When is King Solomon Temple going to be rebuilt in Jerusalem?.

[Anguille]

Know what I'd like to see?

Someone in an airplane, pancake the fucker right in the center of the mosque in Jerusalem.

THEN we could start re-building the Temple.

Incidentally, Solomon's Temple was the one that was destroyed last. The next one will probably just be called "the Temple of Israel".

Personally? I wouldn't give 2 shits if IsLAME was wiped out overnight. Good riddance I'd say, because ANY belief system or faith that states there is only 1 way to God is wrong.

There are MANY ways to Him. Judaism, some branches of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism.


I think we all understand God in our own unique way, which is why Christians and Islamics make me tend to not trust them.

Heck.........even Judaism is tolerant of other religions. Check the B'Neih Noach for that one.

No...King Herod's was the last.

Personally I think leaving a Mosque on the temple rock is like Muslims taking a big steaming dump on Israel.


Here's a good question....which religion came first. The Jewish or the Islamic religion. What right does a Muslim have to the temple land in the first place. Back 2000 years ago there was no Islam and thus all this fighting over the land shouldn't include Islam anyway.

In that case it belongs to the pagans since they were there before both the Jews and the Muslims. Or perhaps to the atheists, since that was what humans were before they invented religion.

 

[Anguille]

Oh yeah........cannabis also helps delay the onset of Alzheimer's, so, unlike you, I'm not going to go senile.

You apparently, have already went screaming past the finish line at a high rate of speed.

Besides...........plants aren't drugs. They're plants.

I see you did well in Chemistry.

Senility already seems to have set in with you, Biker, so maybe you should start lighting up before breakfast instead of after.

 

[Anguille]

When the Arabs had the spot, Jews weren't even allowed access to their holiest site.

Once again, the double standard from Israel haters

Heck the Jews still don't have access to it under Jewish rule!

What do you mean by that?

Jews do have access to the Wailing Wall, just not to the Temple Mount mosque.

I was surprised to read this as I have never been denied entry to any mosque I've visited so I did a bit of research:
Dome of the Rock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Accessibility


Sign at visitors entrance to Temple Mount.


It is maintained by the Ministry of Awaqaf in Jordan.[11]
Until the mid-nineteenth century, non-Muslims were not permitted in the area. Since 1967, non-Muslims have been permitted limited access, however non-Muslims are not permitted to pray on the Temple Mount.[12]
In 2006, the compound was reopened to non-Muslim visitors between the hours of 7:30-11:30 a.m. and 1:30-2:30 p.m. during Summer and 7:30-10:30 a.m. and 1:30-2:30 p.m. during Winter. Non-Muslims are prohibited from entering after 2:30 p.m. and may not enter on Fridays, Saturdays, or Muslim holidays. Entry is through a wooden walkway next to the entrance to the Hebrew Western Wall. Non-Muslims are prohibited from entering the mosques and accessing the Temple Mount through the Cotton Market. Visitors are subject to strict security screening, and items such as Jewish prayerbooks and instruments are prohibited.
Many Orthodox rabbis regard the rules of entry to the compound to be a violation of Jewish law. This is based on the belief that since the time the Temple was destroyed during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE, the precise location of the Holy of Holies, the sanctuary entered only by the High Priest, is not known. Hence a restriction applies to the entire compound. However, other rabbis believe that modern archeological and other evidence has enabled them to identify areas that can be safely entered without violating Jewish law.[13]"

So apparently the Muslims are more tolerant towards allowing Jews to enter the compound than are the Jews themselves.

 

[Anguille]

If King Solomon's temple were to be rebuilt would that mean that Jews would reinstate the practices of ancient Judaism for which the original temple was built? That would mean a return to animal sacrifice and polytheism among other things. Judaism today, particularly Reform Judaism, barely resembles the religion of the Jews of King Solomon's tiime. To rebuild the First Temple would be a step backwards for Judaism.

 

[Anguille]

In Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism

Reform Judaism and Reconstructionist Judaism disavow all belief in a restoration of a Temple, the resumption of Korbanot, or the continuation of identified Kohanim or Levites. These branches of Judaism believe that all such practices represent ancient practices inconsistent with the requirements of modernity, and have removed all or virtually all references to Korbanot from their prayer books.
....
Korban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CMike]

If King Solomon's temple were to be rebuilt would that mean that Jews would reinstate the practices of ancient Judaism for which the original temple was built? That would mean a return to animal sacrifice and polytheism among other things. Judaism today, particularly Reform Judaism, barely resembles the religion of the Jews of King Solomon's tiime. To rebuild the First Temple would be a step backwards for Judaism.

Polytheism?

 

[Anguille]

If King Solomon's temple were to be rebuilt would that mean that Jews would reinstate the practices of ancient Judaism for which the original temple was built? That would mean a return to animal sacrifice and polytheism among other things. Judaism today, particularly Reform Judaism, barely resembles the religion of the Jews of King Solomon's tiime. To rebuild the First Temple would be a step backwards for Judaism.

Polytheism?

I saw an interesting show on PBS earlier this month. It might have been Nova. According to archeological studies before the Exodus after Solomon's temple was destroyed by the Babylonians, Jews worshipped other minor gods, while regarding Yahweh as the head god. They worshipped idols as well and one household item found at many sites was a figure of Yaweh's wife.

I just now Googled "Yahweh's wife" and found many refernces to her :


Married Deities: Asherah and Yahweh in Early Israelite Religion | Biblical Hebrew Blog |

A Divine Marriage in Judah & Israel
A similar picture has been suggested in regards to the early religious life of the Israelites and Judahites. There exists some evidence from archaeology that many people also worshipped the god Yahweh with a female consort called Asherah. (See Kuntillet Ajrud and the Khirbet el-Qom Inscriptions). In fact it is not just extra-biblical evidence that can be cited in support of this older version of how the heavens were ordered, but the bible itself reveals a picture that seems to place Asherah in a legitimate position of worship early on in the religion of the nation. For example we are told that Asherah (generally believed to by a stylized tree or pole, possibly a date palm) was installed in the Temple of Jerusalem and in other sanctuaries around Judah at different times (2 Kings 18:4; 21:7).
Some have suggested that even the decorations used inside the Temple, the “cherubim, palmettes and calyxes” (1 Kings 6) helped to legitimize her position since she was worshipped in the form of a tree, and the decorations inside the Temple upheld the ancient motif of the Tree of Life flanked by two guards (like in the Garden of Eden story). This picture from Judah is likewise reflected in the northern kingdom of Israel. King Jehu who was a great religious conservative, destroyed the worship of Baal that had sprung up in Israel, but did not destroy the Asherah that was installed in his capital city of Samaria. This particular story seems to reveal that early religion in Israel was pro-Asherah and that such a position was in step with being a conservative follower of Yahweh.

 

[GHook93]

When the Arabs had the spot, Jews weren't even allowed access to their holiest site.

Once again, the double standard from Israel haters

Heck the Jews still don't have access to it under Jewish rule!

What do you mean by that?

Jews do have access to the Wailing Wall, just not to the Temple Mount mosque.

The Wailing Wall Yes (I have been there), but the Wailing Wall is only remnants of the great temple, the insides of the Temple Mount is where the Dome on the Rock sits. Jews are not allowed to pray in that area and are mostly not allowed to go there either!

 

[GHook93]

Heck the Jews still don't have access to it under Jewish rule!

What do you mean by that?

Jews do have access to the Wailing Wall, just not to the Temple Mount mosque.

I was surprised to read this as I have never been denied entry to any mosque I've visited so I did a bit of research:
Dome of the Rock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Accessibility


Sign at visitors entrance to Temple Mount.


It is maintained by the Ministry of Awaqaf in Jordan.[11]
Until the mid-nineteenth century, non-Muslims were not permitted in the area. Since 1967, non-Muslims have been permitted limited access, however non-Muslims are not permitted to pray on the Temple Mount.[12]
In 2006, the compound was reopened to non-Muslim visitors between the hours of 7:30-11:30 a.m. and 1:30-2:30 p.m. during Summer and 7:30-10:30 a.m. and 1:30-2:30 p.m. during Winter. Non-Muslims are prohibited from entering after 2:30 p.m. and may not enter on Fridays, Saturdays, or Muslim holidays. Entry is through a wooden walkway next to the entrance to the Hebrew Western Wall. Non-Muslims are prohibited from entering the mosques and accessing the Temple Mount through the Cotton Market. Visitors are subject to strict security screening, and items such as Jewish prayerbooks and instruments are prohibited.
Many Orthodox rabbis regard the rules of entry to the compound to be a violation of Jewish law. This is based on the belief that since the time the Temple was destroyed during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE, the precise location of the Holy of Holies, the sanctuary entered only by the High Priest, is not known. Hence a restriction applies to the entire compound. However, other rabbis believe that modern archeological and other evidence has enabled them to identify areas that can be safely entered without violating Jewish law.[13]"

So apparently the Muslims are more tolerant towards allowing Jews to enter the compound than are the Jews themselves.

Wow you are a master of twisting things, you should could be university professor!

 

[Shogun]

What do you mean by that?

Jews do have access to the Wailing Wall, just not to the Temple Mount mosque.

I was surprised to read this as I have never been denied entry to any mosque I've visited so I did a bit of research:
Dome of the Rock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Accessibility


Sign at visitors entrance to Temple Mount.


It is maintained by the Ministry of Awaqaf in Jordan.[11]
Until the mid-nineteenth century, non-Muslims were not permitted in the area. Since 1967, non-Muslims have been permitted limited access, however non-Muslims are not permitted to pray on the Temple Mount.[12]
In 2006, the compound was reopened to non-Muslim visitors between the hours of 7:30-11:30 a.m. and 1:30-2:30 p.m. during Summer and 7:30-10:30 a.m. and 1:30-2:30 p.m. during Winter. Non-Muslims are prohibited from entering after 2:30 p.m. and may not enter on Fridays, Saturdays, or Muslim holidays. Entry is through a wooden walkway next to the entrance to the Hebrew Western Wall. Non-Muslims are prohibited from entering the mosques and accessing the Temple Mount through the Cotton Market. Visitors are subject to strict security screening, and items such as Jewish prayerbooks and instruments are prohibited.
Many Orthodox rabbis regard the rules of entry to the compound to be a violation of Jewish law. This is based on the belief that since the time the Temple was destroyed during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE, the precise location of the Holy of Holies, the sanctuary entered only by the High Priest, is not known. Hence a restriction applies to the entire compound. However, other rabbis believe that modern archeological and other evidence has enabled them to identify areas that can be safely entered without violating Jewish law.[13]"

So apparently the Muslims are more tolerant towards allowing Jews to enter the compound than are the Jews themselves.

Wow you are a master of twisting things, you should could be university professor!

if this is your reaction to posted evidence it's no wonder why you rely on the Scarlet A reflex like a fish does water.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Oh yeah........cannabis also helps delay the onset of Alzheimer's, so, unlike you, I'm not going to go senile.

You apparently, have already went screaming past the finish line at a high rate of speed.

Besides...........plants aren't drugs. They're plants.

I see you did well in Chemistry.

Senility already seems to have set in with you, Biker, so maybe you should start lighting up before breakfast instead of after.

I'll be civil the first time, but after that, I won't guarantee anything.........

What exactly DO you know about cannabis, it's effects on the body and brain, and is it real science and physiology, or, like your idiot beliefs that Jews were polytheistic, is it based on bullshit you picked up from some blog?

Me? I was trained to know about stuff like that.

 

[Shogun]

dude... being a plant doesn't make something NOT a drug.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yes......it does..........because the plants have things in them other than just the active substance.

Drugs are created when something is refined to the point where only the active substance remains.

 

[Shogun]

listen.. dude.. just because a plant has chloroplast doesn't mean that a marijuana plant is not a drug. Same with the poppy and a whole range of killer plants whose drug components affect the imbiber.

 

[ABikerSailor]

listen.. dude.. just because a plant has chloroplast doesn't mean that a marijuana plant is not a drug. Same with the poppy and a whole range of killer plants whose drug components affect the imbiber.

What's your opinion? Legalization or not, and why?

 

[Shogun]

you know i'm for legalization. But, not under false pretenses. decriminalization via constructed terminology and medical farces only validates the concern from those against legalization about the bait and switch nature of reform. I'd rather it be legal because I like to smoke it than pretend I have back problems or redefining nomenclature to force fit definitions. ie, marijuana the plant IS a drug.


and I LIKE it.

 

[ABikerSailor]

On the status of cannabis we disagree.

But, on the rest? Total agreement. Incidentally, I personally think that legalization would be an excellent solution right now.

Why? Simple actually..........ginko bilboa (recommended many years by doctors as a treatment for Alzheimer's), has now been show to be ineffective (as in zero results, positive or otherwise).

However..........Harvard Medical and the Royal British Medical Society have both stated, and backed up with facts, that THC in smoked cannabis has been proven to help slow the disease.

Incidentally, did you know that the drug Marinol (THC) is actually LESS EFFECTIVE than smoked cannabis?

Not only is it something to do with the vehicle to get it into your body (15 seconds to effect when smoked, 45 minutes to effect when orally ingested), but it seems that the plant material in it works symbiotically to help the body process it better.

 

[The Rabbi]

Again, get to the point or I'm not interested. Frankly, I don't care enough about your opinion to research it for you. Tell me yourself.

Please don't cause this discussion to degrade further by playing the arrogant Jew; proving me wrong requires making your position clear, which you have yet to do.

Do you understand what it means to call someone "Messiah"?

Yes. Now why is it that you take issue with Jesus' (AS) Messiah status in Islam? Jesus was the "Messiah" that attempted to bring salvation to those Jews who had been led astray. This view is entirely consistent with scripture and mainstream Sunni belief.

Messiah means "annointed". A Messiah is someone who has been picked to do a job. Every king of ancient Israel was called Messiah. So the word is not so special, in fact. It is a title, but it doesn't particularly elevate one to divine status. But the Christians would argue that Jesus was Messiah; and that means he was the Son of God, who would bring salvation etc. A whole new package.

The Jews expected the coming of a Messiah who would deliver them from pagan rulers, when they had been oppressed by them for a long time before Jesus' time.

Jesus was this Messiah expected by the Jews; and Muslims have no trouble in accepting that. But the Christians put a new gloss on the word "Messiah" and say that he was much more than what the Jews or the Muslims believe him to have been. This is unacceptable to us.

- Prof. Sahul Hameed

IslamonLine.net
​

THis is a gross misunderstanding of the term messiah, which is clearly supposed to refer to the king.
Additionally it is muddle headed, reducing "messiah" to the level of prophet, which it is clearly not.
Further it is contradictory to say Jesus was the messiah who would deliver the Jews from foreign rulers when he did not such thing. In fact immediately after his time the temple was destroyed and the Jews scattered into exile.
So Muslims accept Jesus as the messiah in the same sense that they accept pork as hallal.

 

[Anguille]

What do you mean by that?

Jews do have access to the Wailing Wall, just not to the Temple Mount mosque.

I was surprised to read this as I have never been denied entry to any mosque I've visited so I did a bit of research:
Dome of the Rock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Accessibility


Sign at visitors entrance to Temple Mount.


It is maintained by the Ministry of Awaqaf in Jordan.[11]
Until the mid-nineteenth century, non-Muslims were not permitted in the area. Since 1967, non-Muslims have been permitted limited access, however non-Muslims are not permitted to pray on the Temple Mount.[12]
In 2006, the compound was reopened to non-Muslim visitors between the hours of 7:30-11:30 a.m. and 1:30-2:30 p.m. during Summer and 7:30-10:30 a.m. and 1:30-2:30 p.m. during Winter. Non-Muslims are prohibited from entering after 2:30 p.m. and may not enter on Fridays, Saturdays, or Muslim holidays. Entry is through a wooden walkway next to the entrance to the Hebrew Western Wall. Non-Muslims are prohibited from entering the mosques and accessing the Temple Mount through the Cotton Market. Visitors are subject to strict security screening, and items such as Jewish prayerbooks and instruments are prohibited.
Many Orthodox rabbis regard the rules of entry to the compound to be a violation of Jewish law. This is based on the belief that since the time the Temple was destroyed during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE, the precise location of the Holy of Holies, the sanctuary entered only by the High Priest, is not known. Hence a restriction applies to the entire compound. However, other rabbis believe that modern archeological and other evidence has enabled them to identify areas that can be safely entered without violating Jewish law.[13]"

So apparently the Muslims are more tolerant towards allowing Jews to enter the compound than are the Jews themselves.

Wow you are a master of twisting things, you should could be university professor!

Thank you for the compliment, GHook, but I do not see where I have twisted anything. I merely summarized the Wiki article. I was surprised as you were to discover that the restrictions on Jews entering the Temple Mount made by Jews themselves are harsher than those made by the Muslims. From what I also read about the rituals practiced in Solomon's temple, during King Solomon's time ordinary Jews were forbidden from entering the inner sanctums of the temple back then as well. It appears that an ordinary Jew has more opportunity to enter nowadays thanks to the Muslims than an ordinary Jew ever had in the past.

If you have evidence to the contrary please share it with us. Being an atheist, I am not biased on either side. I am only interested in understanding the situation as it really is so as to have an informed opinion of whether or not the Dome of the Rock mosque should be razed so that King Solomon's temple could be reconstructed.

I also wonder how much is actually known about the original temple. Could an accurate facsimile actually be created considering how little archeological record still exists?

 

[Sodafin]

Just to add in a bit of detail here - westerners can enter Temple Mount. I've been twice.

However, whether or not you can enter them mosque varies from time to time. On my first trip I could, but 2 years ago I couldn't.

Incidentally, as I remember it, the act which began the Intifadah was Ariel Sharon entering Temple Mount...