Who should get a tax cut? You vote.

[mudwhistle]

Talking about taxation theoretically really doesn't help us understand the problem.

We have outstanding bills, and we have ongoing bills to pay.

Current tax revenues does not pay today's bills, and contrary to the current mythology, cutting taxes hasn't increased revenues, either.

We either cut spending and/or raise taxes, Or we can continue borrowing to cover our annual deficits.

Those are our choices, folks. Those really are our only three choices.

In 2010 we had a $1.556 Trillion deficit.

If we want to talk about cutting spending, we need to find that amount to cut from the budget just to pay for the 2010 shortfall.

Okay, fiscal conservatives, tell us exactly what you'd cut to deal with just ourt 2010 $1.556 trillion deficit.

It would help your credibility if you included the amounts that would be cut, too.

Your goal is to cut 1,556 BILLION dollars from the ANNUAL budget.

If you believe that we ought to raise taxes, then your task is to decide WHO TO TAX to find that amount.

Good luck.

Before the Dems took over spending wasn't nearly the problem it is today. We wouldn't be having this debate if it weren't for them spending us into this mess. The deficit was shrinking and was only $169 billion. Now it's in the trillions. The Dems intentionally spent us into a state that is forcing an increase in the tax-code.

Spending is the problem.

Try to understand why.


What's the best way to solve a problem?

That's easy....first you identify the problem and identify it's causes.....then go from there. I constantly see folks ignoring the causes. But it's not too late. We can cut off all of the new programs Obama and the Dems pushed down our throats and much of the problem evaporates. The rest is just a matter of investigating, levying fines and punishments for all of the cash that was sent to unions, foreign banks, and foreign oil producers.

Maybe we could at least begin to shrink the debt after doing all of that.

Then we can think about raising taxes.....but not until then.

 

[editec]

Talking about taxation theoretically really doesn't help us understand the problem.

We have outstanding bills, and we have ongoing bills to pay.

Current tax revenues does not pay today's bills, and contrary to the current mythology, cutting taxes hasn't increased revenues, either.

We either cut spending and/or raise taxes, Or we can continue borrowing to cover our annual deficits.

Those are our choices, folks. Those really are our only three choices.

In 2010 we had a $1.556 Trillion deficit.

If we want to talk about cutting spending, we need to find that amount to cut from the budget just to pay for the 2010 shortfall.

Okay, fiscal conservatives, tell us exactly what you'd cut to deal with just ourt 2010 $1.556 trillion deficit.

It would help your credibility if you included the amounts that would be cut, too.

Your goal is to cut 1,556 BILLION dollars from the ANNUAL budget.

If you believe that we ought to raise taxes, then your task is to decide WHO TO TAX to find that amount.

Good luck.

Before the Dems took over spending wasn't nearly the problem it is today. We wouldn't be having this debate if it weren't for them spending us into this mess. The deficit was shrinking and was only $169 billion. Now it's in the trillions. The Dems intentionally spent us into a state that is forcing an increase in the tax-code.

Spending is the problem.

Try to understand why.


What's the best way to solve a problem?

That's easy....first you identify the problem and identify it's causes.....then go from there. I constantly see folks ignoring the causes. But it's not too late. We can cut off all of the new programs Obama and the Dems pushed down our throats and much of the problem evaporates. The rest is just a matter of investigating, levying fines and punishments for all of the cash that was sent to unions, foreign banks, and foreign oil producers.

Maybe we could at least begin to shrink the debt after doing all of that.

Then we can think about raising taxes.....but not until then.

Yeah yeah yeah, okay it's all the dems fault, okay?

Satisfied?

Now answer the fucking question.

What are you going to cut to get that $1.5 trillion dollar out of the government spending.

Be specific.

Where do the cuts happen?

 

[kyzr]

Yeah yeah yeah, okay it's all the dems fault, okay? Satisfied?

Now answer the fucking question.

What are you going to cut to get that $1.5 trillion dollar out of the government spending.

Be specific.

Where do the cuts happen?

Lets start at the Deficit Commission's recommendations. I support those as a good start.

 

[mdn2000]

What another moronic thread, who deserves a tax cut, as soon as you ask the question of yourself you have fallen into the liberal/chomsky linguistic psycho trick.

You cannot debate a canard, a false premise.

Not one citizen should be taxed as an individual, this was not in the constitution for a reason.

Americans deserve elimination of taxes, not a tax cut of one tax of the dozens we pay.

I went to the store and bought a few items,

Taxed on the bottle the water came in.
Taxed on my alcohol, the price which includes a hidden tax.
Taxed 8.5% on my non food items.
Taxed by the state for my gas
Taxed by the fed for that same gas
Taxed yearly for the car I drove to the store

Taxed 7.5% on each dollar paid to me, before I get it, to pay for Social Security,
Taxed 7.5% on each dollar paid to me when I get it, for Social Security
Taxed 33% on each dollar paid to me, taxed by the federal government
Taxed 20% on each dollar paid to me, taxed by california

Taxed for Medicare, small but still another tax
Taxed for Calmed, california medical insurance
Taxed for Unemployment

Taxed on my home, as much as or more than 10% on the dollar I make.
Taxed using the phone.

Even though each dollar I receive has been taxed multiple times when I get, and after I gather the change to make another dollar, that dollar made up of my change is taxed again the same way, when a rich person who owns McDonalds sells me a hamburger

Who deserves a tax cut, not the person who started this thread,

Who deserves a tax cut, not those who think those who make more should pay more tax than they.

Nobody deserves a tax cut, we deserve all taxes and fees or anything else they decide to call taxation to be eliminated.

And this is not, "deserve", its a right defined in the constitution, I have a right not to be taxed.

I was leaning toward thinking like you but the fact is the Constitution does give Congress the right to tax us.

It's up to us to assure that we don't elect a Congress that only wants to raise them every chance they get.

Congress amended the Constitution to allow tax of private individuals. The Constitution is specific, maybe another time I will post the relevant article or amendment.

 

[antagon]

Talking about taxation theoretically really doesn't help us understand the problem.

We have outstanding bills, and we have ongoing bills to pay.

Current tax revenues does not pay today's bills, and contrary to the current mythology, cutting taxes hasn't increased revenues, either.

We either cut spending and/or raise taxes, Or we can continue borrowing to cover our annual deficits.

Those are our choices, folks. Those really are our only three choices.

In 2010 we had a $1.556 Trillion deficit.

If we want to talk about cutting spending, we need to find that amount to cut from the budget just to pay for the 2010 shortfall.

Okay, fiscal conservatives, tell us exactly what you'd cut to deal with just ourt 2010 $1.556 trillion deficit.

It would help your credibility if you included the amounts that would be cut, too.

Your goal is to cut 1,556 BILLION dollars from the ANNUAL budget.

If you believe that we ought to raise taxes, then your task is to decide WHO TO TAX to find that amount.

Good luck.

mentioning JMKeynes can start a fight around here, but i see brilliance in cyclical contraction and expansion of the deficit and surplus. on that basis, i would argue that that $1.5T should have come from a number of years prior and proceeding this stimulus phase, where the government could have taken a surplus, but engineered many policies not to do so. i dont even believe that this is possible in our democracy as it stands. there's some kind of wagners law implication which draws in right and left-leaning policy to perpetually create deficits. i say that this is remedied with a constitution-level budget facility which determines the nation's expenditure quantitatively, and leaves the congress with only the qualitative recourse.

tax is important here, because the congress' recourse to taxation will be their only budget expansion facility, since they would be isolated from the right to spend into the red at their pleasure. it should drive innovation in conservatism and tax policy as a result.

 

[antagon]

I was leaning toward thinking like you but the fact is the Constitution does give Congress the right to tax us.

It's up to us to assure that we don't elect a Congress that only wants to raise them every chance they get.

Congress amended the Constitution to allow tax of private individuals. The Constitution is specific, maybe another time I will post the relevant article or amendment.

the constitution says that for direct taxes (like income tax became), the taxes would have to be broken down state by state according to population. the 16th amendment exempted income tax from such, so that congress could organize it differently. less crudely.

"No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken"
​

however a broad rather than specific tax power is conveyed to the congress...

"The Congress shall have power To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"​

edit: that's from 1/9 and 1/8, respectively.

 

[antagon]

Just counting the tax threads, this is three

its bush tax-cut renewal time. it's also FY end for most folks - hence tax season. i'm in a better mood than the average december, tax-wise, but that's from crunching the numbers on how awful 2010 was for the pocketbook.