when do we build our own iron curtain?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by DKSuddeth, Jun 21, 2004.

  1. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    news link

    WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Monday that people do not have a constitutional right to refuse to tell police their names.

    The 5-4 decision frees the government to arrest and punish people who won't cooperate by revealing their identity.

    Privacy advocates have argued such a ruling could let the government force people who have done nothing wrong to submit to fingerprinting or give up more personal information.

    Police had argued that identity requests are a normal part of their work, including efforts to get information on terrorists.

    The ruling upholds a Nevada rancher's misdemeanor conviction. He was arrested after he told a law officer he didn't have to reveal his name or show an ID. The dissenting justices say the rancher acted "well within" his rights.
     
  2. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Are we guaranteed in the Constitution the right to anonymity. If everyone had this right and used it to its full extent, what would we be left with? John and Jane Does I guess. It's just not practical IMHO.
     
  3. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    what we're losing is the ability to keep government out of our lives. as americans become more comfortable with being an 'open book' to law enforcement while they chant 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' and accuse others of hiding something, when they hold those personal rights near, we will cease to be a free nation with a government elected by the people and we'll become a people ruled by a tyranny.
     
  4. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    Yes. Our right to withhold our identification from law enforcement is certainly worth getting in a hissy over. NOT! And how dare Howard Stern not be allowed to say TITTIES over the airwaves. CENSORSHIP!:D
     
  5. HGROKIT
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    HGROKIT Active Member

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    Although I am not entirely convinced about the tyranny part, I do agree with the underlying premise of the post.

    If I am walking down the street, minding my own business, have done nothing wrong, no one, not even the cops have a right to query me about my identity. There is no probable cause.

    However, the man discussed in the article was stopped pursuant to probable cause (definition and explanation http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/315/315lect06.htm ) of assault. His assertion at a later time was that his 4th and 5th amendment rights were being violated. Here I agree with the court. If probable causes exists and is sufficient, then the cops should be able to determine who you are.

    "Routine" requests however should be denied IMO and I will do so when asked; unless the cop can comple me otherwise :D.

    There was a thread on this a couple weeks ago? Maybe I am just confusing it with an article I read dealing with the same subject, but in this article, the author clearly stated precedent that protects someone that chooses not to identify themselves or something to that effect. I will search and see if I can find it as it was interesting.
     
  6. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    you are right. It was argued more than a year ago about showing ID, with probably cause, and as far as the rancher in question goes he didn't really have an argument. What the court has done today is opened the doors up for random ID spot checks, much like they cleared the way for random checkpoints on highways a few years ago.
     
  7. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    DK, I agree with you. It would be one thing if you tried to withhold your identity if you were being arrested. But no one should be forced to identify themselves to authorities on demand.
     
  8. Comrade
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    Comrade Senior Member

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    Which opens up a whole new can of worms.

    In the couse of checking an ID the citizen is subject to host of other intrusive measures... what's that I smell? What's that in your pocket? Why are your eyes glazed over?

    Dammit just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water!
     
  9. HGROKIT
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    HGROKIT Active Member

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    I think this is what I remember reading http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...oc+personal+identification+requirements&hl=en

    I think it is gemane to this thread as it appears contradictory to what the courts have ruled.

    Explain to me how the court can state that an individual must show an ID on demand, but most of our states do not reuire ID to vote. This is where I beging to have severe problems with what our government does and how it functions. Kind of like the left hand right hand - and who the hell is in charge?
     
  10. HGROKIT
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    HGROKIT Active Member

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    That is part of what I am trying to find.
     

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