Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Sixties Fan]

It is a shame that the tour guide didn't go to the media. It was a golden opportunity to highlight the Muslim leaders' fright of the truth, and it would have put the Waqf on the defensive -- they would have to double down on their reasons that a map makes them go crazy, knowing that the western world would ridicule them, which would shame them.

Shame is the best weapon the West has to force the Waqf to treat visitors with basic respect. Otherwise they will continue to act like toddlers who don't want to hear the truth..

It is worth repeating that Muslims all freely admitted that the First and Second Temples were on the Temple Mount before 1967. Which is one more reason why people should be especially skeptical when they make claims today - lying in the service of the Umma is not only tolerated but expected.

This is a translation of a 15th century work by a Muslim scholar all about the Jewish Temples.

(full article online)

Frightened Waqf confiscates a map of the Second Temple from Christian tour guide ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[rylah]

At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement (established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl) was one faction (of several factions) within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.

There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.

Arab Nationalism outside of Arabia - is always and will remain a colonial occupation.
The Jewish nationalism in Jerusalem (Zion) is the cure for this Arab imperialism, many other nations should adopt as well.

Enough with the Arab subjugation of whole nations in the middle east.

 

[rylah]

Ahh.. usual al-Jazeerah talking points.

She too blames it all on Jews, but fails to mention Arab violence towards Jews before Zionism.

But, but, but......Muslims are the replacement to both Judaism and Christianity.

How can one blame Islam for not acknowledging Jewish rights, when Judaism can only exist under Islamic protection.

That is all Muslims wish to do and the Jews just don't understand it.

Muslims, especially Arabs, only want to Protect Jews.

From themselves.

How many times do you say Muslim when a Christian speaks?

Ashrawi is a member of a Palestinian govt that declared Sharia Laws as "at the basis of all legislation".
She's representing a govt with an overwhelming Muslim majority and control.

There are no laws in Palestine restricting religion.

Is there an open synagogue in Ramallah or Gaza?

 

[P F Tinmore]

At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement (established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl) was one faction (of several factions) within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.

There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.

Arab Nationalism outside of Arabia - is always and will remain a colonial occupation.
The Jewish nationalism in Jerusalem (Zion) is the cure for this Arab imperialism, many other nations should adopt as well.

Enough with the Arab subjugation of whole nations in the middle east.

There are no nationality or religious specific rights in Palestine.

 

[rylah]

At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement (established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl) was one faction (of several factions) within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.

There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.

Arab Nationalism outside of Arabia - is always and will remain a colonial occupation.
The Jewish nationalism in Jerusalem (Zion) is the cure for this Arab imperialism, many other nations should adopt as well.

Enough with the Arab subjugation of whole nations in the middle east.

There are no nationality or religious specific rights in Palestine.

Q. Is there an open synagogue in Ramallah or Gazah?
Q. Are Jews allowed in the future Palestinian state?

They specifically declare that Jews are not allowed...Sharia Law is indeed at the basis of all legislation for Hamas and PA - You support it.

 

[Sixties Fan]

At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement (established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl) was one faction (of several factions) within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.

There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.

Arab Nationalism outside of Arabia - is always and will remain a colonial occupation.
The Jewish nationalism in Jerusalem (Zion) is the cure for this Arab imperialism, many other nations should adopt as well.

Enough with the Arab subjugation of whole nations in the middle east.

There are no nationality or religious specific rights in Palestine.

Are there nationality or religious specific rights anywhere else in the world?

How come the Muslims seem to think that they have the right to ALL of Palestine, if your saying is true?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Hamas Abandons Their Dead, as IDF Allows Them To Approach Fence | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Jewish Press News Briefs | 14 Heshvan 5778 – November 3, 2017 | JewishPress.com

 

[Hollie]

At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement (established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl) was one faction (of several factions) within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.

There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.

Arab Nationalism outside of Arabia - is always and will remain a colonial occupation.
The Jewish nationalism in Jerusalem (Zion) is the cure for this Arab imperialism, many other nations should adopt as well.

Enough with the Arab subjugation of whole nations in the middle east.

There are no nationality or religious specific rights in Palestine.

That’s especially true in Gaza’istan. Arab-Moslem is, with virtual exclusivity, the only national/politico-religious ideology allowed.

 

[JoelT1]

No history of “palestinians”

Jesus “King of the Jews”

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is an argument to be made that to be "Arab" one must be from one of the many Semitic people or tribal cultures under the Ottoman Empire prior to the post-War disintegration. Britannica says that Arabs are a "diverse assortment of peoples (that) defies physical stereotyping."

"The pastoral desert nomad, the traditional ideal of Arab culture, makes up barely 5 percent of the modern Arab population." < SOURCE: Arab People: Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica >​

At the time of Theodor Herzl death in 1904, the Zionist Movement (established as a political organization in 1897 by Herzl) was one faction (of several factions) within the overall Jewish Community that promoted nationalism. This was not so radically different from the development of "Arabism" and "Arabness" bubling up in the same tie period.

There is a huge difference. Arab nationalism was to be realized on Arab land. Zionist nationalism was to be realized on someone else's land.

(COMMENT)

But one can legitimately ask: What is meant by "Arab land? "Imru' al-Qays ibn 'Amr - is believed to have been the first "King of all the Arabs" (≈ 300 BC). But those territories have changed hands many times.

The land under discussion was under the Sovereignty of the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic. The people of that territory may have made real estate transactions in the Region; but the last Sovereign Government was Ottoman; until each area was released from the associated Mandate. The Arabs of Palestinian were never part of an autonomous self-governing institution. IN FACT, the Arabs in place today actually declined to participate in the development of such self-governing institutions; refusing to accept responsibility for the further development.

When we talk about land and its sovereignty TODAY, we have to look at the Political Map of Israel as it is controlled today, and for the last half century. The validity of the map is not about who published it, but about the nations that understand the consequences if they transgress those lines.

Now I know that you do not recognize the validity of the Map No 3584 Rev. 2 UNITED NATIONS January 2004 (Peacekeeping Operations), but it depicts a very - very - good Approximation of the Border that Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon recognize. In fact, the sovereign control of such is no more readily recognized (Internationally) than on Aeronautical Charts of the region.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Ventura77]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, et al,

I don't disagree with all of this.

The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.

(COMMENT)

There is no question that since the very outset of the San Remo principles, the Arab Higher Committee had stated their objections to the Allied Powers; and in particular, to the selected Mandatory (UK).

Missed opportunities can best be evaluated in the annuals of history. It is about the opportunity costs versus the cost at the end of a long-term outcome.

First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population). Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.

(COMMENT)

As I have said before, the ownership of property, which is a civil law real estate matter, is completely different from:

• Sovereignty and Independence
• The Protection and Preservation of a Culture​

The idea of the "land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State," was not the specific intent at the time of the San Remo decision. The San Remo decision mandated a "Jewish National Home," which is not the same thing as the "Jewish State." The evolution from the concept of a "National Home" to that of a "Jewish State" was a consequence of the irreconcilable differences and deadly political clashes between the two cultures.

By 1923, when the Arab Palestinian rejected the participation (several times) in the creation of an autonomous government --- to the development of the Muslim Mufti's active participation in antisemitic activities, --- to the Muslim Cleric that assembled the Palestinian Black Hand, the idea of an assimilated population (Jewish - Arab), peacefully living together, was becoming ever more distant possibility.
Included in the 1930 White Paper on the development of self-governing institutions, the following observations was made:

• 
  “that the time has now come when the important question of the establishment of a measure of self-government in Palestine must, in the interests of the community as a whole, be taken in hand without further delay.”

But, there was no question that by the mid-to-late 1930's (sometimes called the Period of Arab Rebellion 1936-1939) The Supreme Arab Committee, (becoming more and more popularly know as the Arab Higher Committee) heavily influenced by the Grand-Mufti of Jerusalem decreed that a called a general strike, which had started earlier --- (territorial wide work stoppage) --- should continue until Jewish immigration was suspended. This was viewed as a form of coercion directed against the Palestine Administration; to attain what they could not achieve through diplomatic of political means. Many outside and independent observers saw this as evidence that the Arab Palestinian was not yet able to stand-alone and an emerging government.

As history has shown, every single regional country immediately surrounding Israel since the end of WWII, as been involved in self-destructive and violent overthrows of the original self-government established at the termination of their associated Mandate.​

On the 1939 outbreak of war, the Jewish people were once again in peril. And it appeared that the principle players in the Arab Community in Palestine, had sided with the Axis Powers. This strained the Jewish-Arab relationship even more. Following the conclusion of WWII, the animosity between the two cultures lead many to believe that a single-state solution would be unworkable and would destabilize almost immediately.

In the thumbnail view, this is what drove support for Jewish Nationalism independent of the Arab Community. No one trusted the Arab Community in Palestine, to act as the guardian of the Jewish People. No one trusted them then, no one trusts them now.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!

 

[Ventura77]

"what I think it says???" You are so remarkably lost in this exchange that I almost pity you...you speak of 'rights' that are completely fictive, the DNA question merely resolves one of the central claims of Zionist polemics: that today's Jews are genetic relations to the ancient Jews, DNA proves not! Yet you appear to dismiss the relevance of the DNA proof because it obliterates a long-standing Zionist lie. But the real gem is your standard reference to native Americans...When the Christian Europeans were killing the native tribes there was no international law...no protections for the property rights of native peoples...however this was not the case in 1948...hence your analogy falls flat, as does your febrile bullshit...

1. DNA evidence has consistently proven that all Jews have Levantine origins (yes, including the Ashkenazi). This particular study that you quote does not say what you think it says. Why? Because there are no Khazars to compare DNA with!

2. If DNA is the definitive determiner of human rights -- let's get ON with testing the Arab Palestinians.

3. International law in 1948 upheld the already existing rights of the Jewish people to their historical and ancestral lands.

TRY TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION:

1. DNA evidence has consistently proven that all Jews have Levantine origins (yes, including the Ashkenazi). This particular study that you quote does not say what you think it says. Why? Because there are no Khazars to compare DNA with!
THIS IS AN ABSURD, EVEN MORONIC CLAIM TO THE EXTENT THAT DNA ANALYSIS CLEARLY ISOLATES KHAZAR DNA, AND DETERMINES THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF JEWS ARE DIRECT DESCENDANTS...CLEARLY YOU DON'T BEGIN TO COMPREHEND ELIAK'S EVIDENCE...LOL


2. If DNA is the definitive determiner of human rights -- let's get ON with testing the Arab Palestinians.
HERE YET AGAIN THE POINT ELUDES YOU: FALSE CLAIMS OF DIRECT LINEAGE WITH THE ANCIENT SEMITIC JEWS WERE PROVEN FALSE BY ELIAK'S DNA ANALYSIS...

3. International law in 1948 upheld the already existing rights of the Jewish people to their historical and ancestral lands.[/QUOTE]

NO ACTUALLY IT DID NOT, BECAUSE NO SUCH LAW OR PUTATIVE RIGHT EXISTED...TRY PROVING THIS STATEMENT WITH A SHRED OF DOCUMENTATION...YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU SPOUT...

 

[Ventura77]

Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 ...

Repeat after me....

Land ownership is not sovereignty.

Land ownership is not sovereignty.

Land ownership is not sovereignty.

(And P F Tinmore , you know better than to have labelled that post a "Winner".)

Also, those statistics do no accurately reflect the reality of land ownership at the time.

Repeat after me: LAND OWNERSHIP EQUATES TO PROPERTY RIGHTS...THE SAME TACTIC THAT ISRAELI JEWS NOW AFFIRM THROUGH CRIMINAL CONFISCATION AND OCCUPATION...FOR THE DOZENTH TIME: YOUR ARGUMENT IS WITH LEADING PRE-STATE ZIONISTS WHO ALL CONCEDED THE ARAB RESIDENCY RIGHTS TO 'their lands'...

 

[Ventura77]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, et al,

When a sentence starts with a "What," it is a basic interrogative --- NOT a denial.

HERE IS AN IDEAL EXAMPLE OF JEWISH OBSCURANTISM AND BLIND DENIAL...Congrats Rocco, you just fell flat on your face!!!! The only 'ambiguity' is your own amigo...to state that the actual intervention by Syrian and Egyptian troops is not 'relative' to an event upon which Israel's putative statehood was premised is essentially a fool's perspective....there was no 'War of Independence' because no 'dependent' Israel existed...the 'Zionist offensive' is ridiculously well-documented, mostly by the statements of the Zionist leaders involved....you didn't refute the information I posted, you merely exposed your profound ignorance!!! LOL

(COMMENT)

• What Zionist offensive?" What "attacking military campaign?"

• The United Nations in conjunction with the UK Mandatory, set up procedures, so that the Palestine Government would, when the time came, be hand over UN Palestine Commission.” The Jewish Agency had been, since the creation of the UN Palestine Commission, coordinating and working through the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as recommended in Resolution 181(II).

§ Israeli 'War of Independence'

The first war immediately followed Israel’s proclamation of statehood on May 14, 1948. Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon occupied the areas in southern and eastern Palestine not apportioned to the Jews by the United Nations (UN) partition of Palestine and then captured east Jerusalem, including the small Jewish quarter of the Old City, in an effort to forestall the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine. (SOURCE: Encyclopædia Britannica - Articles of History - Arab-Israeli Wars)

As independence was declared, Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, and Iraq invaded Israel. The Egyptians gained some territory in the south and the Jordanians took Jerusalem's Old City, but the other Arab forces were soon halted. In June the United Nations succeeded in establishing a four-week truce. (SOURCE: Arab-Israeli Wars: The 1948–49 War --- INFO Please --- Columbia Encyclopedia)

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948. (SOURCE: “Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations,”)​

• Certainly, if you go back over my posting, you will notice that at no time did I suggest that the Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and volunteers from others, did not play a role in the initial assault on Israel --- immediately following the coordinated announcement of the Independence of the Jewish State. I questioned the appropriate use of the phrase "Zionist offensive" and I suggested that elements of the five primary participants in the 15 May 1948 Assault on Israel was to prevent the ability of the Provisional Government from fully forming. After all, this was a principle objective as stated by the Arab Higher Committee.

• You stipulated that "Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation..." --- that is probably true, since there were numerous reports of the primary Arab Aggressors operating inside the territory still under the Mandate, performing reconnaissance,registering artillery points, and recruting insurgents and local national support. (EXAMPLE UK MEMO to UNPC: A/AC.21/UK/10 February 1948 Entry into Palestine of Large Parties of Trained Guerrillas from Adjacent Territory)

(SALIENT POINT)

No matter what your claim about who did what to whom, 70 years ago, the fact of the matter is (right - wrong - indifferent) it will not change the ground truth of today, the political outs established in the past, or further advance the Hostile Arab Palestinian Position that conflict is the only solution and that further negotiations are irrelevant.

As long as you are captured by the political gravitation of the past, you will not --- cannot --- progress to any meaningful settlement consistent with the Resolution of "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102) and the "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" (A/RES/25/3625). It is a consequence of the Arab Palestinians specifically, and the general Arab World Generally, that retards their advancement up the Human Development Scale, despite economic advantages and the contributions by donor nations.

"Most Arabs are busy these days with bloody battles waged by their leaders,
who are struggling to survive.
These battles are raging in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya and the Palestinian Authority."
— Mohammed al-Musafer, columnist.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.

First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population).
Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.

Link?

The information posted is effortlessly confirmed by a wide number of sources including the Israelis...if you propose to dispute any or all of it I would encourage you to try...

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, et al,

When a sentence starts with a "What," it is a basic interrogative --- NOT a denial.

HERE IS AN IDEAL EXAMPLE OF JEWISH OBSCURANTISM AND BLIND DENIAL...Congrats Rocco, you just fell flat on your face!!!! The only 'ambiguity' is your own amigo...to state that the actual intervention by Syrian and Egyptian troops is not 'relative' to an event upon which Israel's putative statehood was premised is essentially a fool's perspective....there was no 'War of Independence' because no 'dependent' Israel existed...the 'Zionist offensive' is ridiculously well-documented, mostly by the statements of the Zionist leaders involved....you didn't refute the information I posted, you merely exposed your profound ignorance!!! LOL

(COMMENT)

• What Zionist offensive?" What "attacking military campaign?"

• The United Nations in conjunction with the UK Mandatory, set up procedures, so that the Palestine Government would, when the time came, be hand over UN Palestine Commission.” The Jewish Agency had been, since the creation of the UN Palestine Commission, coordinating and working through the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as recommended in Resolution 181(II).

§ Israeli 'War of Independence'

The first war immediately followed Israel’s proclamation of statehood on May 14, 1948. Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon occupied the areas in southern and eastern Palestine not apportioned to the Jews by the United Nations (UN) partition of Palestine and then captured east Jerusalem, including the small Jewish quarter of the Old City, in an effort to forestall the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine. (SOURCE: Encyclopædia Britannica - Articles of History - Arab-Israeli Wars)

As independence was declared, Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, and Iraq invaded Israel. The Egyptians gained some territory in the south and the Jordanians took Jerusalem's Old City, but the other Arab forces were soon halted. In June the United Nations succeeded in establishing a four-week truce. (SOURCE: Arab-Israeli Wars: The 1948–49 War --- INFO Please --- Columbia Encyclopedia)

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948. (SOURCE: “Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations,”)​

• Certainly, if you go back over my posting, you will notice that at no time did I suggest that the Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and volunteers from others, did not play a role in the initial assault on Israel --- immediately following the coordinated announcement of the Independence of the Jewish State. I questioned the appropriate use of the phrase "Zionist offensive" and I suggested that elements of the five primary participants in the 15 May 1948 Assault on Israel was to prevent the ability of the Provisional Government from fully forming. After all, this was a principle objective as stated by the Arab Higher Committee.

• You stipulated that "Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation..." --- that is probably true, since there were numerous reports of the primary Arab Aggressors operating inside the territory still under the Mandate, performing reconnaissance,registering artillery points, and recruting insurgents and local national support. (EXAMPLE UK MEMO to UNPC: A/AC.21/UK/10 February 1948 Entry into Palestine of Large Parties of Trained Guerrillas from Adjacent Territory)

(SALIENT POINT)

No matter what your claim about who did what to whom, 70 years ago, the fact of the matter is (right - wrong - indifferent) it will not change the ground truth of today, the political outs established in the past, or further advance the Hostile Arab Palestinian Position that conflict is the only solution and that further negotiations are irrelevant.

As long as you are captured by the political gravitation of the past, you will not --- cannot --- progress to any meaningful settlement consistent with the Resolution of "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102) and the "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" (A/RES/25/3625). It is a consequence of the Arab Palestinians specifically, and the general Arab World Generally, that retards their advancement up the Human Development Scale, despite economic advantages and the contributions by donor nations.

"Most Arabs are busy these days with bloody battles waged by their leaders,
who are struggling to survive.
These battles are raging in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya and the Palestinian Authority."
— Mohammed al-Musafer, columnist.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.

First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population).
Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.

Link?

The information posted is effortlessly confirmed by a wide number of sources including the Israelis...if you propose to dispute any or all of it I would encourage you to try...

You have spent a great deal of effort avoiding such a claimed effortless confirmation, as usual.

 

[JoelT1]

No history of “palestinians”

“Rabbi” Jesus “King of Israel”

 

[Ventura77]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, et al,

When a sentence starts with a "What," it is a basic interrogative --- NOT a denial.

HERE IS AN IDEAL EXAMPLE OF JEWISH OBSCURANTISM AND BLIND DENIAL...Congrats Rocco, you just fell flat on your face!!!! The only 'ambiguity' is your own amigo...to state that the actual intervention by Syrian and Egyptian troops is not 'relative' to an event upon which Israel's putative statehood was premised is essentially a fool's perspective....there was no 'War of Independence' because no 'dependent' Israel existed...the 'Zionist offensive' is ridiculously well-documented, mostly by the statements of the Zionist leaders involved....you didn't refute the information I posted, you merely exposed your profound ignorance!!! LOL

(COMMENT)

• What Zionist offensive?" What "attacking military campaign?"

• The United Nations in conjunction with the UK Mandatory, set up procedures, so that the Palestine Government would, when the time came, be hand over UN Palestine Commission.” The Jewish Agency had been, since the creation of the UN Palestine Commission, coordinating and working through the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as recommended in Resolution 181(II).

§ Israeli 'War of Independence'

The first war immediately followed Israel’s proclamation of statehood on May 14, 1948. Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon occupied the areas in southern and eastern Palestine not apportioned to the Jews by the United Nations (UN) partition of Palestine and then captured east Jerusalem, including the small Jewish quarter of the Old City, in an effort to forestall the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine. (SOURCE: Encyclopædia Britannica - Articles of History - Arab-Israeli Wars)

As independence was declared, Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, and Iraq invaded Israel. The Egyptians gained some territory in the south and the Jordanians took Jerusalem's Old City, but the other Arab forces were soon halted. In June the United Nations succeeded in establishing a four-week truce. (SOURCE: Arab-Israeli Wars: The 1948–49 War --- INFO Please --- Columbia Encyclopedia)

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948. (SOURCE: “Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations,”)​

• Certainly, if you go back over my posting, you will notice that at no time did I suggest that the Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and volunteers from others, did not play a role in the initial assault on Israel --- immediately following the coordinated announcement of the Independence of the Jewish State. I questioned the appropriate use of the phrase "Zionist offensive" and I suggested that elements of the five primary participants in the 15 May 1948 Assault on Israel was to prevent the ability of the Provisional Government from fully forming. After all, this was a principle objective as stated by the Arab Higher Committee.

• You stipulated that "Israel did not yet exist when the fraudulent claim of 'Five Arab armies attacking' went into circulation..." --- that is probably true, since there were numerous reports of the primary Arab Aggressors operating inside the territory still under the Mandate, performing reconnaissance,registering artillery points, and recruting insurgents and local national support. (EXAMPLE UK MEMO to UNPC: A/AC.21/UK/10 February 1948 Entry into Palestine of Large Parties of Trained Guerrillas from Adjacent Territory)

(SALIENT POINT)

No matter what your claim about who did what to whom, 70 years ago, the fact of the matter is (right - wrong - indifferent) it will not change the ground truth of today, the political outs established in the past, or further advance the Hostile Arab Palestinian Position that conflict is the only solution and that further negotiations are irrelevant.

As long as you are captured by the political gravitation of the past, you will not --- cannot --- progress to any meaningful settlement consistent with the Resolution of "Settlement by peaceful means of disputes between States" (A/RES/34/102) and the "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" (A/RES/25/3625). It is a consequence of the Arab Palestinians specifically, and the general Arab World Generally, that retards their advancement up the Human Development Scale, despite economic advantages and the contributions by donor nations.

"Most Arabs are busy these days with bloody battles waged by their leaders,
who are struggling to survive.
These battles are raging in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya and the Palestinian Authority."
— Mohammed al-Musafer, columnist.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.

First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population).
Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.

Link?

The information posted is effortlessly confirmed by a wide number of sources including the Israelis...if you propose to dispute any or all of it I would encourage you to try...

You have spent a great deal of effort avoiding such a claimed effortless confirmation, as usual.

Unfortunately I have no control over those in denial such as yourself...again for the sake of the demonstrably under-educated: YOU ARGUMENT IS WITH BOTH PRE-STATE AND POST-STATE ZIONIST LUMINARIES...if you can dispute or call into question their collective authority in the matter be my guest...LMFAO

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, et al,

I try not to paint with broad brush strokes. Your intention is to call everyone that holds a pro-Israeli view, a liar.

"you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!"
​

I'm not sure that you understand the underlying point: Palestinians have demonstrated over time that any trust placed in them to follow "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" is lacking any temporal confidence. And to suggest that there is an over arching conspiracy to defraud the Arab-Palestinians is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety, fear, and often delusion and irrationality.

"Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population"​

The thought process often express here by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) present delusions that are specifically associated with symptom of psychosis of an almost unique to HoAP; "bizarrely" misrepresentations in content; a consistent urge to project the image that any pro-Israel stance is a fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life.

Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!

(Bottom Line Up Front)

In nearly every discussion, the HoAP presentation is a form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of Israel,

The HoAP, will attempt to promote and create international pressures that are intended to do irreparable harm to the Jewish State and trigger a collapse; all under the color of law.

The HoAP intend to create barriers that will obstruct the protection and preservation of the Jewish National Home.

(COMMENT)

There is little question that the State of Israel, after more than three-quarters of a century under the threat of --- or actual use of force (including that proscribed by law) has made mistakes; in procedure, legally, morally and even ethically. I do not think that anyone actually argues that this is not true. But, having said that, there is no question that the HoAP should bear the weight of the prolonged and mutual hostility, and asymmetric violent assaults.

The HoAP and others that lend support to the HoAP, under color of any law or resolution, willfully subjects the Jewish State, Territory, Possession, to the deprivation of any rights (including the "right to self-determination" and territorial integrity), privileges, secured or protected through the defense and preservation of it culture, people and religion --- should be dealt with severely.

The HoAP have been, and continue to be involved with acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and other types of destructive --- encouraged by the thoughtlessness of others. No nation or people have some special right to incitement others to commit terrorist acts. The Arab Palestinians, especially, have no right to indulge in Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence --- no matter the reason or cause.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

Hamas Says ‘No’ to Info on Missing Israelis in Exchange for Rescue Access | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | Steve | 14 Heshvan 5778 – November 3, 2017 | JewishPress.com

 

[Ventura77]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ Ventura77, et al,

I try not to paint with broad brush strokes. Your intention is to call everyone that holds a pro-Israeli view, a liar.

"you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!"
​

I'm not sure that you understand the underlying point: Palestinians have demonstrated over time that any trust placed in them to follow "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States" is lacking any temporal confidence. And to suggest that there is an over arching conspiracy to defraud the Arab-Palestinians is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety, fear, and often delusion and irrationality.

"Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population"​

The thought process often express here by the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) present delusions that are specifically associated with symptom of psychosis of an almost unique to HoAP; "bizarrely" misrepresentations in content; a consistent urge to project the image that any pro-Israel stance is a fixed false beliefs that involve situations that could potentially occur in real life.

Rocco, you endeavor to make the issue considerably more complex and vague than it actually was: The Zionists who conspired against the majority Arab population of Historic Palestine essentially conceded all of the main points that critics of Israel employ against propaganda-parrots...the scathing irony is that your argument is inexorably with people like Theodore Herzl...Hiam Weitzman...Begin...Dayan...Rabin...Ben Gurion...Jabotinsky...etc. I cannot overestimate this point...you and others who routinely post lies and distortions typically ignore this salient consideration...these Zionists literally obliterate your arguments!

(Bottom Line Up Front)

In nearly every discussion, the HoAP presentation is a form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of Israel,

The HoAP, will attempt to promote and create international pressures that are intended to do irreparable harm to the Jewish State and trigger a collapse; all under the color of law.

The HoAP intend to create barriers that will obstruct the protection and preservation of the Jewish National Home.

(COMMENT)

There is little question that the State of Israel, after more than three-quarters of a century under the threat of --- or actual use of force (including that proscribed by law) has made mistakes; in procedure, legally, morally and even ethically. I do not think that anyone actually argues that this is not true. But, having said that, there is no question that the HoAP should bear the weight of the prolonged and mutual hostility, and asymmetric violent assaults.

The HoAP and others that lend support to the HoAP, under color of any law or resolution, willfully subjects the Jewish State, Territory, Possession, to the deprivation of any rights (including the "right to self-determination" and territorial integrity), privileges, secured or protected through the defense and preservation of it culture, people and religion --- should be dealt with severely.

The HoAP have been, and continue to be involved with acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and other types of destructive --- encouraged by the thoughtlessness of others. No nation or people have some special right to incitement others to commit terrorist acts. The Arab Palestinians, especially, have no right to indulge in Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence --- no matter the reason or cause.

Most Respectfully,
R

Once again you are completely in error...Israel does not have 'territorial integrity' to the obvious extent that the state is a criminal occupier...you play the same blame game that is consciously wound through the spools of Zionist propaganda...to refer to the ridiculously unbalanced resistance of the Palestinians as 'terrorism' and the actions of Israel as legitimate is essentially to flip the roles of victims and aggressors. The Jews continue to brazenly steal Palestinian lands and build networks of illegal Jewish settlements---thereby deliberately inciting violence and the laughable claim that 'we Jews are under attack by Arab terrorists'...this argument will invariably go back to the documented public statements of leading 20th century Zionists, who were quite frank in their intent and its predicted consequences...