What's Going On

[Psychoblues]

Sorry to disappoint you, jimnyc, but were it not for aggressive illegal, as we understand it, immigration then you or I might not have been born in this country. Did I mention that I was also known as Redhair Longbow?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
Sorry to disappoint you, jimnyc, but were it not for aggressive illegal, as we understand it, immigration then you or I might not have been born in this country. Did I mention that I was also known as Redhair Longbow?

Did I mention I was also known as Uncle Sam? Welcome to the real world, and thanks for your land.

 

[lilcountriegal]

Just reading along... wanted to pop in and say

Did I mention I was also known as Uncle Sam? Welcome to the real world, and thanks for your land.

 

[DKSuddeth]

The blame goes all the way around, Moi. But it IS the Republicans that have been the most adamant in their opposition to stricter border patrols and enforcement of our residence laws.

well, all three of MY republican representatives in texas (senator hutchinson and cornyn) and my congressional rep (pete sessions) all voted FOR stricter immigration laws. The only thing they messed up with was the 'fast track authority' where they gave up their control over immigration.

Did I mention I was also known as Uncle Sam? Welcome to the real world, and thanks for your land.

my cherokee side finds that quite offensive. At least my irish side was laughing.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
my cherokee side finds that quite offensive. At least my irish side was laughing.

Well, I thank your Cherokee half for the land as well, and I'll drink to that with your Irish half.

 

[Psychoblues]

I've been an ambassador , not in any official sense but in a more personal one, for the United States of America in many countries, several wars and for many years. I took that responsibilty voluntarilly and I've done my best with it. I've heard about and seen the premise of the "ugly American" before. To admit your accuracy in ideology is also to succumb to the twisted mindset that "we" are somehow better than all the rest. I do not find that to be true at all.

 

[jimnyc]

One word

Whatever

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
I've been an ambassador , not in any official sense but in a more personal one, for the United States of America in many countries, several wars and for many years. I took that responsibilty voluntarilly and I've done my best with it. I've heard about and seen the premise of the "ugly American" before. To admit your accuracy in ideology is also to succumb to the twisted mindset that "we" are somehow better than all the rest. I do not find that to be true at all.

I don't believe that we are better than the rest but I must ask the question why would anyone come here from elsewhere? Could it be that we have the best governmental system (as a whole, not in every instance) and country and opportunities?

Could it be that being in the United States is desirable because we supply what the world's people covet?

Oh, and let's not forget that whether we are the "ugly americans" or not, I don't see many countries willing to walk away from taking what we give out for their own success. And we are generally the first country that others come to in their time of need.

The system of government that we have is very similar to our position in the world- the powerless looked for a system else to rely upon and blame- now those who are dependent on that same system the created by their reliance despise it/us.

Kinda sucks for them getting what they wanted doesn't it?

 

[Psychoblues]

Go back and read your post, moi. You're making my case for me. Actually, we probably agree and you tend to take the proposition adversarily.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
Go back and read your post, moi. You're making my case for me. Actually, we probably agree and you tend to take the proposition adversarily.

She claims we have the best governmental system, you claim the INS and border failures is the fault of the republicans. How exactly does she make your case. Delusions of grandeur, that's how.

 

[dijetlo]

Originally posted by Moi
I don't believe that we are better than the rest but I must ask the question why would anyone come here from elsewhere? Could it be that we have the best governmental system (as a whole, not in every instance) and country and opportunities?
Could it be that being in the United States is desirable because we supply what the world's people covet?

Dollars. US dollars are why they come to america. They come to play in the big game, not because the are "yearning to breath free" almost without exception in my experience.
Refusing to give them education and healthcare wont stop them, even strict immigration laws are not going to totaly halt the flow. The dropping dollar will eventually divert the Asians to Europe but the hispanics from south/central america have little opportunity to reach Europe, so they will head for the money in the USA.
BTW, Psycho, wasn't it Crazy Horse who said the "greatest vanity of the white man is that he beleives he can own the land."

 

[jimnyc]

So are you saying the people that seek asylum here from Cuba and Haiti are doing so because they see dollar signs?

Sure, there are many that come here for opportunity, opportunities they can't get elsewhere. But to claim that a large portion don't come here for freedom is wrong.

 

[dijetlo]

Originally posted by jimnyc
So are you saying the people that seek asylum here from Cuba and Haiti are doing so because they see dollar signs?

If a Hatian wants "freedom" he can walk across the mountains into the Dominican Republic and live in a "free" country, he doesn't have to paddle to Florida on a flotation cushion. To stay in the US they have to claim political asylum, which is where the misconception comes from. The answer to your question Jim is yes, they come here for the money.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by dijetlo
If a Hatian wants "freedom" he can walk across the mountains into the Dominican Republic and live in a "free" country, he doesn't have to paddle to Florida on a flotation cushion. To stay in the US they have to claim political asylum, which is where the misconception comes from. The answer to your question Jim is yes, they come here for the money.

How do you explain the thousands of illegals here that barely get by with enough money to feed themselves, and are ecstatic to be in such a position?

A Haitian would prefer to live in the DR as opposed to the USA? LOL Don't think so. The 2 freedoms aren't even comparable.

They come here for opportunity. Some is the opportunity for cash, for others it is an opportunity to live in a free world. To think otherwise is an insult to the hundreds of thousands who immigrated here over the years for better lives for themselves and their families.

 

[dijetlo]

Originally posted by jimnyc
How do you explain the thousands of illegals here that barely get by with enough money to feed themselves, and are ecstatic to be in such a position?

It is better to live in the US Jim. They also hope to better their position in life, I'm sure.

A Haitian would prefer to live in the DR as opposed to the USA? LOL Don't think so. The 2 freedoms aren't even comparable.

The CIA factbook

regular competitive elections have been held in which opposition candidates have won the presidency. The Dominican economy has had one of the fastest growth rates in the hemisphere over the past decade.

The Dominican Republic is a real democracy with political parties, peaceful demonstrations, free speech, etc. It is also a walk through the jungle from Haiti. When a hatian says he wants freedom, what he really wants is asylum.

They come here for opportunity. Some is the opportunity for cash, for others it is an opportunity to live in a free world. To think otherwise is an insult to the hundreds of thousands who immigrated here over the years for better lives for themselves and their families.

The opportunity is what drives them. The only oppurtunity unique to the US is the chance to get payed in dollars. Other countries vote, other countries allow free speech, the difference is other countries pay in Pesos.

 

[jimnyc]

It is better to live in the US Jim. They also hope to better their position in life, I'm sure.

Of course it's better to live in the US, and not just because of money.

The CIA factbook

And what is this supposed to show me? Of course a lot will go to the DR as well, but more for the convenience factor. Hell, even the people from the Dominican Republic citizens want to come here! Try driving about 10 miles south of me, half of Harlem and the Bronx is from the DR!! (not to mention half the Yankees)

The Dominican Republic is a real democracy with political parties, peaceful demonstrations, free speech, etc. It is also a walk through the jungle from Haiti. When a hatian says he wants freedom, what he really wants is asylum.

Nothing against the DR, and I don't believe I spoke against them, but the quality of life there isn't nearly as good as in the US. Again, those that go to the DR from Haiti mostly do so because of how much easier it is.

The opportunity is what drives them. The only oppurtunity unique to the US is the chance to get payed in dollars. Other countries vote, other countries allow free speech, the difference is other countries pay in Pesos.

You said so in your first sentence, IT IS BETTER TO LIVE IN THE US. Even sitting on their asses on welfare they are better of in the US than in the DR or Haiti. Plainly put, the quality of living is much better in the US than either of those 2 places. I have friends from the DR that go back to see family whenever they can. They love where they came from but they left because they wanted better living conditions for their children. My wifes Grandparents came here from Italy, also for a better environment for their families. Neither of those I just mentioned live in riches, or beyond any means they could have attained where they were born. They just wanted better lives for themselves and their loved ones.

 

[Psychoblues]

<BTW, Psycho, wasn't it Crazy Horse who said the "greatest vanity of the white man is that he beleives he can own the land.">

I think that's correct, dijetlo, but whether it is or not isn't important. The very concept of private ownership of land was so foreign and outlandish to the native Americans that it proved their relatively quick and bloody conquering. As are a good number of things, this is just one more that we shouldn't be so devilishly proud of. But I guess that's another debatable subject.