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ajwps said:You are right of course. In Israel there are people of all faiths including atheists and agnostics living in the land of the Jewish people. All have the same rights to live, work, worship, not worship, vote and have positions in the government of Israel.
This right does not apply to mass murderers and baby killers wanting to murder the peaceful citizens of Israel.
wade said:Ummm... you should look into the way Israeli moslims (citizens) are treated. Israel has no anti-discrimination policies. Israeli arabs are denied housing, jobs, and other freedoms available to Israeli jews on a consistant basis.
ajwps said:Define Israeli Muslims for me.
The Arabs who have Israeli citizenship are not denied anything including homes, jobs, freedom to worship and live their lives like every Israeli on a constant basis.
Arabs who choose to blow up their children or hide behind their children when they ambush Israelis are NOT ENTITLED TO ANY RIGHTS IN ISRAEL.
At this very moment, terrorist Muslims living in America are entitled to imprisonment or exile.
Is that constant enough for you?
wade said:I'm talking about Arabs who are Israeli citizens. Those who chose to stay in Israel from the beginning and accept Israeli citizenship. Israeli Jews will not rent to them, and will generally not give them skilled jobs (they will hire them for relatively unskilled jobs).Clear?
Zhukov said:
ajwps said:You seem to know something no one in the world is aware of at this time. Israeli Arabs who chose to not run away when the Arab armies attacked Israel hold Israeli citizenship papers, own businesses, have high paying jobs, teach at Israeli universities, vote in every election and currently hold seats in the Israeli Kinesset (government).
I have been in Israel many times and find this to be fact. Where in the world did you get that misinformation? Do you read the Arab sites often?
Said1 said:Are non-jewish Israeli's in the West Bank given the same treatment? I was under the impression they were not citizens, but residents? Or is that basically the same thing?
Arab MKs Cut Sharons Majority
Arab Knesset members surprise opposition to Prime Minister Ariel Sharons Gaza Withdrawal plan reduces support in the Knesset for his disengagement.
Arab Knesset members surprise opposition to Prime Minister Ariel Sharons disengagement plan reduces his support to 67 MKs, only seven more than a majority of the parliaments 120 members.
The three Arab-Israeli parties have eight seats in the Knesset. The three-member Hadash-TaAl party, headed by Ahmed Tibi, said it is opposed to the plan because it would deepen Israeli occupation in the West Bank and does not include a total withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from the Gaza Strip.
The Arab Balad party, which also has three mandates, has voiced similar opposition, leaving only the two members of the Arab Communist party in favor of the plan which calls for the tearing down of 21 Jewish communities in Gush Katif and four more in northern Samaria.
Its leader, Abdulmalik Dehamshe, stated he would support Sharon because he wont raise my hand in opposition to an end to the occupation.
Sharons support may change as pressure mounts towards the proposed vote next week. More defections from his own Likud party or opposition from left wing parties, which have criticized the plan, could narrow the majority and severely weaken the Prime Ministers ability to carry out his proposal.
ajwps said:Non-Jewish Israeli's in Israel (including West Bank, Gaza and Samaria) are currently entitled to the same rights as all Israeli citizens.
If the leftists, peaceniks and Sharon have their way, then all Jewish and non-Jewish citizens of the West Bank are scheduled to be uprooted from their homes and businesses so that the Arabs can occupy Israel. I wouldn't count on this event occurring.
The following article today illustrates that even the Arab members of Israeli Parliment (Kinesset) are voting against the Sharon disengagement.
ajwps said:You seem to know something no one in the world is aware of at this time. Israeli Arabs who chose to not run away when the Arab armies attacked Israel hold Israeli citizenship papers, own businesses, have high paying jobs, teach at Israeli universities, vote in every election and currently hold seats in the Israeli Kinesset (government).
I have been in Israel many times and find this to be fact. Where in the world did you get that misinformation? Do you read the Arab sites often?
YoungChristian said:I don't know how people can be too smart to be religious.. Personally, the smartest people I know all have religious backgrounds of some kind that they believe in. Humans don't have and can't produce all the answers. Therefore, religion will never lose its purpose because people can not explain everything no matter how hard they try.
wade said:Yep - and better a fantasy explanation than no explanation - right?
Avatar4321 said:You know, coming from someone who believes in communism, im not sure you have any place whining about fantasies.
wade said:I believe in communism, it does exist. But I do not favor or support it as a means of governance. Arguing a point is different from believing in it.
Zhukov said:I accept 'tolerance' as "the capacity to endure hardship or pain."
at worst....
"Leeway for variation from a standard"
...at best.
Ultimately the point is the ability to ignore.
Over time the Christians have decided they are willing to ignore the behavior of homosexuals so long as their conduct is private.
Private.
It is quite another thing to say, for them, that guys can 'marry' guys, women women, that they will quietly nod their heads, and gay people can be sexual promiscous in public society because to deny them would be discriminatory.
They will not.
Marriage is definitional, and never in human history has that definition included people of the same gender marrying, because two people of the same gender marrying is ridiculous. Marriage is for the production and care of children. It is a societal construct, not a result of selfish whim.
Very few on the christian conservative right object to the allowance of insurance benefits, hospital visitations, and inheritance for homosexuals. In fact I think these things have precedence in law, quite absent an undemocratic and court imposed ruling for same-sex marriage.
It is only a matter of tradition and respect.
Once you understand that you see where the real intolerance and disrespect is.
You should see how the Arab media portrays the situation. They cite things like being denied cooking oil and other basic necessities, I guess this is why they keep mentioning humiliation. Im not saying their media is balance and fair. But you can see the reasoning behind some of the hatred.wade said:There was a BBC documentary and a US documentary (CBS, NBC, or ABC) which aired within the last year. They showed, amoung other things, how Israeli Jews were systematically driving the Israeli Arabs into more and more limited, lower class housing, by simply refusing to rent to them. They showed how Israeli Arabs earn about 60% what Israeli Jews earn for the same identical work. They showed how the Israeli law does nothing to prevent such discrimination.
wade said:There was a BBC documentary and a US documentary (CBS, NBC, or ABC) which aired within the last year. They showed, amoung other things, how Israeli Jews were systematically driving the Israeli Arabs into more and more limited, lower class housing, by simply refusing to rent to them. They showed how Israeli Arabs earn about 60% what Israeli Jews earn for the same identical work. They showed how the Israeli law does nothing to prevent such discrimination. I guess I'll have to look up some websites on the topic.
Israeli Arab Woman Apprehended Weapons Distributor in Custody
Oct 19, 2004
(IsraelNN.com) An Israeli Arab female was arrested ten days ago in a rented Tel Aviv apartment in connection to a robbery in A-Ram, on Jerusalems northern border. Security authorities have since learned she is linked to transferring funds to families of suicide bombers, as well as distributing weapons and ammunition throughout Judea and Samaria.
During her interrogation, the female admitted to her involvement in a major robbery in A-Ram, as well as admitting to planning a suicide bombing attack inside pre-1967 Green Line Israel. She explained her movements are not restricted as are those of PA residents since she has an Israeli identity card. After meeting a terrorist to receive the bomb belt, she had second thoughts about the attack. She also admitted that during the past two months, she transported a large quantity of weapons from Shechem to terrorists in Judea and Samaria.
She added her actions were motivated to atone for the fact that her father is an informant for Israel Police in the Ramle area.
White knight said:Actually all media is biased according to it source and targeted audience.
Just watch a few international news programs, you will see.
