Why did Arafat turn down 97% of the W Bank and all of Gaza in 2000?

[Coyote]

that is the BUGABOO (spelling?) that makes my idea of gaza plus
a chunk of the SINAI more workable Historically ---that is very good land..
Gaza was ---in ancient times a self sustaining city----with lots of
agriculture ---it has POTENTIAL ---and when jews did YAMIT---
in sinai---it was very profitable and they can get lots of Mediterranean.

Time to be creative -----egypt should make the concession----it is
egypt that DID THE 1967 war-----it was actually EGYPT that kept
gaza down for 20 years and then made gaza and OCCUPIED land--
not that it was any better off when Egypt controlled things

Palestinians in the West Bank are culturally different than Palestinians in Gaza. Maybe the West Bank ought to be absorbed into Israel, with all inhabitents becoming Israeli citizens and Gaza and a chunk of the Sinai become a Palestinian state. It's a thought....

not a good thought----Israelis and the people of the west bank are a lot more DIFFERENT
-----from each other than are west bank arabs and gazans. Israel cannot accomodate
even the arabs who are already Israeli citizens----too much tension- It is like muslims
in India

Then you likely need to create two different countries.

 

[Coyote]

that is the BUGABOO (spelling?) that makes my idea of gaza plus
a chunk of the SINAI more workable Historically ---that is very good land..
Gaza was ---in ancient times a self sustaining city----with lots of
agriculture ---it has POTENTIAL ---and when jews did YAMIT---
in sinai---it was very profitable and they can get lots of Mediterranean.

Time to be creative -----egypt should make the concession----it is
egypt that DID THE 1967 war-----it was actually EGYPT that kept
gaza down for 20 years and then made gaza and OCCUPIED land--
not that it was any better off when Egypt controlled things

Palestinians in the West Bank are culturally different than Palestinians in Gaza. Maybe the West Bank ought to be absorbed into Israel, with all inhabitents becoming Israeli citizens and Gaza and a chunk of the Sinai become a Palestinian state. It's a thought....

not a good thought----Israelis and the people of the west bank are a lot more DIFFERENT
-----from each other than are west bank arabs and gazans. Israel cannot accomodate
even the arabs who are already Israeli citizens----too much tension- It is like muslims in India

Actually...that was what I was thinking of to a degree. The partition of India was ignorant and tragic - typical colonial mentality. They took Bengal and carved it based solely on religious lines - ignoring the fact that Muslim Bengal - in education, language and culture had far more in common with Hindi Bengal then it ever did with the tribal and mountainous regions that became Pakistan. It is these kind of artificial divisions that make me wonder if West Bank might not assimilate into Israel rather than with Gaza.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is too fragmented here. I don't understand.

The UN gave no land to Israel.

I am completely lost now. I thought Israel was formed under a UN mandate? or was it an English one?

Interesting. Where did you get that impression?

(QUESTION)

Who is claiming what here? What is it that is being said?

v/r
R

 

[High_Gravity]

Arafat ( also Abbas ) is demanding a pathway inside Israel connecting the W. Bank and Gaza with the Palestinians having total control. Why are they entitled to ANY land inside Israel? What " offers" were made by Abbas or Arafat for a piece of Israel's land?

that is the BUGABOO (spelling?) that makes my idea of gaza plus
a chunk of the SINAI more workable Historically ---that is very good land..
Gaza was ---in ancient times a self sustaining city----with lots of
agriculture ---it has POTENTIAL ---and when jews did YAMIT---
in sinai---it was very profitable and they can get lots of Mediterranean.

Time to be creative -----egypt should make the concession----it is
egypt that DID THE 1967 war-----it was actually EGYPT that kept
gaza down for 20 years and then made gaza and OCCUPIED land--
not that it was any better off when Egypt controlled things

Palestinians in the West Bank are culturally different than Palestinians in Gaza. Maybe the West Bank ought to be absorbed into Israel, with all inhabitents becoming Israeli citizens and Gaza and a chunk of the Sinai become a Palestinian state. It's a thought....

If the West Bank gets absorbed into Israel won't that just bring out more war cries about occupation and what not?

 

[irosie91]

Coyote---I agree with up to the point of UNIFYING EAST AND WEST BENGAL---
forget it it won't work the hindus and muslims of bengal really do hate
each other language, culture and cuisine notwithstanding


the partition of india was tragic----but it could not be unified either ------I predict it
will break up even more-----something will happen with PUNJAB----kashmir etc---but
I do not believe that east and west bengal will get together. I absolutely do not believe
that the arabs of the west bank are all the different from the arabs of gaza-----a problem
may be that the arabs of gaza are better educated----I think. not sure. of course
there are all sorts of other little ----PROPENSITIES---- a part of the west bank could be attached to jordan----if some arab muslims there feel particularly bedouin There is
always syria------and Lebanon for GROUPING purposes Maybe syria will have to be
partitioned to get the ALAWITES of the backs of whosever backs they are on

then there is the issue of the christians

 

[Coyote]

In other words, a grand mess....

 

[proudveteran06]

What right does Israel have to demand Israeli-controlled roads through Palestinian lands?


The Palestinians are demanding control within the alledged " 67 Borders" which is supposed to be Israel. So, my question is; What right does Abbas have to demand any of Israel's land?

This isn't even a question of " occupation" since they obviously didn't have it before 1967.

 

[fairandbalanced]

Tinydancer:
I'd really like to know what posters think about this historic and bewildering event that took place. I still don't get it. It was all handed to him on a silver platter and he refused to form a Palestinian State.
***
Arabs don't generally make a deal without bargaining. They feel cheated if pay the asking price in full, and nothing like a discount satisfies them. Clinton should have started from say, 85% of the territories, and then Arafat would probably say, no, 90% and they could meet somewhere in the middle like 87.5%

 

[Sunni Man]

At the failed Camp David summit, Arafat was clearly ambushed by Clinton and Barak, when both presented him a deal that was much more favorable to Israel than to Palestine.

Because of domestic U.S. political reasons, a sitting U.S. president could never propose a deal that is unfavorable to Israel. What was fundamentally wrong at Camp David that Arafat was negotiating in miles while Barak was negotiating in inches.

Arafat was presented with "a take it or leave it deal" either Palestinians had to give up their claims to most of East Jerusalem and forfeit their Right of Return, and in return Palestinians would "gain" a non-contiguous state on parts of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, or the whole Clinton-Barak offer had to be rejected outright; which he did.

Why did Arafat reject Barak's 'generous' offer at Camp David?, 416

 

[proudveteran06]

At the failed Camp David summit, Arafat was clearly ambushed by Clinton and Barak, when both presented him a deal that was much more favorable to Israel than to Palestine.

Because of domestic U.S. political reasons, a sitting U.S. president could never propose a deal that is unfavorable to Israel. What was fundamentally wrong at Camp David that Arafat was negotiating in miles while Barak was negotiating in inches.

Arafat was presented with "a take it or leave it deal" either Palestinians had to give up their claims to most of East Jerusalem and forfeit their Right of Return, and in return Palestinians would "gain" a non-contiguous state on parts of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, or the whole Clinton-Barak offer had to be rejected outright; which he did.

Why did Arafat reject Barak's 'generous' offer at Camp David?, 416

" Right of Return" is dead. That is never going to happen. Olmert proposed sharing E. Jerusalem but making it the Capital of " Palestine" E. Jerusalem has Israel's Most Religious Sites.

 

[Sunni Man]

"Right od Return" is going to happen one way or the other..........

 

[toastman]

"Right od Return" is going to happen one way or the other..........

True, but only in your Muslim Jihadist dreams

 

[ima]

"Right od Return" is going to happen one way or the other..........

Da rit OD retoorn? Aw sheet Mo, ya gonna make us?

 

[ima]

At the failed Camp David summit, Arafat was clearly ambushed by Clinton and Barak, when both presented him a deal that was much more favorable to Israel than to Palestine.

Because of domestic U.S. political reasons, a sitting U.S. president could never propose a deal that is unfavorable to Israel. What was fundamentally wrong at Camp David that Arafat was negotiating in miles while Barak was negotiating in inches.

Arafat was presented with "a take it or leave it deal" either Palestinians had to give up their claims to most of East Jerusalem and forfeit their Right of Return, and in return Palestinians would "gain" a non-contiguous state on parts of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, or the whole Clinton-Barak offer had to be rejected outright; which he did.

Why did Arafat reject Barak's 'generous' offer at Camp David?, 416

I thought it was because Arafat had AIDS. he get that from a muslim?

 

[proudveteran06]

"Right od Return" is going to happen one way or the other..........

No, it's not. As much as the Arab States would like it to happen they're not pushing for it. Neither is the U.N. As much as Obama might be trying to " push" Israel he has stated on many occasions he does not support " Right of Return"

I want Abbas to insist on it. For that reason alone there will never be an official " Palestinian State"

 

[Sunni Man]

As much as Obama might be trying to " push" Israel he has stated on many occasions he does not support " Right of Return"

So you believe Obama??..........

Never figured you to be an Obamabot........

 

[Jroc]

As much as Obama might be trying to " push" Israel he has stated on many occasions he does not support " Right of Return"

So you believe Obama??..........

Never figured you to be an Obamabot........

That's why I am encouraging everyone to vote for Obama.

After he wins in 2012

He is going to hold Israel's Zionist feet to the fire and force them to change.

And he will have 4 nice long years to do it.

Obama's second term is going to be great for America.

Israel..................not so much

 

[Jroc]

I'd really like to know what posters think about this historic and bewildering event that took place. I still don't get it. It was all handed to him on a silver platter and he refused to form a Palestinian State.

Thats easy....

 

[pbel]

I'd really like to know what posters think about this historic and bewildering event that took place. I still don't get it. It was all handed to him on a silver platter and he refused to form a Palestinian State.

Supposedly he did it it out of fear. Fear that he would be killed by his buddies. He wanted to die a natural death from AIDS. He was a sly ol' devil.

I guess the 3% he wasn't offered was the sovereignty of the Mosque on the mount which would have assured his assasination with his partner in peace who was shot in the back, PM Rabin...bet Mossad was involved...

 

[Coyote]

"Right od Return" is going to happen one way or the other..........

No, it's not. As much as the Arab States would like it to happen they're not pushing for it. Neither is the U.N. As much as Obama might be trying to " push" Israel he has stated on many occasions he does not support " Right of Return"

I want Abbas to insist on it. For that reason alone there will never be an official " Palestinian State"

The Right of Return is not a realistic option - it would be demographic suicide for Israel. I think that is one of the points Abbas will have to give in on, but Israel could offer reparations.