What's happened to us?

[Care4all]

it most certainly is,, if over my lifetime I've managed to earn 10 million dollars and stick it in the bank I've paid taxes on it,, I've paid taxes on the interest earned too, If I have a house worth 2 million dollars I've paid taxes when I bought it and I've paid taxes every single year thereafter,, I should after paying all these taxes be able to give my stuff that I have earned and already paid taxes on numerous times to my children without you government thugs asking for a 50% cut.

If over the years, you have earned 10 million and you only deposited this money in to a bank and you paid capital gains on the money earned over and above your initial, already taxed money, then you are absolutely correct....the inheritance tax would be extremely unfair....but it is SIMPLY NOT THE CASE with the individuals of multi millions that are subject to the tax.

you are off base on the mortgage deal....we are talking federal taxes and NOT property taxes that you and I and everyone that owns a home pays every year....this is the most ufair tax out there, in my opinion....it harms the many, by raping them of their own earned money every single year to repay a property tax for the home that you need to cover your head.

We are talking about the wealthiest, the ones who actually have to pay some in inheritance tax, where the eventual 7 million in exemption will not cover all of their assets and they actually have to pay some of the inheritance tax....

The GAO reports that these families own alot of things that have NEVER BEEN TAXED, take the Hilton's for example, their home estate, when purchased was perhaps worth 200k, and now it is work 25 million, passing this 25 million over to a child with the gain on the home value was never taxed as it would have been if he had sold it for the 25 million before he died, and all of the land acquisitions he made over the decades, that grew in value from a million to twenty million, if never sold, then never taxed on the gain of such investments....

When Hilton went public, and acquired a 50% stock ownership in the Hilton corporation, the value of the stock on the ipo was, let's say $10 bucks, and he held on to all of his stock for the last 40 or so years of his life, and when he dies the stock is worth $100 bucks a share for the 50,000 shares he owns, that's a 4.5 million dollar profit, that he never paid capital gains on because he failed to sell them before he died....but now handing them over to an heir at the 5 million worth instead of the $500k worth when he bought them....

THIS STUFF HAS NOT been taxed, not once, willow....if you really are interested, they have statistics supporting such on various government accountability sites....

care

 

[RetiredGySgt]

selfishness instead of selflessness.... greed.....imo, lead to the waxed cold feelings of society today....the me, me, me, me verses the "what can I do for my country",

Plus the removal of the family unit, due to the falling apart of the family farm and the industrial revolution's expansion...spreading to cities and regions, that drew the kids away from the farm, with machines to take their place....this made people more dependent on strangers or the government, than "family" because families were split hundreds to thousands of miles apart.

The 'family unit' was in pretty good shape throughout the first half of the 20th C., nearly all of which was non-agrarian economically. It was the family unit for the most part that saved individuals throughout the depression.

However much I admire Jefferson, blaming the economic engine is unlikely as a source for good or evil.

you are right that it wasn't just one thing...but wrong imo to leave out all possibilities of being spokes in the wheel that rolled downwards....

What are some of your ideas Annie, on why people don't care and how we evolved to that point...?

Care

The destruction of the American Family began in earnest in the 60's with the Liberal agenda. Now a days your children have more rights then the parents, or rather the Government uses the courts to make it so. Illegal Courts I might add. Family Courts are ILLEGAL. They do not assume innocent till proven guilty at all. They deny you the right to a trial by your peers as well. Further they claim they can do this because they are not criminal in nature, yet they take your children, they take your money and can lead to imprisonment.

 

[MaggieMae]

YouTube - 1951 General McArthur Big Parade in New York

This is such a telling video. Thousands of NY'ers pouring ticker tape all over famed General Douglas McArthur after his return from the Korean War in 1951. Today our military faces liberal, left wing protestors who spit at them and left-wing organizations like the ACLU and Human Rights Watch that think the people who go to war against a country should be tried for crimes against humanity.

Today, we punish the good, like Israel and the US and the military and honest taxpayers who have paid their mortgage on time, and we reward the bad like the Arab countries, people who skip out on their loan, the "Palestinians." If a four-star general returned home from war today, he would barely be recoginzed by anyone. Countries such as Iran and North Korea are threatening their neighbors and the United States is powerless to stop them. Why? Not because our military isn't the best and brightest in the world, but because no one cares anymore.

What's happened to us? As a society why do we reward the bad and punish the good? Do good and evil even exist in people's vocabularies anymore? What's happened to us? What's wrong with our society?

Nobody "spits on" Iraq/Afghanistan returning vets. I'll just start with that comment and read the others. The 60's era of angry hippies is over. Time you got over it too.

 

[HUGGY]

YouTube - 1951 General McArthur Big Parade in New York

This is such a telling video. Thousands of NY'ers pouring ticker tape all over famed General Douglas McArthur after his return from the Korean War in 1951. Today our military faces liberal, left wing protestors who spit at them and left-wing organizations like the ACLU and Human Rights Watch that think the people who go to war against a country should be tried for crimes against humanity.

Today, we punish the good, like Israel and the US and the military and honest taxpayers who have paid their mortgage on time, and we reward the bad like the Arab countries, people who skip out on their loan, the "Palestinians." If a four-star general returned home from war today, he would barely be recoginzed by anyone. Countries such as Iran and North Korea are threatening their neighbors and the United States is powerless to stop them. Why? Not because our military isn't the best and brightest in the world, but because no one cares anymore.

What's happened to us? As a society why do we reward the bad and punish the good? Do good and evil even exist in people's vocabularies anymore? What's happened to us? What's wrong with our society?

What's happened to us?


Even though I think you are a stupid fuck...I will dare to offer a serious answer.

Television happened to us. Worse..canned laughter on television happened to us. The insidious degradation of the public intellect and moral compass in the name of selling over informing is what happened to us.

Did you just call someone a stupid fuck THEN dare to proffer "television and canned laughter" as a "serious" response.

Dude ...

Yes.

Point in fact. I just saw two minutes ago the commentator on Fox refer to "government choosing the winners and losers" in respect to the auto manufacturers. The truth is that the forementioned businesses CHOSE thier own fates. Obama and his administration did not run the auto companies into the dirt. With limited resources the government has to help the recovery as much as they can or let them fail. Failure would be catastrophic. This to me is Fox blaming Obama for the criminaly bad judgement of the big three auto makers.

The question asked was what happenned to us and I am saying what and When we changed. You are glibly discounting my response as to what caused the change. I am aserting that WHEN television realised that they could make us laugh at things that were not neccesarily funny by laugh tracking us into laughing along with the laugh tracks they understood the power they held in swaying our opinions.

In a sense we have been intellectually bullied since then.

You are free to disagree but I know people high up in advertising personaly. They make big bank counting on the effect of which I speak.

Maybe you think you are just too "tough" to let your mind be "trained" by the tv. I doubt it.

Or maybe you are just a dick and like to put people down without any thought. I guess that is your perogative. If I had a MB like this I can't say I wouldn't do the same to posters I didn't agree with.

 

[MaggieMae]

I blame John Stamos, the Olsen Twins and the show Full House.

That show tore the heart out of America.

No, American Idol, So You Think You Can Dance, Big Brother, and Survivor ...

... they ruined America.

Yep. The tube and the Internet contribute mightily to the dumbing down of America. No doubt about it. I had seen the ads for a new show on TLC called "Southern Bells," so I watched it the other night just to see what it was all about, expecting to see some level of interest in something other than their beautiful bodies and the boyfriends who want to exploit their bodies. (Not that I'm picking on Southern bimbos exclusively; there's plenty of airheads all over the country.) But that show is so shallow and so dumb that I can't see it holding the interest of even an adolescent. And that kind of fantasy land crap is ALL OVER the independent cable channels so that even if a young person really WANTS to see something a little more serious that just might increase their brainpower along with the fantasy lifestyle, they are hard-pressed to find it.

 

[WillowTree]

it most certainly is,, if over my lifetime I've managed to earn 10 million dollars and stick it in the bank I've paid taxes on it,, I've paid taxes on the interest earned too, If I have a house worth 2 million dollars I've paid taxes when I bought it and I've paid taxes every single year thereafter,, I should after paying all these taxes be able to give my stuff that I have earned and already paid taxes on numerous times to my children without you government thugs asking for a 50% cut.

If over the years, you have earned 10 million and you only deposited this money in to a bank and you paid capital gains on the money earned over and above your initial, already taxed money, then you are absolutely correct....the inheritance tax would be extremely unfair....but it is SIMPLY NOT THE CASE with the individuals of multi millions that are subject to the tax.

you are off base on the mortgage deal.now just why does the federal gov. think they are entitled to half my home? doyathink???...we are talking federal taxes and NOT property taxes that you and I and everyone that owns a home pays every year....this is the most ufair tax out there, in my opinion....it harms the many, by raping them of their own earned money every single year to repay a property tax for the home that you need to cover your head.

We are talking about the wealthiest, the ones who actually have to pay some in inheritance tax, where the eventual 7 million in exemption will not cover all of their assets and they actually have to pay some of the inheritance tax....you keep excusing this theft cause it happens to the wealthiest,, that's not a good reason to rob someone cause he's wealthy.. that dog don't hunt.

The GAO reports that these families own alot of things that have NEVER BEEN TAXED, take the Hilton's for example, their home estate, when purchased was perhaps worth 200k, and now it is work 25 million, passing this 25 million over to a child with the gain on the home value was never taxed as it would have been if he had sold it for the 25 million before he died, and all of the land acquisitions he made over the decades, that grew in value from a million to twenty million, if never sold, then never taxed on the gain of such investments....

When Hilton went public, and acquired a 50% stock ownership in the Hilton corporation, the value of the stock on the ipo was, let's say $10 bucks, and he held on to all of his stock for the last 40 or so years of his life, and when he dies the stock is worth $100 bucks a share for the 50,000 shares he owns, that's a 4.5 million dollar profit, that he never paid capital gains on because he failed to sell them before he died....but now handing them over to an heir at the 5 million worth instead of the $500k worth when he bought them....

THIS STUFF HAS NOT been taxed, not once, willow....if you really are interested, they have statistics supporting such on various government accountability sites....

care

...

 

[jillian]

People stopped caring and forgot what liberty means and those who fought and still fight to ensure it

Why did they stop caring?

they didn't... but some people don't understand the difference between wars for liberty (there hasn't been one since WWII) and wars of choice....

 

[Avatar4321]

The people have become corrupt and turned from the God who blessed them with prosperity and freedom.

We as a people have become lazy and dishonest. We think we are entiteld to everything and if our neighbor has something we dont we hate them and bitch and moan about how life is unfair to us rather than buckling down and doing the work we need to do our duty and to accomplish what we want.

We have a media culture always telling people that the "cool" thing to do is to smoke pot, snort coke, shoot heroin, get drunk off our asses, and engage in random sex with everyone because it feels good. Im not saying its the media's fault, quite the opposite. the Media reflex the people. Parents arent raising their kids. Parents are more concerned about doing what feels good for themselves rather than what's in the best interest of their kid. To the point that they are willing to kill their children claiming justification through "choice".

We have a corrupt society and wonder why our politicians are corrupt. We wonder why all these bad things are happening to our nation and why we arent the people our parents and grandparents were. And unfortunately no one has the guts to actually do the hard things in life, to repent, to actively get people to change in their own life first and then in the lives of those around them. We deny the existence of truth and the path of happiness and wonder why we arent happy. We are apathetic to our lives and the lives around us.

And this isnt a partisan issue. This is an issue of severe importance for all people. We need to start by humbling ourselves and repenting. Thats the only way this corruption will cease. And thats going to take alot of work and sacrifice.

 

[MaggieMae]

It is called Entitlements and a cradle to grave system. The Liberals want to , and have forced most of it on us, create a society where everyone is beholding to the State so they can stay in power.

This entitlement bullshit is what weakened and destroyed Rome.

Ya think? You need some serious ancient history lessons. Rome fell because Julius Caeser overreached, being one of the first to attempt to install Rome and himself as World Leader.

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? This is what I have done."
-* Julius Caesar****

And, of course, he was wrong.

 

[Avatar4321]

they didn't... but some people don't understand the difference between wars for liberty (there hasn't been one since WWII) and wars of choice....

I agree. you dont have a clue what the difference is. A war of choice is for power. A war for liberty is a sacrifice to take out tyranny in all its forms.

The fact that you havent seen it happen since WWII shows that you dont even understand your own dichotemy.

 

[WillowTree]

YouTube - 1951 General McArthur Big Parade in New York

This is such a telling video. Thousands of NY'ers pouring ticker tape all over famed General Douglas McArthur after his return from the Korean War in 1951. Today our military faces liberal, left wing protestors who spit at them and left-wing organizations like the ACLU and Human Rights Watch that think the people who go to war against a country should be tried for crimes against humanity.

Today, we punish the good, like Israel and the US and the military and honest taxpayers who have paid their mortgage on time, and we reward the bad like the Arab countries, people who skip out on their loan, the "Palestinians." If a four-star general returned home from war today, he would barely be recoginzed by anyone. Countries such as Iran and North Korea are threatening their neighbors and the United States is powerless to stop them. Why? Not because our military isn't the best and brightest in the world, but because no one cares anymore.

What's happened to us? As a society why do we reward the bad and punish the good? Do good and evil even exist in people's vocabularies anymore? What's happened to us? What's wrong with our society?

Nobody "spits on" Iraq/Afghanistan returning vets. I'll just start with that comment and read the others. The 60's era of angry hippies is over. Time you got over it too.

uuummm hmmmm sure! ronnie reagan used to say "the trouble with liberals is they know so much that isn't so








[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il77LFoCtfc]YouTube - Iraq War Protestor Spits On Iraq War Vet 001[/ame]

 

[del]

It is called Entitlements and a cradle to grave system. The Liberals want to , and have forced most of it on us, create a society where everyone is beholding to the State so they can stay in power.

This entitlement bullshit is what weakened and destroyed Rome.

Ya think? You need some serious ancient history lessons. Rome fell because Julius Caeser overreached, being one of the first to attempt to install Rome and himself as World Leader.

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? This is what I have done."
-* Julius Caesar****

And, of course, he was wrong.

rome was around for 500 years after caesar crossed the rubicon.
rome was the western
world leader for all of that time.

what's your point?

 

[MaggieMae]

I suspect that after the war,, the "greatest generation" came home. mind you, we were just a few years past the great depression, but they didn't whine,, they rolled up their sleeves,, took mama outta the airplane and ship factories and put her back in the bedroom and made some babies, lots of babies and the men went back to work and to school,, and between 1945 and 1969 they put a man on the moon built the worlds best car, hamburger pizza pie, and moonpies too,, God we were good..65 years we've had of really quality living in the USA all built by determined people. so now,, here we are,, all these people are in their mid eighties and the democrwats mock them now as being useless and old irrelevant and "white" can't wait til they die( these olde people are the "hard choiches" the liberals are talking) about so they can register more illegal democrats.. These people's children are getting ready to retire in large large numbers,and these boomers have raised an entire generation of "me" people, give it to me,, I am entitled.. we are now in the golden age of marxism,, we take everthing you've ever worked for (don't believe me? look at the inheritence tax) and we give it to people who haven't worked for it.. they are too busy not working,at playing video games, buying 500 dollar sneakers..hanging out at the mall and and bla bla bla.. the America you once knew is gone, thanks in large part to liberalism and the ACLU..We seem to have handed away our liberty Kerry On!

Another WTF?! moment with our resident *genius* WillowTree.

 

[WillowTree]

I suspect that after the war,, the "greatest generation" came home. mind you, we were just a few years past the great depression, but they didn't whine,, they rolled up their sleeves,, took mama outta the airplane and ship factories and put her back in the bedroom and made some babies, lots of babies and the men went back to work and to school,, and between 1945 and 1969 they put a man on the moon built the worlds best car, hamburger pizza pie, and moonpies too,, God we were good..65 years we've had of really quality living in the USA all built by determined people. so now,, here we are,, all these people are in their mid eighties and the democrwats mock them now as being useless and old irrelevant and "white" can't wait til they die( these olde people are the "hard choiches" the liberals are talking) about so they can register more illegal democrats.. These people's children are getting ready to retire in large large numbers,and these boomers have raised an entire generation of "me" people, give it to me,, I am entitled.. we are now in the golden age of marxism,, we take everthing you've ever worked for (don't believe me? look at the inheritence tax) and we give it to people who haven't worked for it.. they are too busy not working,at playing video games, buying 500 dollar sneakers..hanging out at the mall and and bla bla bla.. the America you once knew is gone, thanks in large part to liberalism and the ACLU..We seem to have handed away our liberty Kerry On!

Another WTF?! moment with our resident *genius* WillowTree.

course dear libral,, you haven't been here long enough,, post election there was thread after thread after thread after thread telling us how insignificant old white people were,, yea,, right up to the tea parties.. now gently insert your head back up your azz and take a snooze!

 

[MaggieMae]

Yup. WWII was the exception to that. Most vets of most wars were basically forgotten after they were no longer need.





Yes, America was always seeking empire. But for the first 150 years our empire was on this continent for the most part. And the other thing is that empire was benefical to most Americans, too. Opening up the continent for exploitation benefitted the American citizens

Now our leaders seek world domination, but they do so in way which the American people pay for (with blood and gold) but do not really benefit from very much.

So we are fragmenting now into various poltical camps as the cost of empire makes life more difficult for most of us.

Some of us are foolish enough to blame our neighbors for the decline in quality of life here, rather than blaming our leaders.

But in the defence of these fools who still don't get it, our leaders are damned good and making sure that there's always scapegoats to blame for the disintegrating quality of life, aren't they?

Hmm, Japan and Hawaii on 'this continent'? It's been difficult to figure if US is actually or has been after 'empire' or is just after hegemony; however that it's long been 'involved' and to a real extent controlling of other nations is not something that began AFTER WWII.

Global trade, trade treaties made us even more vulnerable to our government's empire reach I think.....

Then all the big guys and corporations started lobbying congress more than ever before, to benefit themselves with the global trade and global banking.....then they did not need us Americans, anymore, to make them the wealthiest ever....they just needed Congress to pave the way... imo.

Care

And you would be correct, which is why trickle down did not work this time 'round. Investments went overseas, not in American industry.

 

[Avatar4321]

And you would be correct, which is why trickle down did not work this time 'round. Investments went overseas, not in American industry.

If thats the case it sounds to me it worked exactly as it should be. You see jobs were created for poverty stricken people.

The problem you have is you seem to be stuck on this notion that only Americans are allowed to work. Somehow we are entitled to all the jobs.

Of course, you also ignore the fact that we wouldnt be shipping jobs overseas if government stopped artificially raising costs in all major industries.

 

[MaggieMae]

People stopped caring and forgot what liberty means and those who fought and still fight to ensure it

Why did they stop caring?

selfishness instead of selflessness.... greed.....imo, lead to the waxed cold feelings of society today....the me, me, me, me verses the "what can I do for my country",

Plus the removal of the family unit, due to the falling apart of the family farm and the industrial revolution's expansion...spreading to cities and regions, that drew the kids away from the farm, with machines to take their place....this made people more dependent on strangers or the government, than "family" because families were split hundreds to thousands of miles apart.

Wow, I really like that concise and accurate explanation. I usually try to say the same thing but it winds up taking book-length form! The only other thing I would add would be the necessary of women entering the workforce during WWII, which gradually increased over the following decades as also contributing to the demise of the family unit.

 

[MaggieMae]

The 'family unit' was in pretty good shape throughout the first half of the 20th C., nearly all of which was non-agrarian economically. It was the family unit for the most part that saved individuals throughout the depression.

However much I admire Jefferson, blaming the economic engine is unlikely as a source for good or evil.

you are right that it wasn't just one thing...but wrong imo to leave out all possibilities of being spokes in the wheel that rolled downwards....

What are some of your ideas Annie, on why people don't care and how we evolved to that point...?

Care

The destruction of the American Family began in earnest in the 60's with the Liberal agenda. Now a days your children have more rights then the parents, or rather the Government uses the courts to make it so. Illegal Courts I might add. Family Courts are ILLEGAL. They do not assume innocent till proven guilty at all. They deny you the right to a trial by your peers as well. Further they claim they can do this because they are not criminal in nature, yet they take your children, they take your money and can lead to imprisonment.

Sounds like someone has an axe to grind with family court. In my state, we not only have family court but drug court, because both quasi legal situations stifle the full court system which actually deals with criminal activities. And everyone's happy.

 

[MaggieMae]

The people have become corrupt and turned from the God who blessed them with prosperity and freedom.

We as a people have become lazy and dishonest. We think we are entiteld to everything and if our neighbor has something we dont we hate them and bitch and moan about how life is unfair to us rather than buckling down and doing the work we need to do our duty and to accomplish what we want.

We have a media culture always telling people that the "cool" thing to do is to smoke pot, snort coke, shoot heroin, get drunk off our asses, and engage in random sex with everyone because it feels good. Im not saying its the media's fault, quite the opposite. the Media reflex the people. Parents arent raising their kids. Parents are more concerned about doing what feels good for themselves rather than what's in the best interest of their kid. To the point that they are willing to kill their children claiming justification through "choice".

We have a corrupt society and wonder why our politicians are corrupt. We wonder why all these bad things are happening to our nation and why we arent the people our parents and grandparents were. And unfortunately no one has the guts to actually do the hard things in life, to repent, to actively get people to change in their own life first and then in the lives of those around them. We deny the existence of truth and the path of happiness and wonder why we arent happy. We are apathetic to our lives and the lives around us.

And this isnt a partisan issue. This is an issue of severe importance for all people. We need to start by humbling ourselves and repenting. Thats the only way this corruption will cease. And thats going to take alot of work and sacrifice.

Good answer, but I'm not so sure about the "repenting" stuff. One would think that if there really is a God and you believe that repenting is what will fix everything, then you would also have to believe that God is very much aware of the current state of affairs on His Earth. So if He's directing the show and it's gotten so awful, why doesn't he do something about all the evil in His World? Why were 35 innocent Mexican children badly burned in a fire yesterday? Was it because they hadn't "repented"??

 

[MaggieMae]

YouTube - 1951 General McArthur Big Parade in New York

This is such a telling video. Thousands of NY'ers pouring ticker tape all over famed General Douglas McArthur after his return from the Korean War in 1951. Today our military faces liberal, left wing protestors who spit at them and left-wing organizations like the ACLU and Human Rights Watch that think the people who go to war against a country should be tried for crimes against humanity.

Today, we punish the good, like Israel and the US and the military and honest taxpayers who have paid their mortgage on time, and we reward the bad like the Arab countries, people who skip out on their loan, the "Palestinians." If a four-star general returned home from war today, he would barely be recoginzed by anyone. Countries such as Iran and North Korea are threatening their neighbors and the United States is powerless to stop them. Why? Not because our military isn't the best and brightest in the world, but because no one cares anymore.

What's happened to us? As a society why do we reward the bad and punish the good? Do good and evil even exist in people's vocabularies anymore? What's happened to us? What's wrong with our society?

Nobody "spits on" Iraq/Afghanistan returning vets. I'll just start with that comment and read the others. The 60's era of angry hippies is over. Time you got over it too.

uuummm hmmmm sure! ronnie reagan used to say "the trouble with liberals is they know so much that isn't so








[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il77LFoCtfc]YouTube - Iraq War Protestor Spits On Iraq War Vet 001[/ame]

ONE incident? C'mon, genius, surely you can do better than that.