoman Turkish rule, and in Persia/Iran and the Indian subcontinent, etc.

Islam has been at a continuous war against non-Muslims for almost 1400 years (since Muhammad.)
Following is a list of the major Islamic invasions preceding the Western Crusades.
ISLAMIC CRUSADES
630 Muhammad conquers Mecca from his base in Medina.
632 Muhammad dies in Medina. Islam controls the Hijaz.
636 Muslims conquest of Syria, and the surrounding lands, all Christian – including Palestine and Iraq.
637 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iraq (some date it in 635 or 636).
638 Muslim Crusaders conquer and annex Jerusalem, taking it from the Byzantines.
638 – 650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iran, except along Caspian Sea.
639 – 642 Muslim Crusaders conquer Egypt.
641 Muslim Crusaders control Syria and Palestine.
643 – 707 Muslim Crusaders conquer North Africa.
644 – 650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Cyprus, Tripoli in North Africa, and establish Islamic rule in Iran, Afghanistan, and Sind.
673 – 678 Arabs besiege Constantinople, capital of Byzantine Empire.
691 Dome of the Rock is completed in Jerusalem, only six decades after Muhammad’s death.
710 – 713 Muslim Crusaders conquer the lower Indus Valley.
711 – 713 Muslim Crusaders conquer Spain and impose the kingdom of Andalus. The Muslim conquest moves into Europe.
718 Conquest of Spain complete.
732 Muslim invasion of France is stopped at the Battle of Poitiers / Battle of Tours. The Franks, under their leader Charles Martel (the grandfather of Charlemagne), defeat the Muslims and turn them back out of France.
762 Foundation of Baghdad.
785 Foundation of the Great Mosque of Cordova.
789 Rise of Idrisid amirs (Muslim Crusaders) in Morocco; Christoforos, a Muslim who converted to Christianity, is executed.
800 Autonomous Aghlabid dynasty (Muslim Crusaders) in Tunisia
807 Caliph Harun al—Rashid orders the destruction of non-Muslim prayer houses & of the church of Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem.
809 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sardinia, Italy.
813 Christians in Palestine are attacked; many flee the country.
831 Muslim Crusaders capture Palermo, Italy; raids in Southern Italy.
837 – 901 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sicily, raid Corsica, Italy, France.
869 – 883 Revolt of black slaves in Iraq.
909 Rise of the Fatimid Caliphate in Tunisia; these Muslim Crusaders occupy Sicily, Sardinia.
928 – 969 Byzantine military revival, they retake old territories, such as Cyprus (964) and Tarsus (969).
937 The Church of the Resurrection (aka Church of Holy Sepulcher) is burned down by Muslims; more churches in Jerusalem are attacked.
960 Conversion of Qarakhanid Turks to Islam.
969 Fatimids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Egypt and found Cairo.
973 Israel and southern Syria are again conquered by the Fatimids.
1003 First persecutions by al—Hakim; the Church of St. Mark in Fustat, Egypt, is destroyed.
1009 Destruction of the Church of the Resurrection by al—Hakim (see 937).
1012 Beginning of al—Hakim’s oppressive decrees against Jews and Christians.
1050 Creation of Almoravid (Muslim Crusaders) movement in Mauretania; Almoravids (aka Murabitun) are coalition of western Saharan Berbers; followers of Islam, focusing on the Quran, the hadith, and Maliki law.
1071 Battle of Manzikert, Seljuk Turks (Muslim Crusaders) defeat Byzantines and occupy much of Anatolia.
1071 Turks (Muslim Crusaders) invade Palestine.
1073 Conquest of Jerusalem by Turks (Muslim Crusaders).
1075 Seljuks (Muslim Crusaders) capture Nicea (Iznik) and make it their capital in Anatolia.
1076 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) conquer western Ghana.
1086 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) send help to Andalus, Battle of Zallaca.
1090 – 1091 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) occupy all of Andalus except Saragossa and Balearic Islands.
START OF WESTERN CRUSADES
Only after all of the Islamic aggressive invasions is when Western Christendom launches its first Crusades.
1094 Byzantine emperor Alexius Comnenus I asks western Christendom for help against Seljuk (Muslim Turks) invasions of his territory.
1095 Pope Urban II preaches first Crusade; they capture Jerusalem in 1099.

Bad bad Christianity, Good good Islam? Stuff it Cammmpbell.

 

[Dajjal]

There's a lot less hateful Muslims in this country than there are bible thumping, snake handling, holy rollin' Jesus Freaks. Religious people, mostly so called Christians have hated and despised homosexuals and blacks nearly all my life. The low down Ku Klux Klan is a Christian organization. That's their first requirement....the hooded ones must be a Christian. Where do you think all that cross burning came from?

Yea, and there are a few less since 9/11 when they killed themselves crashing planes into buildings with three thousand innocent people in them, or have you forgotten that.
We might have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, but that was a response to the attack on America.

As for the imperfection of so called christians, they are not following Jesus teachings, but their own hatreds. What christians should be doing is loving their neighbour and turning the other cheek. Unlike muslims who are told to fight in the way of Allah, and cut off unbelievers heads, and their finger tips also.

 

[jillian]

George W. Bush said he prayed for weeks about Iraq and god told him to invade. He then proceeded to lose 4500 of our own young men and women and conservative estimates are that from 200,000 to 300,000 innocent Iraqi people were killed during the 9 years of skirmish and that doesn't include their combatants. I might also mention that when the suicide bombings started an estimated 2-3 million, mostly Muslims abandoned their homes and fled to Jordan and Syria.

As a boy I read about the European hordes conducting the Crusades against the middle eastern Muslims. Many Muslims were forced to “convert” to Christianity. If they refused, they were put to death. I'm pretty sure a Muslim would like for us to get the fuck out of the middle east. Not to worry.....as long as we have an interest in their oil, we will be there.

you understand that fundie christians and fundie muslims both engaged in forced conversion and murder of what they considered infidels, right?

you also can't really use bush's actions as a "reason" for their irrational hatred since bush didn't act til AFTER they killed thousands of New Yorkers. (regardless of him being correct or incorrect in his response).

there are no excuses for terrorism.... the people they target are innocents. and you can justify it any way you want... civilized people have choices about how they respond to things.

it's like saying you "understand" why the batterer beat his wife b/c she "provoked" him by burning his dinner.

 

[Avatar4321]

You can't force conversion. Not even of yourself.

 

[jillian]

You can't force conversion. Not even of yourself.

does the name torquemada mean anything to you?

 

[Si modo]

Because of Infidels such as yourself.


I bet you're penpals with death row inmates.

 

[elvis]

George W. Bush said he prayed for weeks about Iraq and god told him to invade. He then proceeded to lose 4500 of our own young men and women and conservative estimates are that from 200,000 to 300,000 innocent Iraqi people were killed during the 9 years of skirmish and that doesn't include their combatants. I might also mention that when the suicide bombings started an estimated 2-3 million, mostly Muslims abandoned their homes and fled to Jordan and Syria.

As a boy I read about the European hordes conducting the Crusades against the middle eastern Muslims. Many Muslims were forced to “convert” to Christianity. If they refused, they were put to death. I'm pretty sure a Muslim would like for us to get the fuck out of the middle east. Not to worry.....as long as we have an interest in their oil, we will be there.

True but it goes back a lot farther than bush. But you're too much of a hack to tell the whole story.

 

[Cammmpbell]

There's a lot less hateful Muslims in this country than there are bible thumping, snake handling, holy rollin' Jesus Freaks. Religious people, mostly so called Christians have hated and despised homosexuals and blacks nearly all my life. The low down Ku Klux Klan is a Christian organization. That's their first requirement....the hooded ones must be a Christian. Where do you think all that cross burning came from?

Yea, and there are a few less since 9/11 when they killed themselves crashing planes into buildings with three thousand innocent people in them, or have you forgotten that.
We might have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, but that was a response to the attack on America.

As for the imperfection of so called christians, they are not following Jesus teachings, but their own hatreds. What christians should be doing is loving their neighbour and turning the other cheek. Unlike muslims who are told to fight in the way of Allah, and cut off unbelievers heads, and their finger tips also.

Iraq never had a thing to do with 9/11....that was George W. Bush getting even with Saddam Hussein for attempting to assassinate his daddy in 1993. Even slow people have caught on to that. Shucks he said he prayed about it before he attacked so that makes GAWD an accomplice.

 

[Avatar4321]

You can't force conversion. Not even of yourself.

does the name torquemada mean anything to you?

Of course. But he still did not have the power to force conversion.

 

[Avatar4321]

Iraq never had a thing to do with 9/11....that was George W. Bush getting even with Saddam Hussein for attempting to assassinate his daddy in 1993. Even slow people have caught on to that. Shucks he said he prayed about it before he attacked so that makes GAWD an accomplice.

I cannot comprehend how people can still claim that 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. 9/11 changed the dynamic of foreign policy in the United States. It had a huge impact on the decision to go into Iraq. Especially with the history of Saddam supporting terrorism and his use and goals to obtain WMDs.

You may disagree with the decision to go into Iraq. But to say 9/11 had nothing to do with it is absurd.

How can God be an accomplish if He doesn't exist? You are admitting that you know there is a God by making your accusation here. Think about it.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Iraq never had a thing to do with 9/11....that was George W. Bush getting even with Saddam Hussein for attempting to assassinate his daddy in 1993. Even slow people have caught on to that. Shucks he said he prayed about it before he attacked so that makes GAWD an accomplice.

I cannot comprehend how people can still claim that 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. 9/11 changed the dynamic of foreign policy in the United States. It had a huge impact on the decision to go into Iraq. Especially with the history of Saddam supporting terrorism and his use and goals to obtain WMDs.

You may disagree with the decision to go into Iraq. But to say 9/11 had nothing to do with it is absurd.

How can God be an accomplish if He doesn't exist? You are admitting that you know there is a God by making your accusation here. Think about it.

Horse Shit and Moose Kock!! Within half an hour after the hijacked plane hit the pentagon Donald Rumsfeld called his staff and told them to write a plan to invade Iraq. That was before anybody even knew the first thing about who had struck us.

The Republicans had been trying to get even with Saddam for trying to kill old man Bush all the way back to when it happened. Here's a letter to president Clinton they wrote and signed in 1998:

January 26, 1998



The Honorable William J. Clinton
President of the United States
Washington, DC


Dear Mr. President:

We are writing you because we are convinced that current American policy toward Iraq is not succeeding, and that we may soon face a threat in the Middle East more serious than any we have known since the end of the Cold War. In your upcoming State of the Union Address, you have an opportunity to chart a clear and determined course for meeting this threat. We urge you to seize that opportunity, and to enunciate a new strategy that would secure the interests of the U.S. and our friends and allies around the world. That strategy should aim, above all, at the removal of Saddam Hussein’s regime from power. We stand ready to offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor.

The policy of “containment” of Saddam Hussein has been steadily eroding over the past several months. As recent events have demonstrated, we can no longer depend on our partners in the Gulf War coalition to continue to uphold the sanctions or to punish Saddam when he blocks or evades UN inspections. Our ability to ensure that Saddam Hussein is not producing weapons of mass destruction, therefore, has substantially diminished. Even if full inspections were eventually to resume, which now seems highly unlikely, experience has shown that it is difficult if not impossible to monitor Iraq’s chemical and biological weapons production. The lengthy period during which the inspectors will have been unable to enter many Iraqi facilities has made it even less likely that they will be able to uncover all of Saddam’s secrets. As a result, in the not-too-distant future we will be unable to determine with any reasonable level of confidence whether Iraq does or does not possess such weapons.


Such uncertainty will, by itself, have a seriously destabilizing effect on the entire Middle East. It hardly needs to be added that if Saddam does acquire the capability to deliver weapons of mass destruction, as he is almost certain to do if we continue along the present course, the safety of American troops in the region, of our friends and allies like Israel and the moderate Arab states, and a significant portion of the world’s supply of oil will all be put at hazard. As you have rightly declared, Mr. President, the security of the world in the first part of the 21st century will be determined largely by how we handle this threat.


Given the magnitude of the threat, the current policy, which depends for its success upon the steadfastness of our coalition partners and upon the cooperation of Saddam Hussein, is dangerously inadequate. The only acceptable strategy is one that eliminates the possibility that Iraq will be able to use or threaten to use weapons of mass destruction. In the near term, this means a willingness to undertake military action as diplomacy is clearly failing. In the long term, it means removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power. That now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy.

We urge you to articulate this aim, and to turn your Administration's attention to implementing a strategy for removing Saddam's regime from power. This will require a full complement of diplomatic, political and military efforts. Although we are fully aware of the dangers and difficulties in implementing this policy, we believe the dangers of failing to do so are far greater. We believe the U.S. has the authority under existing UN resolutions to take the necessary steps, including military steps, to protect our vital interests in the Gulf. In any case, American policy cannot continue to be crippled by a misguided insistence on unanimity in the UN Security Council.

We urge you to act decisively. If you act now to end the threat of weapons of mass destruction against the U.S. or its allies, you will be acting in the most fundamental national security interests of the country. If we accept a course of weakness and drift, we put our interests and our future at risk.

Sincerely,

Elliott Abrams Richard L. Armitage William J. Bennett

Jeffrey Bergner John Bolton Paula Dobriansky

Francis Fukuyama Robert Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad

William Kristol Richard Perle Peter W. Rodman

Donald Rumsfeld William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber

Paul Wolfowitz R. James Woolsey Robert B. Zoellick

 

[skye]

Islam ultimate objective is to spread over the whole world its own peculiar culture, determined by Sharia Law.

The natural enemies are different religions and different cultures, and the West stands out in its opposition to Islam's plans.

Islam feels frustrated and thinks it should regain its former glory, but its thwarted in every step by the far superior Western power, culture,Law and freedom.

They hate us because we have been made their scapegoats to blame for their complete failure in every area .... except terrorism!

 

[Avatar4321]

Im sure you think you have made a point, but it really doesnt change the truth of anything I said.

 

[Connery]

Islam ultimate objective is to spread over the whole world its own peculiar culture, determined by Sharia Law.

The natural enemies are different religions and different cultures, and the West stands out in its opposition to Islam's plans.

Islam feels frustrated and thinks it should regain its former glory, but its thwarted in every step by the far superior Western power, culture,Law and freedom.

They hate us because we have been made their scapegoats to blame for their complete failure in every area .... except terrorism!

^^^
Nice post!!!

Indeed, in 1785, Ambassador to Tripoli Sidi Haji Abdrahaman wrote the following to Thomas Jefferson: "It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once." (see "American Peace Commissioners to John Jay," March 28, 1786, "Thomas Jefferson Papers," Series 1. General Correspondence. 1651–1827, Library of Congress. LoC: March 28, 1786)

While the above speaks to the First Barbary war, nothing much has changed since.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I don't for a second believe that all Muslims hate us. Im not convinced a majority do. I could be wrong. It's hard to guage the thought of a large population of people that could be highly divergent or not.

What I can say is if there is any hate, it existed long before Iraq occured.

But hate is easy to beat when you have love. Trade good for evil. That's why Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.

Jesus and the Buddha would agree with you, but Muhammad said the curse of God is on unbelievers in him and the day of judgement.

The quran teaches muslims to hate us.

Why the hypocrisy and lies?


“In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction..." —2nd Thessalonians 1:8,9

“The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.”-Psalm 9:17…

“I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit…”- Ezekiel 31:16…

“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”- Matthew 5:28,29…

 

[syrenn]

You can't force conversion. Not even of yourself.

wanna bet?

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Islam ultimate objective is to spread over the whole world its own peculiar culture, determined by Sharia Law.

The natural enemies are different religions and different cultures, and the West stands out in its opposition to Islam's plans.

Islam feels frustrated and thinks it should regain its former glory, but its thwarted in every step by the far superior Western power, culture,Law and freedom.

They hate us because we have been made their scapegoats to blame for their complete failure in every area .... except terrorism!

Bullshit...the problem is in America we have a bunch of fucking idiotic morons like you who are a cancer to our country....fucking idiots....only dumbasses left in the world....learn like the Europeans to be a little reasonable

US media angrily marvels at the lack of Muslim gratitude | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

One prominent strain shaping American reaction to the protests in the Muslim world is bafflement, and even anger, that those Muslims are not more grateful to the US. After all, goes this thinking, the US bestowed them with the gifts of freedom and democracy – the very rights they are now exercising – so how could they possibly be anything other than thankful? Under this worldview, it is especially confounding that the US, their savior and freedom-provider, would be the target of their rage.

On Wednesday, USA Today published an article with the headline "After attacks in Egypt and Libya, USA Today asks: Why?" The paper appeared to tell its readers that it was the US that freed the Egyptian people from tyranny:

"Attacks in Libya that left four US diplomats dead – including Ambassador Christopher Stevens – and a mob invasion of the US Embassy in Cairo, in which the US flag was torn to shreds, have left many to wonder: How can people the USA helped free from murderous dictators treat it in such a way?"

Did you know that the "USA helped free" Egyptians from their murderous dictator? On Thursday night, NBC News published a nine-minute report on Brian Williams' "Rock Center" program featuring its foreign correspondent, Richard Engel, reporting on the demonstrations in Cairo, which sounded exactly the same theme. Standing in front of protesting Egyptians in Tahrir Square, Engel informed viewers that this was all so very baffling because it was taking place "in Cairo, where the US turned its back on its old friend Hosni Mubarak", and then added:

"It is somewhat ironic with American diplomats inside the embassy who helped to give these demonstrators, these protesters, a voice, and allowed them to actually carry out these anti-American clashes that we're seeing right now."

That it was the US who freed Egyptians and "allowed them" the right to protest would undoubtedly come as a great surprise to many Egyptians. That is the case even beyond the decades of arming, funding and general support from the US for their hated dictator (to his credit, Engel including a snippet of an interview with Tariq Ramadan pointing out that the US long supported the region's dictators).

Beyond the long-term US support for Mubarak, Egyptians would likely find it difficult to reconcile Engel's claim that the US freed them with the "made in USA" logos on the tear gas cannisters used against them by Mubarak's security forces; or with Hillary Clinton's touching 2009 declaration that "I really consider President and Mrs Mubarak to be friends of my family"; or with Obama's support for Mubarak up until the very last minute when his downfall became inevitable; or with the fact that the Obama administration plan was to engineer the ascension of the loathed, US-loyal torturer Omar Suleiman as Mubarak's replacement in the name of "stability".

Given the history of the US in Egypt, both long-term and very recent, it takes an extraordinary degree of self-delusion and propaganda to depict Egyptian anger toward the US as "ironic" on the ground that it was the US who freed them and "allowed" them the right to protest. But that is precisely the theme being propagated by most US media outlets.

Even in Libya, where it's certainly true that many Libyans are happy about the Nato intervention, this bafflement is misplaced. It's always the case that some portion of the populace of an invaded nation will be happy about even the most unjustified invasions: that the Kurds are thrilled by the Iraq war is a fact still cited by Iraq war advocates as proof of the war's justness and wisdom.

But it's also the case that such invasions produce extreme anger, as well: among the families of those killed by the invading forces, or who suffer from the resulting lawlessness and instability. Combine that with the fact that it was repeatedly noted that US involvement in Libya meant that anti-US extremists, including al-Qaida, were being armed and empowered by the US, it is far from mystifying, as Secretary Clinton insisted, that some people in Libya are deeply hostile to the US and want to do it harm.

In the same report, Engel also spent several moments explaining that the primary reason these Muslims have such animosity toward the US is because their heads have been filled for years with crazy conspiracy theories about how the US and Israel are responsible for their woes. These conspiracies, he said, were fed to them by their dictators to distract attention from their own corruption.

Let's leave aside the irony of the American media decrying crazy "conspiracy theories" in other countries, when it is the US that attacked another country based on nonexistent weapons and fabricated secret alliances with al-Qaida. One should acknowledge that there is some truth to Engel's claim that the region's tyrants fueled citizen rage toward the US and Israel as a means of distracting from their own failings and corruption.

But to act as though Muslim anger toward the US and Israel is primarily the by-product of crazy conspiracy theories is itself a crazy conspiracy theory. It's in the world of reality, not conspiracy, where the US and Israel have continuously brought extreme amounts of violence to the Muslim world, routinely killing their innocent men, women and children. Listening to Engel, one would never know about tiny little matters like the bombing of Gaza and Lebanon, the almost five-decade long oppression of Palestinians, the widely hated, child-killing drone campaign, or the attack on Iraq.

And it's in the world of reality, not conspiracy, where the US really has continuously interfered in their countries' governance by propping up and supporting their dictators. Intense Muslim animosity toward the US, including in Egypt, long pre-dates this film, and the reasons aren't hard to discern. That's precisely why the US supported tyranny in these countries for so long: to ensure that the citizens' views, so contrary to US policy, would be suppressed and rendered irrelevant.

It doesn't take a propagandized populace to be angry at the US for such actions. It takes a propagandized populace to be shocked at that anger and to view it with bafflement and resentment on the ground that they should, instead, be grateful because we "freed" them.

But to see why exactly such a propagandized populace exists in the US and has been led to believe such myth and conspiracies, simply read that USA Today article or watch the NBC News report on these protests as they convince Americans that gratitude, rather than resentment, should be the sentiment people in that region feel toward the US.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Why Muslims are still mad at America – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs

 

[syrenn]

Bullshit

islam teaches its followers to hate anything... not toeing the line, not converting or being assimilated.


it is as simple as that

 

[Avatar4321]

You can't force conversion. Not even of yourself.

wanna bet?

As I've stated before, I dont gamble.

However, perhaps you could tell me how people can forcefully be born again?