Who Seriously Still Thinks Bush A Conservative?

[Abbey Normal]

Being a photographer, painter, illustrator, and sculptor I have to ask by what definition do you call that art? The problem with that 3 letter word is that it is totally subjective and art is indeed in the eye of the beholder . . . whether it belongs to a proclaimed art expert or not. I have always corrected anyone trying to saddle that label on me, it doesn't take any talent what so ever to be an "artist", I am an illustrator.
Each of us create something everyday, we just tend to flush it down the toilet rather than let some nimrod display it on a museum wall...

Too funny!

 

[Abbey Normal]

...I also like the idea that museums and their directors should display a wide variety of art that appeals to wide segments of the populace. Not everybody in Brooklyn, for example, is forced to look at EVERY painting that hangs in the museum there. But hopefully SOMEBODY likes every painting in the museum. If you don't like it, turn away, or don't look at it. I don't like politicians and religious people using threats to suppress art.

Then you would surely say to someone who doesn't like to see the Ten Commandments or a Nativity scene displayed on taxpayer-funded property, "If you don't like it, turn away, or don't look at it. I don't like the ACLU using threats to suppress religious symbols."

 

[Nuc]

Then you would surely say to someone who doesn't like to see the Ten Commandments or a Nativity scene displayed on taxpayer-funded property, "If you don't like it, turn away, or don't look at it. I don't like the ACLU using threats to suppress religious symbols."

First of all the museum which has been discussed in this context is not solely funded by taxpayers. So that's a gray area.

I'm not a member of the ACLU, I don't know where you got that idea.

Most museums have a broad variety of art. I assume that if it's "The Museum of Questionable Portrayals of the Virgin Mary" Catholics wouldn't be going there anyway. The Brooklyn Museum has literally thousands of paintings and works of art in it, but Giuliani and some other fanatics wanted to shut it down because of one painting in one temporary exhibit that they couldn't grasp. That's overkill.

So your comparison is not reasonable on several grounds. However if a public place has religious symbols, that doesn't bother me as long as the place doesn't discriminate regarding which religion can display the symbol.

If you want to return to your example of a museum as a public place (because I think that's what you were saying), have you ever been to a museum that HASN'T displayed art of a religious nature, although it may be partially or wholly funded by the taxpayers? I'm not a Christian, but it doesn't bother me in the least to see a Madonna and child, or Last Supper in the Old Masters section of a museum when I visit. Most of the great museums also have sections for Asian, Middle Eastern and other art which has religious connotations.

This whole argument is based on the theory that, "I don't want my tax money going to fund things that go against my principles". Which is totally ridiculous because our tax money ALWAYS funds things we disagree with.

 

[Nuc]

Because you don't differentiate. You specifically stated that if somebody doesn't "appreciate" Picasso and Van Gogh then they were artistically illiterate. I simply was pointing out that I think Picasso sucks and am not artistically illiterate.


Very few people create "art" that is specifically designed to insult a large segment of the population, then when those that do are called on their rudeness, they act all indignant along with "free-speech" nuts who think free speech is being cancelled because one piece of art is considered rude, but inwardly the artist jumps with delight because they know that people who think that art is whatever is insulting will now pay millions for their childish garbage no matter what it is comprised of, or how little talent it takes to create. It is simply free publicity, no matter how indignant you act about Giulanni saying the museum should be closed it simply never was closed, no free speech was taken from anybody, nor was it in any danger.

BTW - saying it "should" be closed isn't the same as threatening that it "will" be closed.

Where to start here? OK, the painting everybody is whining about isn't offensive and wasn't created to offend anybody. Some artistic know-nothings got into a tizzy about a painting many of them had never seen.

Real artists create the art they want to and don't worry about whether or not they are offending anyone, present or future.

And saying a museum "should" be closed is different than "trying" to close it, which is what Giuliani did.

In fact you have the whole thing backwards. The artist just made a painting and the museum displayed it for its merits. It was Giuliani and the fanatics who "acted all indignant" and created "simply free publicity" for himself. He was trying to please the large Catholic voting bloc.

Listen, I lived three blocks away from the Brooklyn Museum when this thing went down and I asked many of the protesters if they had seen the painting. None had. They were protesting something they knew nothing about other than hearsay and brainwashing.

 

[archangel]

Just a simple guy here...this argument is interesting...however the only museums I go to are Natural History,archaeology,anthropology,or War and Technology...if I want Art I will go backpacking for a few days and take in Gods or if you are a secuarlist... Natures Art...To me if ya can't eat it,drive it,sleep in it or learn from it,well I have no interest in looking at someone elses interpretation of nature...or mans accomplishments! Kinda like watching Pro sports..I would rather participte rather than watch someone else have fun!

 

[theim]

I'll just pipe up to comment that if an artist desecrated the image of a certain holy figure of a certain other big-name religion much in the news today, he would attract a somewhat more...excitable crowd. It is so much more convenient to offend people who will just take it like they have since they came to this country, than to offend people who will put a knife in your gut.

 

[Nuc]

I'll just pipe up to comment that if an artist desecrated the image of a certain holy figure of a certain other big-name religion much in the news today, he would attract a somewhat more...excitable crowd. It is so much more convenient to offend people who will just take it like they have since they came to this country, than to offend people who will put a knife in your gut.

True, except that they don't have images of Muhammad.

Anyway as I've said numerous times, there was nothing desecrating, sacreligious or or offensive about the painting. I went to look at it, expecting something offensive or at least provocative. It wasn't. Tempest in a teapot and a publicity stunt for Giuliani.

 

[Annie]

What are you talking about? Museums can display whatever they want. The Brooklyn Museum does not receive all of their money from the public. And this begs the issue. If tax money can fund wars, or bridges, or roads the majority of Americans disagree with, why not art people disagree with. Until we get rid of taxation, this is a bogus argument.

So let the museum go totally private, where would be the problem in that? I have no problem with it. Time for the government to exit from any support of the arts.

Pay as you go.

 

[Nuc]

So let the museum go totally private, where would be the problem in that? I have no problem with it. Time for the government to exit from any support of the arts.

Pay as you go.

Just for the arts? Why not everything?

 

[OCA]

I'll put this as simply as possible. I know more about art than you do. Period.

Not if you think the Virgin Mary with cowshit is art do you know shit.

 

[OCA]

I really don't know where this "getting smoked in Iraq" is coming from. They say we are winning, me, I'm calling it right now, I say we won. There's going to be mopping up for awhile, that's the nature of a war where one side is just random people taking pot shots, but it's over. They can't win. We will begin drawing back forces spring '06. A quarter of a million Iraqi police and military will be more than capable of keeping things relatively under control.

The generals can't say it's going well, but I say it is. Around 2,000 dead, 15,000 wounded? I say, as detached as possible, that is acceptable. They couldn't possibly get away with saying that publically, but I can. Our losses are acceptable.

George Bush diffused a looming global catastrophe, postponed a civilizational war, and he did it losing only about 2,000 soldiers. That's pretty good in my book.

Zhukov you know first off you've always had my respect so take this for what its worth: this is exactly what i'm talking about, blind allegiance, what objective other than deposing Sadaam have we achieved? By all authoritative accounts the Iraqi army and police force are made up of people who are basicallt in it for the paycheck, hell the U.S. Military half the time can't depend on them to do anything other than cut and run at the first sign of gunfire and by many accounts there seems to be a sizeable amount of insurgent sympathizers among the ranks.

My prediction? As soon as we leave there will be massive civil war, hell there already is...Shiite vs Sunni. I mean is there 1 secure area of Iraq? Isn't that a basic tenet of war? Not even the green zone in Baghdad is safe.

I say fire up the b-52 and end this thing once and for all and lets also start calling a spade a spade, Bush has fucked this deal up by running the show from the oval office instead of properly using the military for what its designed for. Maybe some open criticism from conservatives is needed to get him on the right track.

 

[OCA]

Long time no see OCA - seems your opinion of our Great War President has changed since last we met.

Eat shit pudwhacker.

If had any semblance of manhood about you you'd love Bush right now because what he' practices economically is right up your alley and since you have always been an anti-American idiot you love what is happening in Iraq right now.

Yeah you can come back from your hiatus and be all coy and what not but i've got the memory of an elephant and I remember all your vile attacks upon this great land of ours......i'll be watching you closely.

 

[Nuc]

Not if you think the Virgin Mary with cowshit is art do you know shit.

Elephant shit, dumbass! Now stop with the paint by numbers, fingerpainting and etch-a-sketch. Leave art to the grownups.
:2guns: :wank: :whip3: :coffee3:

 

[archangel]

Elephant shit, dumbass! Now stop with the paint by numbers, fingerpainting and etch-a-sketch. Leave art to the grownups.
:2guns: :wank: :whip3: :coffee3:

Iv'e seen OCA ban people for a lot less than this nasty comment!

 

[Nuc]

Iv'e seen OCA ban people for a lot less than this nasty comment!

Scroll up two or three posts and see how he talks to people. I assumed this is the way he likes to converse. Seems like he's got a pretty thick skin. He probably doesn't need you brown nosing him on the subject. If I hurt his delicate feelings I will buy him a shot of ouzo and we'll be cool again, I'm sure.

 

[archangel]

Scroll up two or three posts and see how he talks to people. I assumed this is the way he likes to converse. Seems like he's got a pretty thick skin. He probably doesn't need you brown nosing him on the subject. If I hurt his delicate feelings I will buy him a shot of ouzo and we'll be cool again, I'm sure.

sorry I do not brown nose him or anyone else for that matter...ya will learn...maybe! Carry on forget what I said...nukie knows best!

 

[Annie]

Just for the arts? Why not everything?

Arts, Education, there are some areas that Gov't just doesn't belong. Anyone wish to add what departments they would like to see gone?

 

[musicman]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26045

Re: original thread topic

 

[musicman]

Arts, Education, there are some areas that Gov't just doesn't belong. Anyone wish to add what departments they would like to see gone?

The IRS!

 

[Nuc]

Arts, Education, there are some areas that Gov't just doesn't belong. Anyone wish to add what departments they would like to see gone?

With you on those. How about prisons? If they're privatized and they do a poor job, give the contract to someone else next time.

Military? We're already using tons of mercenaries. With no draft, what the hell?

I say let's get rid of TSA. Just have a sign at the airport "Air Travel is Dangerous. If you can't handle it, drive or stay home." That would save a lot of money.

Drug enforcement. Get rid of it. Legalize them. "War on Drugs" my ass. Turn on the TV, they're selling every drug under the sun there.

Marriage. Government should get out of that business. Give it back to the churches. No more tax breaks or disadvantages for married people.