Where Does Gravity Come From?

[Hollie]

you mean appealing to organic chemicals magically turning into life?......

Are you suggesting "the gawds did it" (just 6,000 years ago), is a viable explanation for the diversity of life on the planet?

nope, I suggesting your argument continues to be irrational......

Your belief in magic and superstition is irrational. There's no reason to accept magic and supernaturalism in place of well defined knowledge of the natural world.

 

[Hollie]

Al

We take a lot of things for granted, like gravity, the speed of light, the laws of physics, the boiling points of different elements.

Tweek one thing, one small detail, and it would all be out of whack and human life would not be possible.

I think there is a good argument for saying that nothing in this universe was randomly determined, not even the smallest detail.

All we know for certain is that atheists think they evolved from monkeys and apes

The theories describing evolution are the best explanations we have so far. The scope, robustness, evidence in support, and explanatory power of the theories fit our observations better than the creation stories of any religion.

No, they're not. Those theories are ridiculous and mathematically impossible. The odds of random molecules forming a protein and those proteins forming cells are beyond astronomical.

Are we talking about the theories of evolution or abiogenesis? Evolution has to do with the diversity of life forms, and abiogenesis with the how life developed in the first place. Because we don't know the conditions of all the places on the planet when life began, and all the conditions that must be for life to begin, no one knows the odds of it forming in the first place. So talking about the odds of it happening is pointless. No one knows what the odds are. But here's link if you wish to educate yourself on abiogenesis, statistics, and science:

Lies Damned Lies Statistics and Probability ofAbiogenesis Calculations

obviously we aren't talking about evolution.....we are talking about the origin of life.....evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life.....neither do puddles of mud spontaneously erupting into life.....

Your really inept description is precisely why you should avoid trolling creation ministries. Parroting what you read at the Institute for Creation Research will always leave you as the butt of jokes and ridicule.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Al

We take a lot of things for granted, like gravity, the speed of light, the laws of physics, the boiling points of different elements.

Tweek one thing, one small detail, and it would all be out of whack and human life would not be possible.

I think there is a good argument for saying that nothing in this universe was randomly determined, not even the smallest detail.

All we know for certain is that atheists think they evolved from monkeys and apes

The theories describing evolution are the best explanations we have so far. The scope, robustness, evidence in support, and explanatory power of the theories fit our observations better than the creation stories of any religion.

that's pretty funny.......tell me, do you really believe that?.....because there actually is no fucking evidence that organic chemicals turned into life.....

I don't believe in the theories of evolution, theories don't require belief. I don't believe in abiogenesis, as it either happened or it didn't and so belief is irrelevant. I don't KNOW how life came to exist and neither does anyone else - despite what one may believe or believe they know. Belief isn't knowledge.

Consider your statement above where you conflate evolution with abiogenesis, are you sure that:

"obviously we aren't talking about evolution.....we are talking about the origin of life.....evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life.....neither do puddles of mud spontaneously erupting into life....." See post #59.

It isn't obvious, is it? I don't think you know very much about evolution. Probably only what you were taught in high school. I would recommend reading more about it. There a millions of scientific journal articles about it. I'll even help you get started:

2,050,000 results.

scientific journal articles biological evolution - Google Scholar

 

[PostmodernProph]

Al

We take a lot of things for granted, like gravity, the speed of light, the laws of physics, the boiling points of different elements.

Tweek one thing, one small detail, and it would all be out of whack and human life would not be possible.

I think there is a good argument for saying that nothing in this universe was randomly determined, not even the smallest detail.

All we know for certain is that atheists think they evolved from monkeys and apes

The theories describing evolution are the best explanations we have so far. The scope, robustness, evidence in support, and explanatory power of the theories fit our observations better than the creation stories of any religion.

that's pretty funny.......tell me, do you really believe that?.....because there actually is no fucking evidence that organic chemicals turned into life.....

I don't believe in the theories of evolution, theories don't require belief. I don't believe in abiogenesis, as it either happened or it didn't and so belief is irrelevant. I don't KNOW how life came to exist and neither does anyone else - despite what one may believe or believe they know. Belief isn't knowledge.

Consider your statement above where you conflate evolution with abiogenesis, are you sure that:

"obviously we aren't talking about evolution.....we are talking about the origin of life.....evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life.....neither do puddles of mud spontaneously erupting into life....." See post #59.

It isn't obvious, is it? I don't think you know very much about evolution. Probably only what you were taught in high school. I would recommend reading more about it. There a millions of scientific journal articles about it. I'll even help you get started:

2,050,000 results.

scientific journal articles biological evolution - Google Scholar

I'm sorry dude, but if you think evolution explains the origin of life, then its you that doesn't understand evolution......

 

[Roudy]

Where Does Gravity Come From

We know a lot about gravity, but some basic questions remain unanswered:

1) What is gravity?

2) Where does gravity come from?

3) Would it be possible to have a universe without a law of gravity?

Using the "God of the gaps" argument, there are some pretty major gaps here.

Why do scientists assume that gravity is a given?

Imagine a universe where matter does not attract other matter?

Since we do not know what gravity is, we cannot say such a universe is impossible.

But one thing is certain, there could be no life in such a universe.

Just imagine without gravity, what would happen when you went to the toilet.

 

[indiajo]

We take a lot of things for granted, like gravity, the speed of light, the laws of physics, the boiling points of different elements.

Tweek one thing, one small detail, and it would all be out of whack and human life would not be possible.

I think there is a good argument for saying that nothing in this universe was randomly determined, not even the smallest detail.

No offense meant by this, but if there's anything to the God is in the Gaps arguement, it's that your gaps of understanding physics, astronomy, and science in general are so vast that God fits in it.

The speed of light, once thought to be constant isn't. Can google that if curious it's kinda paranthetical to my point. The laws of physics aren't so absolute that they prove a god must be responsible for them. Science evolves and changes as newer experiments testing its truths come to be. Better more powerful computers for example allow some concepts and truths to be tested, confirmed, or refuted.

By and large, scientific truth solves specific problems, but still isn't absolutely true in every instance. Much of what science 'takes for granted' is only true here on Earth, or in some cases in microgravity as in orbit. But as our complete guesswork about black holes demonstrates, much of our knowledge is still incomplete.

As we hoped the higg's boson imparts gravity onto larger particles. But as is always the case, the higg's is not the smallest most indivisable particle and is actually made up of several quarks. And they're made up of even smaller things. On down to infinity. Thus while we may discover things about the universe and how things work, the 'it works' depends on halting investigation to some scale. If you went further you'd discover there's yet more to discover and figure out.

But because we don't understand things so completely doesn't mean that some conscious sentient being we call God is responsible. That's just taking the laxy way out and instead of doing the work and investigating we give credit to God and end the inquiry.

The major problem in all those discussions is, that rarely one of the participants is a theoretical physicist.
But as far as I understood does not the Higgs boson as a particle act as a mass generating agent, but the constantly everywhere existing Higgs field. Whatever that is. The explanation seems to be that Higgs Bosons have a mass by themselves, therefore produce the Higgs field wich then interacts with massles particles who interact with the Higs field like Quarks and stuff.
Particles like Photons do not interact with the field, therefore have no mass.
Gravity itself is then an exchange of massless particles in this field, like if you move something with an electric load in a magnetic field this results in a force. This force seems to be the gravity.

This still would not explain what this force is as such. Actually nobody is in a position to explain what force, or energy, are as such either. If I lift my beerglass I apply force on it. I can feel it. But what is force? The tension in my muscles, yes. But that does not explain it. We can break it down further and then end up at the Higg field again.

Basically I think that we do not have the correct words for this phenomena in our languages. They are based upon our physical existance and not at all suitable for the mysteries of quantum physics.

 

[indiajo]

I'm sorry dude, but if you think evolution explains the origin of life, then its you that doesn't understand evolution......

Of course it does. Evolution does not start with monkeys.
It starts with the first self replicating molecule. Whatever that was.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I'm sorry dude, but if you think evolution explains the origin of life, then its you that doesn't understand evolution......

Of course it does. Evolution does not start with monkeys.
It starts with the first self replicating molecule. Whatever that was.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong.....evolution explains changes from one species of living creature to another.....no living creature to start with, no evolution......