What would we (USA) gain with an Obama presidency?

Ahh... yes.. .the unfounded opinions of Paul V. Dutton... the man who makes up stats to support his opinion, and does not give a complete picture if it contradicts his pre-formed opinion

And we all know the quality and the lack of expense our government has for running existing health care systems like the ones for the military and retired military.... :rolleyes:

There are inherent cost savings in a single payer system.
 
How many MRI and CAT Scan machines per 100000 people in France?? Maybe you should actually start looking at more things than just cost...


You can find a cheaper cost... not always at equal quality... and no... there is no questioning that the quality of our care is much higher

And lest we not forget... you little libtards and your support of runaway lawsuits against the medical field... raising the costs even more

why dont you start giving some proof for these claims. please
 
Google "malpractice insurance" and maybe you can figure out for yourself one of the reasons health care costs so much in America.

and absolutely nothing can be done about that, right?

and remember, necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit
 
Cowering to popularity of other nations is not 'restoring our good name'... again...

So I guess then Iran & N. Korea should stick to their guns and continue developing weapons grade nukes?

I mean, you wouldn't approve of them cowering to other nations just to restore their good name, now would you?

So America should isolate itself too and continue with our very unpopular agenda of nation building, even though the international community, and 60% of Americans, do not approve?

Woudn't it be better if the rest of the world bought in to our plans?
 
If I didn't know how they distorted Obama's voting record, included votes he didn't show up for, etc, I would maybe believe you, but I know this is just a right wing talking point.

Yes, a far left candidate can not win, so it is a negative thing to say. Take guns away? Approve Gay marriage? What makes him far left? Kerry wasn't far left either. Neither was Gore. I also know Rush and Rove moved the spectrum to the right, so I don't know what you consider far left anymore, and I assume neither do you.

I'm not saying McCain being a flip flopper is good or bad, it's just a fact.

And I think saying the GOP isn't at fault for all our problems is just plain silly. They caused/created every problem we have today. And, they are blocking the democrats from fixing those problems so they can run against a do nothing Congress. I'm not saying that is good or bad, it's just a fact.

Please explain why Obama's hands will be tied. The Dems will control all three branches of government. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just a fact. So why will his hands be tied? And yes, he will fix the Patriot Act and FISA so no, he doesn't have to change the constitution. He has to follow it, unlike Bush who pissed on the Constitution. So will McCain, because he endorses torture. He didn't in the past. Why did he flip flop? I'm not saying that's good or bad, just a fact.

For saying a far left candidate cannot win, you don't have much faith in Obama and his campaign. They are very capable of winning and I believe his chances are very good.

Again, blaming everything on the GOP is not understanding our political system or really keeping up with current events. It is very egotistical to think Democrats do nothing wrong and everyone else is to blame. That's not fact, that is fiction.

Obama will have his hands tied. Again, if you understand our Constitution and our country's political system, you would understand this. Are you definitely from the U.S. because I'm questioning if you are familiar with U.S. law and its Constitution.
 
For saying a far left candidate cannot win, you don't have much faith in Obama and his campaign. They are very capable of winning and I believe his chances are very good.

Again, blaming everything on the GOP is not understanding our political system or really keeping up with current events. It is very egotistical to think Democrats do nothing wrong and everyone else is to blame. That's not fact, that is fiction.

Obama will have his hands tied. Again, if you understand our Constitution and our country's political system, you would understand this. Are you definitely from the U.S. because I'm questioning if you are familiar with U.S. law and its Constitution.

1. no, obama is a centrist. so you aren't paying attention to the facts. just the mainstream/conservative media. just the fact you label them makes you wrong. are you right or center on every issue? obama is common sense on every issue.

2. You don't understand what the gop did to the constitution or the political system. Very few politicians know the constitution. Obama is a constitutional scholar. I doubt you are.

Because I am a hawk on what the gop did from 2000 to 2006 and what they are doing now so they can run against a do nothing congress, I feel you are not being inellectually honest. you talk a good game though, but either you are clueless or FOS. And I sense your condesending tone in your posts. imo.
 
I think you are in healthcare management so you are only looking out for yourself. Just like my friend in pharmecutical sales. His boss said to him in 2003, "if you want your job for the next 20 years, vote for Bush".

Yes, the GOP will protect your industry because they have a lot of lobbyists in Washington.

What health care does Senator McCain, Hillary and McCain get? That's exactly what we all want. Why can't we have that?

If we all pay into one system, it will be affordable and we will save money on the paperwork that is contributing to the high costs of healthcare....

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. But bottom line, you want the status quo, even though it is killing our companies and literally our citizens who aren't insured. Pre existing conditions, etc.

It's too expensive.... Blabal. What should we wait for then? If it's broken, no better time than yesterday to get started.

And we aren't going to become totally socialized medicine. I'm sure the rich can buy better health care than the rest of us. After all, it is a free market.

Wow, you jump to conclusions quickly. You think because I'm in Healthcare, I'm only looking out for myself? That's not typically why people go into healthcare. It may be shocking to you but I'm in healthcare because I enjoy helping others. I'm in healthcare because I am interested in improving our current system. Have you always had a grudge against folks who work in healthcare?

Federal employees including McCain, Clinton, and Obama receive health care coverage just like any other employer with healthcare benefits. They pay a set premium like most other employees with healthcare benefits based on the particular plan they choose from. I believe the premium is not too bad compared to other employers but that is only because the government is paying a larger share of the total cost. There is nothing special about the healthcare benefits the U.S. Senators receive versus everyone else.

There would be significant costs in transitioning the current system to a universal healthcare system. It's not a wash! It's not an On or Off switch. You just can't say let's do it and its done. Like I said before, it would cost billions of dollars. If we were to overhaul the healthcare system, it should be done slowly over time. Otherwise, you risk hurting a lot of people and screwing up people's records.
 
Obama will have his hands tied. Again, if you understand our Constitution and our country's political system, you would understand this. Are you definitely from the U.S. because I'm questioning if you are familiar with U.S. law and its Constitution.

Please explain how his hands will be tied when the dems are going to pick up more seats in both houses. Or are you unaware the gop is in deep trouble this november.

Don't jst say things like this without explaining. Remember, I don't understand politics or the constitution so please educate me.

Are you trying to suggest you "get it" more than stephen colbert? you should have a show where you pretend to be a democrat while you subtly make fun of them.
 
1. no, obama is a centrist. so you aren't paying attention to the facts. just the mainstream/conservative media. just the fact you label them makes you wrong. are you right or center on every issue? obama is common sense on every issue.

2. You don't understand what the gop did to the constitution or the political system. Very few politicians know the constitution. Obama is a constitutional scholar. I doubt you are.

Because I am a hawk on what the gop did from 2000 to 2006 and what they are doing now so they can run against a do nothing congress, I feel you are not being inellectually honest. you talk a good game though, but either you are clueless or FOS. And I sense your condesending tone in your posts. imo.

Obama may be a centrist in your world (which is obviously slanted to the left based a number of suggestions you've made) but he's not to others. Again, Obama may be common sense to you but that doesn't make it right. Just because you say it is. And Obama is a Constitutional Scholar because you say he is. That sounds pretty intimate.

I am fully aware of what the GOP did from 2000 to 2006. It sounds as if you had a personal experience with a number of them sensing the hatred you have towards them.

I have no love lost for the GOP but I don't ignore what people do on both sides of the aisle. I criticize whichever side is doing something wrong. You are extremely biased in your criticisms so how can I take whatever you say as fair. If someone just spews hatred and says they are always right, how can you be taken seriously?
 
Wow, you jump to conclusions quickly. You think because I'm in Healthcare, I'm only looking out for myself? That's not typically why people go into healthcare. It may be shocking to you but I'm in healthcare because I enjoy helping others. I'm in healthcare because I am interested in improving our current system. Have you always had a grudge against folks who work in healthcare?

Federal employees including McCain, Clinton, and Obama receive health care coverage just like any other employer with healthcare benefits. They pay a set premium like most other employees with healthcare benefits based on the particular plan they choose from. I believe the premium is not too bad compared to other employers but that is only because the government is paying a larger share of the total cost. There is nothing special about the healthcare benefits the U.S. Senators receive versus everyone else.

There would be significant costs in transitioning the current system to a universal healthcare system. It's not a wash! It's not an On or Off switch. You just can't say let's do it and its done. Like I said before, it would cost billions of dollars. If we were to overhaul the healthcare system, it should be done slowly over time. Otherwise, you risk hurting a lot of people and screwing up people's records.

Yes, I assume you believe your pay would be affected if healthcare were socialized.

And I understand politicians have better inurance than the rest of us. I'll post proof tomorrow how theirs is different and better.

Obama didn't say he would switch overnight. He and hillary said they would make small changes and improvements overtime.

I'm sure if you care, you want to fix the problems. out of control costs, pre existing conditions, preveentative care insteead of..., not letting the uninsured die because they aren't insured. if I have cancer and i'm not insured, I should still get the best treatment.

if not, don't you dare cry about abortion or say all life is precious. it takes money to cure cancer? well it takes money to raise a retarded child. so if I want a partial birth abortion, conservative hypocrites should not have the balls to say anything about it.

sorry, I went on a tangent, but its better to give too much information than not enough. so if you reply, please give details, examples, analogies that explain your black and white statements. I feel i'm giving more in this relationship. lol
 
Obama may be a centrist in your world (which is obviously slanted to the left based a number of suggestions you've made) but he's not to others. Again, Obama may be common sense to you but that doesn't make it right. Just because you say it is. And Obama is a Constitutional Scholar because you say he is. That sounds pretty intimate.

I am fully aware of what the GOP did from 2000 to 2006. It sounds as if you had a personal experience with a number of them sensing the hatred you have towards them.

I have no love lost for the GOP but I don't ignore what people do on both sides of the aisle. I criticize whichever side is doing something wrong. You are extremely biased in your criticisms so how can I take whatever you say as fair. If someone just spews hatred and says they are always right, how can you be taken seriously?

Clinton was a centrist but people just like you said he was a lefty. Maybe you are too far right to realize i'm not a lefty.

how did the dems help delay ruin america between 00 and 06? They were shut out of the process. Please tell.

You don't understand bud. Obama really is a constitutional scholar from harvard. Maybe you need to look closer and the mans credentials.

We all have a personal experience. I own a home, have a 401k and i pay for gas,

Please tell me how the dems in 00 to 06 helped to weaken the dollar, lower my homes value and double the price of gas.
one more reply with no substance and i'm done with you.
 
Please explain how his hands will be tied when the dems are going to pick up more seats in both houses. Or are you unaware the gop is in deep trouble this november.

Don't jst say things like this without explaining. Remember, I don't understand politics or the constitution so please educate me.

Are you trying to suggest you "get it" more than stephen colbert? you should have a show where you pretend to be a democrat while you subtly make fun of them.

Okay, you should know this because the Democrats were at one time not so long ago a minority in Congress. And everytime the Republicans attempted to pass something the Dems were completely opposed to but could not muster a majority, they would submit a fillibuster. This typically works unless the majority can gain a super majority to to bring the debate to closure. That's one method. There are other procedurial tactics that can be employed to block bills.

Then there are global events which will affect the President's actions. Terrorism isn't going to go away the day Obama takes office. You can mock the national security provisions put into action by Bush but he doesn't make it up as he goes. He has a whole host of folks that influence what steps he takes just as Obama will have as well. The Patriot Act, military tribunals, and the FISA cases will not go away.

Don't forget the lobbyists, they will influence his every move. And don't pretend he doesn't have any his back pocket because they all do.

And then there's the Dems who helped him to get into office who will be coming to him for their retributions. They will each have their own special interest and they will want theirs first.

And then all of the law suits that will result with the new bills (that have been suggested will go into law after Obama becomes President). First, if an attempt to overhaul the healthcare system is attempted, there will be law suits from multiple angles from the AMA to the AHIP. A law suit from the oil industry has to be just around the corner. I'm guessing they are waiting to see who the next President is.

This could go on and on and its not real exciting.
 
Yes, I assume you believe your pay would be affected if healthcare were socialized.

And I understand politicians have better inurance than the rest of us. I'll post proof tomorrow how theirs is different and better.

Obama didn't say he would switch overnight. He and hillary said they would make small changes and improvements overtime.

I'm sure if you care, you want to fix the problems. out of control costs, pre existing conditions, preveentative care insteead of..., not letting the uninsured die because they aren't insured. if I have cancer and i'm not insured, I should still get the best treatment.

if not, don't you dare cry about abortion or say all life is precious. it takes money to cure cancer? well it takes money to raise a retarded child. so if I want a partial birth abortion, conservative hypocrites should not have the balls to say anything about it.

sorry, I went on a tangent, but its better to give too much information than not enough. so if you reply, please give details, examples, analogies that explain your black and white statements. I feel i'm giving more in this relationship. lol

I'm not that concerned about my pay relating to whether we have universal healthcare or the current system. I'm not in it for the money. Do you understand doing something that helps others?

your just venting and its not making a lot of sense. You don't want anyone to say something about life being precious? You want to cure cancer or you don't? Are you saying we shouldn't raise handicapped children, your not making sense?
 
Clinton was a centrist but people just like you said he was a lefty. Maybe you are too far right to realize i'm not a lefty.

how did the dems help delay ruin america between 00 and 06? They were shut out of the process. Please tell.

You don't understand bud. Obama really is a constitutional scholar from harvard. Maybe you need to look closer and the mans credentials.

We all have a personal experience. I own a home, have a 401k and i pay for gas,

Please tell me how the dems in 00 to 06 helped to weaken the dollar, lower my homes value and double the price of gas.
one more reply with no substance and i'm done with you.

People like me? You don't even know who I am or what I stand for, how can you judge? I actually considered Clinton a centrist. Other than his fling in the Oval Office, he had a fairly successful presidency.

I know Obama went to Harvard. That doesn't make him a scholar. I could give a number of examples of folks who went to Ivy league schools and are not scholars. Stop treating Obama like he's your personal Jesus. He's only a man.

I'm not making you reply. Feel free to back out of the conversation at any time.
 
For saying a far left candidate cannot win, you don't have much faith in Obama and his campaign. They are very capable of winning and I believe his chances are very good.

Again, blaming everything on the GOP is not understanding our political system or really keeping up with current events. It is very egotistical to think Democrats do nothing wrong and everyone else is to blame. That's not fact, that is fiction.

Obama will have his hands tied. Again, if you understand our Constitution and our country's political system, you would understand this. Are you definitely from the U.S. because I'm questioning if you are familiar with U.S. law and its Constitution.

WHY NOTHING THE PRESS THROWS AT OBAMA STICKS.

The Washington Post's Howard Kurtz demolished charges that the press was soft on Obama by cataloging the tough pieces published by reporters exhuming the candidate's past.
What's unique about Obama and his candidacy is that almost none of the stuff the press throws at him sticks.
Smears undermine a politician only when they appeal to voters' pre-existing idea of what sort of person a politician is. Seeing as the pre-existing idea of Obama is so positive, the Obama-haters have had trouble portraying him in a negative way. When the smear artists dress him up as a radical or as "madrassa"-educated, the ploys only backfire.

Why nothing the press throws at Barack Obama sticks. - By Jack Shafer - Slate Magazine
 
For saying a far left candidate cannot win, you don't have much faith in Obama and his campaign. They are very capable of winning and I believe his chances are very good.

Again, blaming everything on the GOP is not understanding our political system or really keeping up with current events. It is very egotistical to think Democrats do nothing wrong and everyone else is to blame. That's not fact, that is fiction.

Obama will have his hands tied. Again, if you understand our Constitution and our country's political system, you would understand this. Are you definitely from the U.S. because I'm questioning if you are familiar with U.S. law and its Constitution.

Edwards threatened to take Congress' healthcare away

What Edwards’ stunt does is dramatize how much Congressmen like the health care they currently receive. How far they’ll go to defend it. And how hollow the inevitable protestations of dangerous, socialized medicine really are. If Congress wants to block this bill, the follow-up point, which can be made in a speech to the nation, is “if your health care is so good, why shouldn’t every American be allowed to have it?” What Edwards wants to do isn’t take away the health care of Congress, but expand it to the country.

Crooks and Liars John Edwards Threatens Congress’s Health Care To Give Everyone Universal Health Care
 
Federal employees including McCain, Clinton, and Obama receive health care coverage just like any other employer with healthcare benefits. They pay a set premium like most other employees with healthcare benefits based on the particular plan they choose from. I believe the premium is not too bad compared to other employers but that is only because the government is paying a larger share of the total cost. There is nothing special about the healthcare benefits the U.S. Senators receive versus everyone else.
QUOTE]

it's not just the generous health plan that they get, courtesy of us taxpayers, but other benefits too—such as guaranteed pay raises and pensions.

Take health care. Like all federal workers, members of Congress (and their dependents) are eligible for the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program—the deal Steve Kagen turned down. For less than $1,000 a year, they and their Senate colleagues can also drop by the office of the Capitol's physician, where a $2 million-per-year staff of nearly 20 doctors, nurses and technicians is at their service. For major operations, they've got access to top-notch government facilities like Bethesda Naval Medical Center, where Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell had his heart bypass surgery a few years ago.

Surprise, surprise: The health coverage available to Congress is better than Medicare. And according to a 2003 study by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, the prescription drug benefit of the most popular federal-employee health plan was worth 42 percent more than the standard Medicare drug plan Congress passed that year. To cap it off, unlike most Americans, members of Congress and their dependents often get to keep their health plans after they retire!

Congressmen Getting Benefits the Average American Does Not : An Appalling Disconnect | Your America | Reader's Digest
 
WHY NOTHING THE PRESS THROWS AT OBAMA STICKS.

The Washington Post's Howard Kurtz demolished charges that the press was soft on Obama by cataloging the tough pieces published by reporters exhuming the candidate's past.
What's unique about Obama and his candidacy is that almost none of the stuff the press throws at him sticks.
Smears undermine a politician only when they appeal to voters' pre-existing idea of what sort of person a politician is. Seeing as the pre-existing idea of Obama is so positive, the Obama-haters have had trouble portraying him in a negative way. When the smear artists dress him up as a radical or as "madrassa"-educated, the ploys only backfire.

Why nothing the press throws at Barack Obama sticks. - By Jack Shafer - Slate Magazine

Not sure what your point is here and why your quoting me. I haven't said anything to smear Obama. The only smearing going on around here is from you.
 
Federal employees including McCain, Clinton, and Obama receive health care coverage just like any other employer with healthcare benefits. They pay a set premium like most other employees with healthcare benefits based on the particular plan they choose from. I believe the premium is not too bad compared to other employers but that is only because the government is paying a larger share of the total cost. There is nothing special about the healthcare benefits the U.S. Senators receive versus everyone else.
QUOTE]

it's not just the generous health plan that they get, courtesy of us taxpayers, but other benefits too—such as guaranteed pay raises and pensions.

Take health care. Like all federal workers, members of Congress (and their dependents) are eligible for the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program—the deal Steve Kagen turned down. For less than $1,000 a year, they and their Senate colleagues can also drop by the office of the Capitol's physician, where a $2 million-per-year staff of nearly 20 doctors, nurses and technicians is at their service. For major operations, they've got access to top-notch government facilities like Bethesda Naval Medical Center, where Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell had his heart bypass surgery a few years ago.

Surprise, surprise: The health coverage available to Congress is better than Medicare. And according to a 2003 study by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, the prescription drug benefit of the most popular federal-employee health plan was worth 42 percent more than the standard Medicare drug plan Congress passed that year. To cap it off, unlike most Americans, members of Congress and their dependents often get to keep their health plans after they retire!

Congressmen Getting Benefits the Average American Does Not : An Appalling Disconnect | Your America | Reader's Digest

If you want federal healthcare, then look for a position within the federal government and submit a resume. You think its so wonderful to work for the federal government, sign up. I believe the reason their healthcare benefits are supplemented more than some other employers (some employers pay out more than the federal government) is because the pay is generally less in the federal sector. Of course you will say that Congress is payed so well they shouldn't be supplemented, well then you have a problem with their pay rates.

Cherry picking articles to suit your argument is not very tough and doesn't give your position any more merit. You should be looking at the big picture and reviewing both sides of the aisle before making a judgement. By you always taking only one side, it makes you look like a robot.
 

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