Who Seriously Still Thinks Bush A Conservative?

[Bonnie]

I really don't know where this "getting smoked in Iraq" is coming from. They say we are winning, me, I'm calling it right now, I say we won. There's going to be mopping up for awhile, that's the nature of a war where one side is just random people taking pot shots, but it's over. They can't win. We will begin drawing back forces spring '06. A quarter of a million Iraqi police and military will be more than capable of keeping things relatively under control.

The generals can't say it's going well, but I say it is. Around 2,000 dead, 15,000 wounded? I say, as detached as possible, that is acceptable. They couldn't possibly get away with saying that publically, but I can. Our losses are acceptable.

George Bush diffused a looming global catastrophe, postponed a civilizational war, and he did it losing only about 2,000 soldiers. That's pretty good in my book.

You just said what many don't have the guts to, but that really is it yes??

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Michelangelo's first of 4 that are attributed to him, the one the asshole took a sledge hammer to.

As for whoral, that is how I have always thought of him so I unconsiously spell his name that way, I don't really care about that hack.

Why am I not allowed to state my opinion on Van Gogh or Pocasso's crappy work, if it was done today it would be considered crap by the same know nothings that worship them. I don't "appreciate" rap either.

Why is it always the least talented dildoes that get the grants? Chimpanzees are more capable than these bullshit "artists" that only try to shock others in the name of art. I don't agree with closing museums either, I do think that the curators should be thrown out on their pompous asses when they hang garbage and try to pretend that the public just doesn't "see" what they do. They are as full of shit as the dimwits on Air America that claim everyone in the south are knuckle dragging, toothless, iliterate neo nazis and they are the progressives. Junk is junk, and it doesn't matter who created it.

Please nuc, teach me how to appreciate sophomoric art that I would have been ashamed to sign when I was 5 years old. :happy2:

Sorry nuc, I have opinions about something I have been involved in since I was 3 and really don't care what self proclaimed experts think. I may not be a great painter but I do know my way around a canvas and know what I respect, I respect people that are better at what i do than I am or at least as good, anything less bores me.

Not to be nitpicky, but I'd venture to say you don't "appreciate" the rap you've heard on the radio. There is plenty or rap or hip-hop that is definitely warranting of artistic merit, it's just never played. To say you don't "appreciate" rap because of what's on the radio or mtv is like saying you don't "appreciate" rock music because of Ashley Simpson. Good rap is poetry with rhythm. Pop-rap is a hallmark card with two lines that rhyme.

 

[Bonnie]

I don't like Picasso so I should have no opinion that I should share? How fascist! I don't like Georges Braque either, but then I simply don't like cubism. Why would that make my opinion less valuable than yours or myself less knowledgeable than yourself? What an elitist! I can spell Picasso so I am better than you?!

I tend to like Monet, and although I appreciate Picasso's brilliance I too don't share a passion for his work. I am also drawn to Caravaggio's work as well as Ruben's baroque art, Bernini as well. I guess I'm missing out because I don't see the brilliance of Maplethorpe?

 

[Zhukov]

You just said what many don't have the guts to, but that really is it yes??

I tend to think so.

As always, I think a little historical perspective will go a long way.

Fighting against imperialist fascist Islam is every bit as important today as fighting imperialist fascist Communism was when the Soviet Union was around. I would say it's more important.

How many did we lose in Korea fighting Communism. In Vietnam? In all the other actions all around the world, overt and covert? 90,000 between Korea and Vietnam, perhaps one or two thousand more here and there. And it took about 45 years.

Even so, it isn't about sheer numbers. It's about what we are willing to sacrifice to prevent what would otherwise happen. Considering what would otherwise happen, I'd be willing to sacrifice just about everything to insure that we are the last one's standing.

 

[sitarro]

To be fair, I realize that Van Gogh was more about his brushstrokes than his subject matter. You have to see the actual paintings to see that, photographs rarely do them justice.

I do like one thing about Picasso, his choice of dogs, he kept an Afghan Hound. I think the public's demands on him caused him to digress in style, his work was so sought after that he quit trying to do anything worthwhile and started playing with the public to see how how bad he could get and still be called a genius.

It reminds me of how the instructors in college would go on and on in taking apart a painting or a poem interpreting what the author or painter was thinking when they created their work. I always imagined the artist looking down from the great beyond shaking their head and saying this jerk doesn't have a clue. Woody Allen had a classic scene in "Annie Hall" that addressed that.

I have a friend who has been studying Picasso's work for the last few years and thinks that cubism was and is amazing and is trying to revive it in his work with ellipses and arcs. He is not a good technical painter and doesn't have the skill or the patience to learn so instead he is inventing a style that he can produce and then he gets indignant when nobody sees what he is trying to portray on canvas. Again, to be fair, I originally told him that he would not need to be a great painter to sell to the rich because they tend to buy stories that they can repeat to their friends rather than great work. The challenge is to become a story, most artist become one after they die and the sales people in galleries can elevate the creator into a master and genius. He has the advantage of being French, good looking and a good actor. He has been acting as a great master painter for so long now even he is believes it. He sold an awful painting the other day for 8,000 dollars(anyone that knows him sees how bad the work is, others don't). It is all an illusion, the gallery person told the buyer that he was an up and coming artist that is starting to get collected by serious collectors and a story was created. . . sold. What is amazing is he wasn't even happy with the 8 thousand dollar figure, he is saying it should have gone for 25,000.

The point is there are great technical painters along with musicians that are starving and may never get noticed but there are also the notalent hacks that use other means to get noticed and scam their way to success. Check out the covers of music magazines. They are filled with asswipes like emminem and fity cent that are posing pissed off like they have something to be mad at when in reality they have hit the lottery and should be jumping up and down and thanking the Lord for their incredible luck but that wouldn't work with the illusion, the story.

The jerk that got the grant to piss on the crucifix in a jar is nothing but that, a no-talent self promoter that talked some expert that he was a serious artist, that is what pisses people off, our tax dollars being used by scammers with the help of government experts.

Have I gotten far enough off of the subject of the thread yet. . . sorry.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

To be fair, I realize that Van Gogh was more about his brushstrokes than his subject matter. You have to see the actual paintings to see that, photographs rarely do them justice.

I do like one thing about Picasso, his choice of dogs, he kept an Afghan Hound. I think the public's demands on him caused him to digress in style, his work was so sought after that he quit trying to do anything worthwhile and started playing with the public to see how how bad he could get and still be called a genius.

It reminds me of how the instructors in college would go on and on in taking apart a painting or a poem interpreting what the author or painter was thinking when they created their work. I always imagined the artist looking down from the great beyond shaking their head and saying this jerk doesn't have a clue. Woody Allen had a classic scene in "Annie Hall" that addressed that.

I have a friend who has been studying Picasso's work for the last few years and thinks that cubism was and is amazing and is trying to revive it in his work with ellipses and arcs. He is not a good technical painter and doesn't have the skill or the patience to learn so instead he is inventing a style that he can produce and then he gets indignant when nobody sees what he is trying to portray on canvas. Again, to be fair, I originally told him that he would not need to be a great painter to sell to the rich because they tend to buy stories that they can repeat to their friends rather than great work. The challenge is to become a story, most artist become one after they die and the sales people in galleries can elevate the creator into a master and genius. He has the advantage of being French, good looking and a good actor. He has been acting as a great master painter for so long now even he is believes it. He sold an awful painting the other day for 8,000 dollars(anyone that knows him sees how bad the work is, others don't). It is all an illusion, the gallery person told the buyer that he was an up and coming artist that is starting to get collected by serious collectors and a story was created. . . sold. What is amazing is he wasn't even happy with the 8 thousand dollar figure, he is saying it should have gone for 25,000.

The point is there are great technical painters along with musicians that are starving and may never get noticed but there are also the notalent hacks that use other means to get noticed and scam their way to success. Check out the covers of music magazines. They are filled with asswipes like emminem and fity cent that are posing pissed off like they have somehng to be mad at when in reality they have hit the lottery and should be jumping up and down and thanking the Lord for their incredible luck but that wouldn't with the illusion, the story.

The jerk that got the grant to piss on the crucifix in a jar is nothing but that, a no-talent self promoter that talked some expert that he was a serious artist, that is what pisses people off, our tax dollars being used by scammers with the help of government experts.

Have I gotten far enough off of the subject of the thread yet. . . sorry.

50 Cent and Eminem aren't pissed off, it's part of their image to sell shit, and you're playing right into it.

 

[Zhukov]

50 Cent and Eminem aren't pissed off, it's part of their image to sell shit,

I do believe that was his whole point.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I do believe that was his whole point.

Seems to me like he thinks they're actually pissed off.

 

[Nuc]

Be careful about that term, many people found some of that art very offensive to their religion, one has to wonder with the purposeful way the artist had in denegrating religion that way what was the motivation. I wouldn't suggest shutting down the museum, but those whiners had every right to protest and make their concerns heard afterall to suggest they don't would also be fascist.

If we are talking about the same painting, it was done by a Catholic artist who said it was not intended to be offensive.

And Giuliani did threaten to shut down the museum. I don't have any problems with people protesting something they don't like.

 

[Zhukov]

Seems to me like he thinks they're actually pissed off.

.

They are filled with asswipes like emminem and fity cent that are posing pissed off like they have something to be mad at when in reality they have hit the lottery and should be jumping up and down and thanking the Lord for their incredible luck but that wouldn't work with the illusion, the story.

 

[Nuc]

I don't like Picasso so I should have no opinion that I should share? How fascist! I don't like Georges Braque either, but then I simply don't like cubism. Why would that make my opinion less valuable than yours or myself less knowledgeable than yourself? What an elitist! I can spell Picasso so I am better than you?!

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Sitarro and OCA. OCA made a derogatory comment to me about my ability to judge art. Sitarro jumped on the bandwagon, but that's OK with me because at least he knows something on the subject. I don't know what you're getting upset about, you're not part of the melee.

I like both Picasso and Van Gogh. I also like the idea that museums and their directors should display a wide variety of art that appeals to wide segments of the populace. Not everybody in Brooklyn, for example, is forced to look at EVERY painting that hangs in the museum there. But hopefully SOMEBODY likes every painting in the museum. If you don't like it, turn away, or don't look at it. I don't like politicians and religious people using threats to suppress art.

 

[sitarro]

The point is there are great technical painters along with musicians that are starving and may never get noticed but there are also the notalent hacks that use other means to get noticed and scam their way to success. Check out the covers of music magazines. They are filled with asswipes like emminem and fity cent that are posing pissed off like they have something to be mad at when in reality they have hit the lottery and should be jumping up and down and thanking the Lord for their incredible luck but that wouldn't work with the illusion, the story.

I didn't proof this before I sent it, sorry. Of course Zhukov is correct, the point is they feel a need to look pissed off for the idiots that buy into their bullshit. They don't have any of the problems they talk about. They haven't lived in those neighborhoods for years, they are rich beyond their own dreams and all it has gotten them is more money to get even tackier than ever. They are still losers with very little real talent when compared to a cello player for a small town symphony orchestra. Their only real talent is self promotion and scam art.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

.

We read that post differently then.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I didn't proof this before I sent it, sorry. Of course Zhukov is correct, the point is they feel a need to look pissed off for the idiots that buy into their bullshit. They don't have any of the problems they talk about. They haven't lived in those neighborhoods for years, they are rich beyond their own dreams and all it has gotten them is more money to get even tackier than ever. They are still losers with very little real talent when compared to a cello player for a small town symphony orchestra. Their only real talent is self promotion and scam art.

But anyone who knows hip-hop will tell you that 50 cent and eminem don't represent the artistic side of the culture, that's all I was getting across. Too many people these days just say "rap music" when they mean "50 cent," and that's incorrect.

They represent the commercial side, and you're right, they're years removed from the situation, but it sells records to keep the illusion alive. That's not their fault, it's the consumer's fault for buying into it.

 

[sitarro]

I really don't know where this "getting smoked in Iraq" is coming from. They say we are winning, me, I'm calling it right now, I say we won. There's going to be mopping up for awhile, that's the nature of a war where one side is just random people taking pot shots, but it's over. They can't win. We will begin drawing back forces spring '06. A quarter of a million Iraqi police and military will be more than capable of keeping things relatively under control.

The generals can't say it's going well, but I say it is. Around 2,000 dead, 15,000 wounded? I say, as detached as possible, that is acceptable. They couldn't possibly get away with saying that publically, but I can. Our losses are acceptable.

George Bush diffused a looming global catastrophe, postponed a civilizational war, and he did it losing only about 2,000 soldiers. That's pretty good in my book.

I also agree Zhuk, I hate the thought of losing even one of our great soldiers but they certainly seem to understand the importance of their mission and they also seem to have a genuine love and respect for their Commander in Chief.

They kicked Saddam's ass and have continued to pull in terrorist from around the world to be slaughtered or captured. Sure, I would have liked to see more air power used but it is not that type of war. I have faith that the guys on top have a great deal more information than I do to make their decisions. The political reprecussions of every step taken expands like a drop of water in a lake, the ripples are felt around the world. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems no matter what Air America wants us to believe.

I can't imagine what President Bush's life must be like, every action examined under a giant microscope by the world and criticized depending on political agendas. And yet he still continues everyday unphased on a mission he feels needs to be accomplished for our and the worlds safety. Got to love him for that. I still have confidence in him and our military, no apologies or regrets. :usa:

 

[no1tovote4]

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Sitarro and OCA. OCA made a derogatory comment to me about my ability to judge art. Sitarro jumped on the bandwagon, but that's OK with me because at least he knows something on the subject. I don't know what you're getting upset about, you're not part of the melee.

Because you don't differentiate. You specifically stated that if somebody doesn't "appreciate" Picasso and Van Gogh then they were artistically illiterate. I simply was pointing out that I think Picasso sucks and am not artistically illiterate.

I like both Picasso and Van Gogh. I also like the idea that museums and their directors should display a wide variety of art that appeals to wide segments of the populace. Not everybody in Brooklyn, for example, is forced to look at EVERY painting that hangs in the museum there. But hopefully SOMEBODY likes every painting in the museum. If you don't like it, turn away, or don't look at it. I don't like politicians and religious people using threats to suppress art.

Very few people create "art" that is specifically designed to insult a large segment of the population, then when those that do are called on their rudeness, they act all indignant along with "free-speech" nuts who think free speech is being cancelled because one piece of art is considered rude, but inwardly the artist jumps with delight because they know that people who think that art is whatever is insulting will now pay millions for their childish garbage no matter what it is comprised of, or how little talent it takes to create. It is simply free publicity, no matter how indignant you act about Giulanni saying the museum should be closed it simply never was closed, no free speech was taken from anybody, nor was it in any danger.

BTW - saying it "should" be closed isn't the same as threatening that it "will" be closed.

 

[sitarro]

But anyone who knows hip-hop will tell you that 50 cent and eminem don't represent the artistic side of the culture, that's all I was getting across. Too many people these days just say "rap music" when they mean "50 cent," and that's incorrect.

They represent the commercial side, and you're right, they're years removed from the situation, but it sells records to keep the illusion alive. That's not their fault, it's the consumer's fault for buying into it.

sorry, i don't know what they are calling it this minute and don't really care. I have never been one to find any meaning in lyrics because I have known enough musicians to know that their political opinions aren't usually from any real knowledge of what is going on.

When you get as old as I am you really don't have the time to waste on listening to what some young punk ass has to say about anything. I spend the hours listening to music that makes me feel good not piss me off. I am listening to Keiko Matsui as I write this and am pleased to say that she is making me feel great, what hands, incredible pianist!

 

[The ClayTaurus]

sorry, i don't know what they are calling it this minute and don't really care. I have never been one to find any meaning in lyrics because I have known enough musicians to know that their political opinions aren't usually from any real knowledge of what is going on.

When you get as old as I am you really don't have the time to waste on listening to what some young punk ass has to say about anything. I spend the hours listening to music that makes me feel good not piss me off. I am listening to Keiko Matsui as I write this and am pleased to say that she is making me feel great, what hands, incredible pianist!

But not all of hip hop has some sort of political implication. I think your age is leading you to dismiss it too quickly. Not all of hip hop even has lyrics, and that tends to be my favorite. To disparage it when you don't even spend any time with it doesn't seem to be very fair from an art appreciation standpoint...

Keiko Matsui is fantastic, both in original and sampled form.

 

[sitarro]

But not all of hip hop has some sort of political implication. I think your age is leading you to dismiss it too quickly. Not all of hip hop even has lyrics, and that tends to be my favorite. To disparage it when you don't even spend any time with it doesn't seem to be very fair from an art appreciation standpoint...

Keiko Matsui is fantastic, both in original and sampled form.

Well I have to be impressed with the fact that you know who Keiko is. . .give me some suggestions of the hip hop you would recommend please.

She is amazing, such a delicate looking little woman that plays the crap out of the piano.

My french friend also plays the piano so I showed him a DVD of hers and he was blown away. At one point he turned and said "She plays like a man!". Then at the end of the performance he turned with a very serious look on his face and said in his french "matter of fact" style,"If she touches your dick with these fingers, you die!" Easily one of the funniest compliments I have ever heard.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Well I have to be impressed with the fact that you know who Keiko is. . .give me some suggestions of the hip hop you would recommend please.

She is amazing, such a delicate looking little woman that plays the crap out of the piano.

My french friend also plays the piano so I showed him a DVD of hers and he was blown away. At one point he turned and said "She plays like a man!". Then at the end of the performance he turned with a very serious look on his face and said in his french "matter of fact" style,"If she touches your dick with these fingers, you die!" Easily one of the funniest compliments I have ever heard.

Recommendations? That's tough for me, as I'm a poor judge of what I think people will and will not like... there is a japanese DJ named DJ Krush who has worked with numerous jazz performers... sometimes he has guest MC's on to add lyrics, some of his albums are entirely instrumental.

Some of his songs are sort of out there and very avante garde, others are quite good. They usually have a darker, more exotic element to them. Paradise Bird Theory is by far my favorite song by him.

The basis of good hip hop to me is a good beat, however, so if you're not a 60 and 70's soul kind of person, or can't appreciate the beats and rhythm from that sort of music, then hip hop might not actually be for you, stylistically.

Do you usually like minimalist things like solo instrumental performances?