Why do Christians Strongly Disagree with Science and Distrust Scientists

[Coloradomtnman]

no offense, but that's really stupid.

It's not as stupid as it is logical.

I find science absolutely fascinating yet I believe in God as the Creator of this Universe. I am a baptized Christian as well.

Could you explain that one for us?

Yes: you're not one of the Christians described in the OP.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

And I didn't write ALL Christians either. It seems to me like you're trying to build a case where there isn't 1.

Well, that's your opinion. It isn't true, but its your opinion.

Case in point, Del asked you for an example of your "many" and you linked to a thread where 1 poster, an obvious troll, said it. 1 doesn't equal many.

Go back about 7 posts. I linked another thread.

It doesn't matter??? Do you realize what you just said? TRUTH doesn't matter...

Eh! Wrong! That isn't what I said. I said another's perception doesn't matter when it comes to my (or anyone else's) perception of truth. Read it again.

Epic Fail.

Sure. Whatever you want.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Einstein himself said "Science without theology is blind, and theology without science is crippled".

Ah, but Einstein wasn't a Christian, he was Jewish, and not even really that. He believed in a higher power which he called "god", but he wasn't religious.

And......the Hebrews worked WITH science.

It was the Greeks that created the division between the two.

Very true. It was Pythagoras who could be deemed as responsible for the idea of separation between science and religion. Bastard! And I liked geometry in high school. It seemed so much more easier to understand than Algebra.

 

[Newby]

This thread is a joke.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

This thread is a joke.

Well, that's a good point.

I hope you had a good laugh. Thanks!

 

[Amanda]

And I didn't write ALL Christians either. It seems to me like you're trying to build a case where there isn't 1.

Well, that's your opinion. It isn't true, but its your opinion.

Case in point, Del asked you for an example of your "many" and you linked to a thread where 1 poster, an obvious troll, said it. 1 doesn't equal many.

Go back about 7 posts. I linked another thread.

It doesn't matter??? Do you realize what you just said? TRUTH doesn't matter...

Eh! Wrong! That isn't what I said. I said another's perception doesn't matter when it comes to my (or anyone else's) perception of truth. Read it again.

Epic Fail.

Sure. Whatever you want.

You said you didn't have to provide proof of your assertion because it was what many believed. But what many believe doesn't equal truth. So unless you want to pony up some examples of my homophobic statements you need to take back what you said because it isn't true.

 

[Amanda]

Einstein himself said "Science without theology is blind, and theology without science is crippled".

Ah, but Einstein wasn't a Christian, he was Jewish, and not even really that. He believed in a higher power which he called "god", but he wasn't religious.

Uh oh...

Didn't you just say in another thread that if one believed in a god they WERE religious?

 

[Newby]

This thread is a joke.

Well, that's a good point.

I hope you had a good laugh. Thanks!

Yes, at your expense.

 

[ABikerSailor]

CMM, granted, Einstein was not Christian, but, the very fact that he DID have a belief in a Higher Power does not make his statement any less true.

Personally? I think that people like Einstein, Stephen Hawking (I hope he gets better soon), as well as many other great men of science actually talked to God.

Read the book "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" sometime by Gary Zukav. Kinda interesting how it explains spirituality via physics. Good read by the way.....the first 70 pages are pretty heavy duty math, but, once you get through that part, it's a fascinating read.

I look at it this way........a person who uses only science to explain the world, generally ends up creating some pretty bad things. Military hardware and the atomic weapon are an example of this.

A person who only uses theology to explain the world will know very little about how things work, as whenever they see something unusual, all they will say is "God did it", and not bother to inquire farther.

But.......God doesn't really want that. What I believe He wants (as referenced in the story of Abraham), is for us to look around at the whole world (like Abraham), so that we can see where He is in this world (much like Abraham), so that we too can know Him as Abraham did.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it Christians.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Einstein himself said "Science without theology is blind, and theology without science is crippled".

Ah, but Einstein wasn't a Christian, he was Jewish, and not even really that. He believed in a higher power which he called "god", but he wasn't religious.

Uh oh...

Didn't you just say in another thread that if one believed in a god they WERE religious?

No, Amanda. I said, in that other thread:

If you go to Church or temple or the Synagogue or mosque or any other official religious place, read the Bible or someother religious text, pray to Jesus and His Father in Heaven or Mohammed or Yaweh or godhead who has particular religious ways in which you are supposed to behave, you are religious because you practice an official religion. You may also be spiritual.

If you don't go to Church or temple or whatever, don't read the Bible or Quran or whatever, don't pray to Jesus or God or whomever, but believe in a nameless higher power or no higher power at all, yet don't follow an organized religion, don't read an official religious text and in no way are associatred with a "RELIGION" then you are not religious. Get it?

One can be spiritual without being religious.

Hope that clears that up for ya!

 

[KittenKoder]

Einstein himself said "Science without theology is blind, and theology without science is crippled".

Ah, but Einstein wasn't a Christian, he was Jewish, and not even really that. He believed in a higher power which he called "god", but he wasn't religious.

Uh oh...

Didn't you just say in another thread that if one believed in a god they WERE religious?

I often see the word "religious" misused a lot. Not saying you are wrong for pointing it out, but most people forget what it means. You can believe in a god and not be religious or be religious and not believe in a god. The word itself is a behavior, not the presence of belief. Einstein wasn't religious, but he did believe in a higher power and being raised Jewish doesn't mean they practice it. So this particular statement is correct. Religious people practice whatever belief based rituals and rites to the best of their ability. I know some atheists who are religious even (though rare, "lucky charms" are a ritual to).

Added: Religion is a set of religious rituals and rites.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

You said you didn't have to provide proof of your assertion because it was what many believed. But what many believe doesn't equal truth. So unless you want to pony up some examples of my homophobic statements you need to take back what you said because it isn't true.

Alright, but you asked for it:

Here are some quote where you equate homosexual urges to horrible acts:

If we want to say any urge we get is natural and normal and should be honored then by all means homosexuality is a great and wonderful thing. So is binge eating and armed robbery. So are many, many other things, some good some bad. This is how animals live. Hungry? Eat whatever isn't faster than you. Need to poop? This looks like a nice spot. Got the urge to fuck? Find a partner!

But is this really how people should live?

I don't think so. I think that people should be more principled than animals. I don't think that God gave us brains so that we could only use them to satisfy our desires.

I'm saying they could. We expect pedophiles to controls theirs. We expect the homicidally violent to control theirs. It's all well and good to say, yeah but it's a powerful urge, but there are many powerful urges.

This is a quote about what you think about homosexual activity:

For me, I don't think it's the right choice. In my perfect world they would abstain.

Homo couples, for whatever reason, often seem to want to change the world, to make what they do acceptable, or whatever... I don't like the direction that takes us in. Maybe it's a selfish view, but I don't think the world is a better place for embracing homosexuality. While I can accept that it happens, and I can accept that some people enjoy it, I don't have to like it, and I don't think it makes the world a better place to have it be mainstream.

Do you want me to keep going?

 

[YWN666]

I'm some kind of christian, and I don't strongly disagree with science or distrust scientists.

Now what can we argue about?

You don't fit the description mentioned above in the OP, which was my opinion. I wrote, TEND TO, a lot to try and demonstrate that not ALL Christians are this way.

Why do you think that many Christians do tend to discredit science's methods and distrust scientists?

Probably for the same reason that science worshippers try to discredit religion.

Science doesn't really give a shit about religion UNLESS religion is trying to force itself into a place it does not belong, like a science class, and then science has the right to pick apart the religious assertions to show that it doesn't belong there.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

CMM, granted, Einstein was not Christian, but, the very fact that he DID have a belief in a Higher Power does not make his statement any less true.

Personally? I think that people like Einstein, Stephen Hawking (I hope he gets better soon), as well as many other great men of science actually talked to God.

Sounds like Professor Hawking is going to pull through. I don't think he prayed, though, at least not to God (capital 'G') because he was a self-proclaimed atheist.

Read the book "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" sometime by Gary Zukav. Kinda interesting how it explains spirituality via physics. Good read by the way.....the first 70 pages are pretty heavy duty math, but, once you get through that part, it's a fascinating read.

I have read it and it sits in my library at home. It was good, but then I moved up to Brian Greene because his books were written in the last 10 years and incorporate new discoveries and theories (like Super String Theory) and he discusses the merits of each. Try his books: The Elegant Universe and The Fabric of the Cosmos. Not a lot of math but really well explained abstract quantum and astronomical physics concepts.

I look at it this way........a person who uses only science to explain the world, generally ends up creating some pretty bad things. Military hardware and the atomic weapon are an example of this.

I don't think its fair to lay the responsibility of the atomic bomb at the feet of purely scientific people, especially since Einstein helped to create it. And just remember, it was the so-called Christian-values-based US government who developed the atomic bomb, and who creates a market for weapons. I think many non-religious people would have too much of a moral issue to be directly involved with weapons development.

From my experience, I would guess that most conscientious objectors aren't religious. I could be wrong, and it is totally speculation, but I don't even begin to know where one would find evidence to support that claim.

And, if you're interested at all in how that kind of perception of the Universe can lead a person to a different kind of spirituality, do some research on Humanism, or Naturalism. These are philosophies much like Buddhism, based entirely on observable phenomena and the scientific method. Very, in my opinion, humane philosophies. And, one can be a humanist and a Christian.

A person who only uses theology to explain the world will know very little about how things work, as whenever they see something unusual, all they will say is "God did it", and not bother to inquire farther.

I can see that!

But.......God doesn't really want that. What I believe He wants (as referenced in the story of Abraham), is for us to look around at the whole world (like Abraham), so that we can see where He is in this world (much like Abraham), so that we too can know Him as Abraham did.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it Christians.

Hear! Hear! If only more Christians were like you ABikerSailor, I wouldn't be so bitter toward them. I know, I know, my bitterness is my own responsibility... I'm just sayin'.

 

[Amanda]

You said you didn't have to provide proof of your assertion because it was what many believed. But what many believe doesn't equal truth. So unless you want to pony up some examples of my homophobic statements you need to take back what you said because it isn't true.

Alright, but you asked for it:

Here are some quote where you equate homosexual urges to horrible acts:

If we want to say any urge we get is natural and normal and should be honored then by all means homosexuality is a great and wonderful thing. So is binge eating and armed robbery. So are many, many other things, some good some bad. This is how animals live. Hungry? Eat whatever isn't faster than you. Need to poop? This looks like a nice spot. Got the urge to fuck? Find a partner!

But is this really how people should live?

I don't think so. I think that people should be more principled than animals. I don't think that God gave us brains so that we could only use them to satisfy our desires.

This is a quote about what you think about homosexual activity:

For me, I don't think it's the right choice. In my perfect world they would abstain.

Homo couples, for whatever reason, often seem to want to change the world, to make what they do acceptable, or whatever... I don't like the direction that takes us in. Maybe it's a selfish view, but I don't think the world is a better place for embracing homosexuality. While I can accept that it happens, and I can accept that some people enjoy it, I don't have to like it, and I don't think it makes the world a better place to have it be mainstream.

Do you want me to keep going?

Sure, if you think you can find anything that supports what you asserted.

None of those examples shows hate. I don't even have to think hard about whether I did or didn't post something hateful because I know I don't hate. Wishing something wasn't does not equal hate. Hoping things will change does not equal hate. Wishing people would behave differently is not hate. In the first example, I just gave other examples of behaviors that I think most people aren't ok with as a way of illustrating a point. But even in the case of murders I don't hate them. If you want to make your point, and I don't think you can, I think you need to show where I've made statements that homosexuality should be criminalized, or prosecuted, or similar. I never have, because I don't believe that. I'm in favor of ALL people having EQUAL rights. That is something I've always said and it flys right in the face of what you're trying to make others think of me.

The fact is, I've known far more cons than libs that really, really want equality for all. Libs seem to often be in favor of adjusting behavior to get a desired result. Wouldn't it be great if no one were ever discriminated against? Yes, of course. But you can't legislate that. We've seen this time and time again. Look to the excellent example of the prohibition period. You just can't make laws to change people. I think what homosexuals need to do, if equality is truly their goal, is to assimilate into society, not have parades where people walk around trying to shock the straights. It's counter-productive, just like PETA's tactics. Good causes can easily be undermined by an offensive approach, and that's my biggest beef with the gay agenda. I don't have to love love love what you do to accept you, but nothing less seems to be acceptable to the homosexual political agenda.

Hell, I've even posted that I've had some homosexual experiences, and I can assure you that while I have regrets about things I've done, I do NOT hate myself.

 

[YWN666]

Hell, I've even posted that I've had some homosexual experiences, and I can assure you that while I have regrets about things I've done, I do NOT hate myself.

You were just trying to get a free toaster, right???

 

[Coloradomtnman]

You said you didn't have to provide proof of your assertion because it was what many believed. But what many believe doesn't equal truth. So unless you want to pony up some examples of my homophobic statements you need to take back what you said because it isn't true.

Homo couples, for whatever reason, often seem to want to change the world, to make what they do acceptable, or whatever... I don't like the direction that takes us in. Maybe it's a selfish view, but I don't think the world is a better place for embracing homosexuality. While I can accept that it happens, and I can accept that some people enjoy it, I don't have to like it, and I don't think it makes the world a better place to have it be mainstream.

Do you want me to keep going?

Sure, if you think you can find anything that supports what you asserted.

None of those examples shows hate.

It wasn't hate I was looking for, it was homophobia. And having homosexual experiences, doesn't make one not a homophobe.

I don't even have to think hard about whether I did or didn't post something hateful because I know I don't hate. Wishing something wasn't does not equal hate. Hoping things will change does not equal hate. Wishing people would behave differently is not hate. In the first example, I just gave other examples of behaviors that I think most people aren't ok with as a way of illustrating a point. But even in the case of murders I don't hate them. If you want to make your point, and I don't think you can, I think you need to show where I've made statements that homosexuality should be criminalized, or prosecuted, or similar. I never have, because I don't believe that. I'm in favor of ALL people having EQUAL rights. That is something I've always said and it flys right in the face of what you're trying to make others think of me.

The fact is, I've known far more cons than libs that really, really want equality for all. Libs seem to often be in favor of adjusting behavior to get a desired result. Wouldn't it be great if no one were ever discriminated against? Yes, of course. But you can't legislate that. We've seen this time and time again. Look to the excellent example of the prohibition period. You just can't make laws to change people. I think what homosexuals need to do, if equality is truly their goal, is to assimilate into society, not have parades where people walk around trying to shock the straights. It's counter-productive, just like PETA's tactics. Good causes can easily be undermined by an offensive approach, and that's my biggest beef with the gay agenda. I don't have to love love love what you do to accept you, but nothing less seems to be acceptable to the homosexual political agenda.

Hell, I've even posted that I've had some homosexual experiences, and I can assure you that while I have regrets about things I've done, I do NOT hate myself.

Nice try to slip by, but I'm afraid I got your ass with those quotes, my dear. Accept that you are wrong, and do it with the grace I know you have. You'll look far less like a fool if you do.

 

[Amanda]

Do you want me to keep going?

Sure, if you think you can find anything that supports what you asserted.



It wasn't hate I was looking for, it was homophobia. And having homosexual experiences, doesn't make one not a homophobe.

I don't even have to think hard about whether I did or didn't post something hateful because I know I don't hate. Wishing something wasn't does not equal hate. Hoping things will change does not equal hate. Wishing people would behave differently is not hate. In the first example, I just gave other examples of behaviors that I think most people aren't ok with as a way of illustrating a point. But even in the case of murders I don't hate them. If you want to make your point, and I don't think you can, I think you need to show where I've made statements that homosexuality should be criminalized, or prosecuted, or similar. I never have, because I don't believe that. I'm in favor of ALL people having EQUAL rights. That is something I've always said and it flys right in the face of what you're trying to make others think of me.

The fact is, I've known far more cons than libs that really, really want equality for all. Libs seem to often be in favor of adjusting behavior to get a desired result. Wouldn't it be great if no one were ever discriminated against? Yes, of course. But you can't legislate that. We've seen this time and time again. Look to the excellent example of the prohibition period. You just can't make laws to change people. I think what homosexuals need to do, if equality is truly their goal, is to assimilate into society, not have parades where people walk around trying to shock the straights. It's counter-productive, just like PETA's tactics. Good causes can easily be undermined by an offensive approach, and that's my biggest beef with the gay agenda. I don't have to love love love what you do to accept you, but nothing less seems to be acceptable to the homosexual political agenda.

Hell, I've even posted that I've had some homosexual experiences, and I can assure you that while I have regrets about things I've done, I do NOT hate myself.

Nice try to slip by, but I'm afraid I got your ass with those quotes, my dear. Accept that you are wrong, and do it with the grace I know you have. You'll look far less like a fool if you do.

Talk about an attempt to "slip by". And what's with the degrading to women: my dear? I'm not your dear. And it's condescending to speak to me that way.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Talk about an attempt to "slip by".

To what attempt to slip by are you referring?

And what's with the degrading to women: my dear? I'm not your dear. And it's condescending to speak to me that way.

You can try to side-step all you like by somehow attempting to discredit me (and "my dear" is hardly degrading to women, I thought that I would attempt to take the sting out of you being caught in your own argument, but that's gratitude for ya!), but its just making you look worse and worse, especially when you play the victim, the very type of person you complain about whining to the nanny state to wipe their butts for them.

My admiration and respect for you is quickly dissipating with this kind of behavior.

 

[del]

All Christians dislike science, because logic is the antithesis of faith.

no offense, but that's really stupid.

It's not as stupid as it is logical.

a flawed syllogism is as stupid as it is logical.
congrats, you've achieved equilibrium.
i'll alert the media.