What's your position on a universal minimum income?

What is your position regarding a universal minimum income for adults?

  • There should be none. It should be zero.

    Votes: 17 63.0%
  • It is ok if it is low, maybe just enough to be above the universal poverty line ($5,000 / year)

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Yes, everyone should receive the minimum wage ($18,000 / year)

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • It should be the average between median individual income and the universal poverty line ($18,600)

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • It should be the average between the minimum wage and the median individual income (25,070)

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 7.4%

  • Total voters
    27
i think we should audit the drug war and our wars on crime, poverty, and terror, instead of the Fed.

Why not all?
the fed is a profit center not a cost center; if there is any exigency at all, it must be with cost centers, first.

A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?
Profit Center

Daniel,
The Fed is not a profit center. It just regulates interest rates , supplies the currency and regulates banks.
As per my previous post, if the bailout exceeded 7.7 T it was not by far a profit center and it just made US public debt worse.
We cannot ignore the market based reality of market based metrics; only the national socialist right wing, does that.

Federal Reserve Sent $92 Billion in Profit to U.S. Treasury in 2016--https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-reserve-sent-92-billion-in-profit-to-u-s-treasury-in-2016-1484067602
 
Doesn't the same argument hold true when income tax is reduced?
Prices should go up because everyone has more money to spend?

First of all, everyone doesn't have more money to spend. Only income tax payers get to keep more of the money they earned. It's not free money that everybody gets. The amounts vary depending on your income and some will get nothing. But, generally speaking, any time the market has more expendable resources it increases demand and if supply remains the same, prices go up. With tax cuts, especially on the top marginal incomes, the results are more supply oriented, businesses are expanded which increases supply. This means lower prices.

A good exercise with proposals such as yours is to amplify them and examine potential results. Why not give everyone $50,000? Or better yet, let's give everybody, including the homeless bums, $500,000! Why wouldn't this be awesome? If your idea is good, this should be phenomenal.... but you can imagine it wouldn't work. Why? Whatever reasons it wouldn't work are true with your proposal as well, all that is different is the scale.

Now, you will notice your proposal isn't very popular. According to the poll, 65% agree with me, there should be no minimum universal income. It's because most mature people who are capable of thinking above a 5-year-old level, understand that nothing is free. There isn't a magic money tree that can solve all our problems.
Yet, solving simple poverty on an at-will basis, harms no one and improves the efficiency of our economy at the same time.
 
I've always thought it was an interesting concept. Not sure if it would work in practicality. Given the rapidly increasing advances in technology more and more jobs done by humans are going to become obsolete. Down the road we may not have a choice.



In such a scenario, I demand NO FUCKING STRINGS.

No hoops, no requirements, no mandatory volunteering, no limitations, no restrictions on additional earnings,


NOTHING to make this an avenue for control by the vile statists assholes.
 
Why not all?
the fed is a profit center not a cost center; if there is any exigency at all, it must be with cost centers, first.

A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?
Profit Center

Daniel,
The Fed is not a profit center. It just regulates interest rates , supplies the currency and regulates banks.
As per my previous post, if the bailout exceeded 7.7 T it was not by far a profit center and it just made US public debt worse.
We cannot ignore the market based reality of market based metrics; only the national socialist right wing, does that.

Federal Reserve Sent $92 Billion in Profit to U.S. Treasury in 2016--https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-reserve-sent-92-billion-in-profit-to-u-s-treasury-in-2016-1484067602



Your gibberish contributes nothing other than an example of how lefties are dishonest and untrustworthy.
 
i think we should audit the drug war and our wars on crime, poverty, and terror, instead of the Fed.

Why not all?
the fed is a profit center not a cost center; if there is any exigency at all, it must be with cost centers, first.

A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?
Profit Center

Never thought you meant an actual profit center, as one might find at a for profit company.

I think you're wrong.

The Fed is the entity that in lieu of normal market supply and demand, determines the price of money. They also act as Congress's ATM machine, relieving our hallowed lawmakers from, you know, having to pay for all their fabulous ideas now in exchange for letting future generations pick up the bill for our largess.

I stand against central price controls over anything. But the point is, you seem to misunderstand what the Fed is all about. They are by no means a profit center.
dude; a central Bank is supposed to make money, not lose money.
 
the fed is a profit center not a cost center; if there is any exigency at all, it must be with cost centers, first.

A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?
Profit Center

Daniel,
The Fed is not a profit center. It just regulates interest rates , supplies the currency and regulates banks.
As per my previous post, if the bailout exceeded 7.7 T it was not by far a profit center and it just made US public debt worse.
We cannot ignore the market based reality of market based metrics; only the national socialist right wing, does that.

Federal Reserve Sent $92 Billion in Profit to U.S. Treasury in 2016--https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-reserve-sent-92-billion-in-profit-to-u-s-treasury-in-2016-1484067602

Your gibberish contributes nothing other than an example of how lefties are dishonest and untrustworthy.
only the national socialist right wing, is infidel, protestant, and renegade to the market based metrics of Capitalism.

Federal Reserve Sent $92 Billion in Profit to U.S. Treasury in 2016--https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-reserve-sent-92-billion-in-profit-to-u-s-treasury-in-2016-1484067602
 
A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?
Profit Center

Daniel,
The Fed is not a profit center. It just regulates interest rates , supplies the currency and regulates banks.
As per my previous post, if the bailout exceeded 7.7 T it was not by far a profit center and it just made US public debt worse.
We cannot ignore the market based reality of market based metrics; only the national socialist right wing, does that.

Federal Reserve Sent $92 Billion in Profit to U.S. Treasury in 2016--https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-reserve-sent-92-billion-in-profit-to-u-s-treasury-in-2016-1484067602

Your gibberish contributes nothing other than an example of how lefties are dishonest and untrustworthy.
only the national socialist right wing, is infidel, protestant, and renegade to the market based metrics of Capitalism.

Federal Reserve Sent $92 Billion in Profit to U.S. Treasury in 2016--https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-reserve-sent-92-billion-in-profit-to-u-s-treasury-in-2016-1484067602



You should never use the term "national socialist right wing" again. Nothing in contributed to the conversation by your use of that term, no matter what meaning you think it holds.
 
I have been getting an education every single day of my life: I am a computer scientist, and I am actually very concerned about the advances in AI, many jobs are going to be destroyed in the next 20 years, it is going to be very hard for people to retool for the kind jobs that will be needed .

Yo, if you`re concerned about your future? I suggest you start getting into another job now, you can start driving a Big Rig, cost you nothing, join a trucking company who will pay for your training, and you can make more or the same as you`re making now! People need to use their GOD giving Brain, simple!!!

P.S. You Might Get Your Hands Dirty, But You Can Pay Your Bills, And Fill Your Stomach!!!

"GTP"
View attachment 112929

Driving anything is a short term solution. No longer a good career choice as driverless cars and trucks are going to put millions of drivers out of work in the near future. By near future, I mean less than 20 years and most likely we'll start seeing a big effect in fewer than 10 years.

Yo, I see what you`re saying, BUT? I can`t see a Big Rig going down the highway without a driver!

"GTP"
View attachment 113395

You will.

No driver error and a rig could go coast to coast stopping only for fuel. Modern airplanes can take off, complete their flight and land without a pilot touching hardly a thing.

Until the computer fails and causes a wreck, or hackers take over the truck. The regulations imposed will be huge
Until Hackers take over... So the solution is to get rid of the humans.
 

Daniel,
The Fed is not a profit center. It just regulates interest rates , supplies the currency and regulates banks.
As per my previous post, if the bailout exceeded 7.7 T it was not by far a profit center and it just made US public debt worse.
We cannot ignore the market based reality of market based metrics; only the national socialist right wing, does that.

Federal Reserve Sent $92 Billion in Profit to U.S. Treasury in 2016--https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-reserve-sent-92-billion-in-profit-to-u-s-treasury-in-2016-1484067602

Your gibberish contributes nothing other than an example of how lefties are dishonest and untrustworthy.
only the national socialist right wing, is infidel, protestant, and renegade to the market based metrics of Capitalism.

Federal Reserve Sent $92 Billion in Profit to U.S. Treasury in 2016--https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-reserve-sent-92-billion-in-profit-to-u-s-treasury-in-2016-1484067602



You should never use the term "national socialist right wing" again. Nothing in contributed to the conversation by your use of that term, no matter what meaning you think it holds.
nothing but diversion, right winger?

we should be auditing cost centers, not profit centers.
 
Then you're jumping over to try and sell it by tacitly implying it will be replacing all the assorted other "social welfare" we currently do... and you know that won't be the case in reality. You're not going to get rid of Medicaid and Food Stamps, Disability, WIC, AFDC, Section 8 housing or school lunch programs... you're still going to have those and this is going to be in addition to what we're already providing. Let's not be goofy. Yeah... if we can simultaneously ABOLISH all federal social assistance programs and replace that with a $5k a year "minimum income" check... I'm all for it! But that ain't ever gonna happen and you know that.
No Boss , I am not jumping at anything . Had you watched the interview with Milton Friedman I posted in a previous post you would have noticed that.
And yes , it is probable that it will not happen, but looking at how inefficient are medicaid and medicare are ( and the whole medical establishment in the US in general) I do think a minimum income is a better solution.
 
Daniel,
The Fed is not a profit center. It just regulates interest rates , supplies the currency and regulates banks.
As per my previous post, if the bailout exceeded 7.7 T it was not by far a profit center and it just made US public debt worse.
We cannot ignore the market based reality of market based metrics; only the national socialist right wing, does that.

Federal Reserve Sent $92 Billion in Profit to U.S. Treasury in 2016--https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-reserve-sent-92-billion-in-profit-to-u-s-treasury-in-2016-1484067602

Your gibberish contributes nothing other than an example of how lefties are dishonest and untrustworthy.
only the national socialist right wing, is infidel, protestant, and renegade to the market based metrics of Capitalism.

Federal Reserve Sent $92 Billion in Profit to U.S. Treasury in 2016--https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-reserve-sent-92-billion-in-profit-to-u-s-treasury-in-2016-1484067602



You should never use the term "national socialist right wing" again. Nothing in contributed to the conversation by your use of that term, no matter what meaning you think it holds.
nothing but diversion, right winger?

we should be auditing cost centers, not profit centers.


I'm the only one here trying to talk sense to you.

YOu are, at best, a dishonest ass.

At worst, you have a real social disorder, that I hope is being treated.
 
Yo, if you`re concerned about your future? I suggest you start getting into another job now, you can start driving a Big Rig, cost you nothing, join a trucking company who will pay for your training, and you can make more or the same as you`re making now! People need to use their GOD giving Brain, simple!!!

P.S. You Might Get Your Hands Dirty, But You Can Pay Your Bills, And Fill Your Stomach!!!

"GTP"
View attachment 112929

Driving anything is a short term solution. No longer a good career choice as driverless cars and trucks are going to put millions of drivers out of work in the near future. By near future, I mean less than 20 years and most likely we'll start seeing a big effect in fewer than 10 years.

Yo, I see what you`re saying, BUT? I can`t see a Big Rig going down the highway without a driver!

"GTP"
View attachment 113395

You will.

No driver error and a rig could go coast to coast stopping only for fuel. Modern airplanes can take off, complete their flight and land without a pilot touching hardly a thing.

Until the computer fails and causes a wreck, or hackers take over the truck. The regulations imposed will be huge
Until Hackers take over... So the solution is to get rid of the humans.

Some devices should be disconnected from the net . I personally think the navigation subsistem is one of those devices.
 
We cannot ignore the market based reality of market based metrics; only the national socialist right wing, does that.

Your gibberish contributes nothing other than an example of how lefties are dishonest and untrustworthy.
only the national socialist right wing, is infidel, protestant, and renegade to the market based metrics of Capitalism.

Federal Reserve Sent $92 Billion in Profit to U.S. Treasury in 2016--https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-reserve-sent-92-billion-in-profit-to-u-s-treasury-in-2016-1484067602



You should never use the term "national socialist right wing" again. Nothing in contributed to the conversation by your use of that term, no matter what meaning you think it holds.
nothing but diversion, right winger?

we should be auditing cost centers, not profit centers.


I'm the only one here trying to talk sense to you.

YOu are, at best, a dishonest ass.

At worst, you have a real social disorder, that I hope is being treated.
you need more than fallacy, right winger.
 
Nope,
I am not being facetious. I will be blunt: bankers can create money by increasing debt. When private debt exceeds a certain level ( typically 150% of gdp) a crisis happens: consumption is reduced, sales decline, layoffs increase... etc.
How is that not greed? And why should bankers have the privilege of creating money and get away with murder ( aka bailed out) ?
Why not rescue the little folk ?

And let's be clear on this : banks never risk their own equity. In a worst case scenario they will use deposits to cover their arses.

Banks don't create money, that would be the Federal Reserve. That money, through a circuitous route, finds its way to the stock market, enriching the very rich. Thank you, President Obama.
 
Nope,
I am not being facetious. I will be blunt: bankers can create money by increasing debt. When private debt exceeds a certain level ( typically 150% of gdp) a crisis happens: consumption is reduced, sales decline, layoffs increase... etc.
How is that not greed? And why should bankers have the privilege of creating money and get away with murder ( aka bailed out) ?
Why not rescue the little folk ?

And let's be clear on this : banks never risk their own equity. In a worst case scenario they will use deposits to cover their arses.

Banks don't create money, that would be the Federal Reserve. That money, through a circuitous route, finds its way to the stock market, enriching the very rich. Thank you, President Obama.
Banks do create money. Every time they make a loan they create money out of thin air. They are only allowed to do a set percentage of their actual cash deposits but it's definitely created out of nothing.
 
Nope,
I am not being facetious. I will be blunt: bankers can create money by increasing debt. When private debt exceeds a certain level ( typically 150% of gdp) a crisis happens: consumption is reduced, sales decline, layoffs increase... etc.
How is that not greed? And why should bankers have the privilege of creating money and get away with murder ( aka bailed out) ?
Why not rescue the little folk ?

And let's be clear on this : banks never risk their own equity. In a worst case scenario they will use deposits to cover their arses.

Banks don't create money, that would be the Federal Reserve. That money, through a circuitous route, finds its way to the stock market, enriching the very rich. Thank you, President Obama.

Watch the video , then we will discuss:


And this one too. It is a bit hard to follow since the key point ( interbank loans ) are not shown as accounting transactions
 
Last edited:
Why not all?
the fed is a profit center not a cost center; if there is any exigency at all, it must be with cost centers, first.

A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?
Profit Center

Never thought you meant an actual profit center, as one might find at a for profit company.

I think you're wrong.

The Fed is the entity that in lieu of normal market supply and demand, determines the price of money. They also act as Congress's ATM machine, relieving our hallowed lawmakers from, you know, having to pay for all their fabulous ideas now in exchange for letting future generations pick up the bill fo

I stand against central price controls over anything. But the point is, you seem to misunderstand what the Fed is all about. They are by no means a profit center.
dude; a central Bank is supposed to make money, not lose money.

You are demonstrating a fundamental misunderstand of the role of the Federal Reserve. Their member banks are in this to make money, that's for sure, but the Fed is there not as a profit center, but to determine the price of money. They were given this power by Congress, so that Congress could fund their their projects without having to pay for is specifically through bods or heaven forbid, cash on hand.

To think of the Fed as nothing more than a profit center is dangerously simplistic at best. Take a deeper dive.
 
the fed is a profit center not a cost center; if there is any exigency at all, it must be with cost centers, first.

A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?
Profit Center

Never thought you meant an actual profit center, as one might find at a for profit company.

I think you're wrong.

The Fed is the entity that in lieu of normal market supply and demand, determines the price of money. They also act as Congress's ATM machine, relieving our hallowed lawmakers from, you know, having to pay for all their fabulous ideas now in exchange for letting future generations pick up the bill fo

I stand against central price controls over anything. But the point is, you seem to misunderstand what the Fed is all about. They are by no means a profit center.
dude; a central Bank is supposed to make money, not lose money.

You are demonstrating a fundamental misunderstand of the role of the Federal Reserve. Their member banks are in this to make money, that's for sure, but the Fed is there not as a profit center, but to determine the price of money. They were given this power by Congress, so that Congress could fund their their projects without having to pay for is specifically through bods or heaven forbid, cash on hand.

To think of the Fed as nothing more than a profit center is dangerously simplistic at best. Take a deeper dive.
not very relevant; degree of profit is merely special pleading. the Fed is a profit center not a cost center, like our War on Drugs.

audit cost centers, not profit centers.
 
A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?
Profit Center

Never thought you meant an actual profit center, as one might find at a for profit company.

I think you're wrong.

The Fed is the entity that in lieu of normal market supply and demand, determines the price of money. They also act as Congress's ATM machine, relieving our hallowed lawmakers from, you know, having to pay for all their fabulous ideas now in exchange for letting future generations pick up the bill fo

I stand against central price controls over anything. But the point is, you seem to misunderstand what the Fed is all about. They are by no means a profit center.
dude; a central Bank is supposed to make money, not lose money.

Wallow in your simplicity. Nothing I can do to help you.

Good luck.
 

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