What would we (USA) gain with an Obama presidency?

[DiamondDave]

Do you think you should pay the fire department if your house is burning? I don't have kids. I should not pay for your retarded kids to ride the short bus then either. But these things are funded by tax payers because it is for the good of society as a whole. Same with healthcare.

And do you think emergency rooms should turn away the uninsured? That is costing us tax payers the most. Side note. Do you know why the GOP didn't fix that problem the 6 years they were in control? Because they employ illegal immigrants and/or they have small business' that don't offer insurance. Just another way the rich are taking advantage of the system. They don't mind us tax payers footing the bill for those emergency room visits because it takes that burden off their plates. So I can see a whole bunch of reasons why they, and you, don't want socialized medicine, but I see very few good reasons why not. Key word being GOOD reasons. Tax payers would pay less if we socialize medicine. Fact.

No, we do want the United States to be looked at favorably. We used to stand on the moral high ground. We used to be admired. We want that back.

Bush not only negotiated with N. Korea, he gave them billions of dollars to stop testing nukes. Your tough guy approach doesn't work when we are spread thin. These "rogue" nations could break us financially, especially when we don't have the backing of the rest of the world. That's why you want the world to look at us favorably.

Do I think we should all pay the same amount for a service... yep.... do I think we should have law enforcement and public safety protection? Yep.... BUT... your health, you habits, are all YOUR responsibility... and comparing it to public schooling of minors? PUH-LEASE.... but funny, if you want to send your fellow retard to a private school for a better education, you have the choice to do that because of your responsibility toward that child if you want above and beyond or better education

Paying less for low quality socialized medicine? FALSE... it is only your theory and biased stance that makes you believe this to be true...

Do I think emergency rooms should turn away the uninsured? Nope... I think all medical emergencies should be taken care of... and you pay for your services received.. whether that be thru cash, or billed, or thru insurance that you purchase to cover your personal responsibility for your own health... and funny, hospital and charitable donations by the evil rich that you hate so much, pays for a lot of that free care that is already given out

Did I agree with Bush giving money or bribes or anything at all to N.K.? Nope... do I agree with a hard line stance against nations like that, even if you call it "negotiating", yep.... I condone no negotiation with rogue despot states and tyrannical regimes

 

[sealybobo]

I believe there are a lot of folks for McCain, they are just not overly excited over him. He's not your traditional red blooded conservative. Which is what makes him attractive for folks in the middle or independents.

The political spectrum has shifted. You have a candidate in Obama who swings quite a bit to the Left and a candidate in McCain whose just right of center. The far right wing folks are feeling disenchanted because they don't have someone to represent them, which is understandable. Whether people like it or not, there is a large segment of religious/evangelical conservatives and when they don't have representation, that creates a lot of heat.

If Obama is elected, IMO, the division in this country is going to grow and become more heated.

Obama is not far left. They said the same thing about Hillary. They'll say the same thing about any Democrat.

And no, the GOP divided this country. Get them out of government and let the Democrats fix what they broke. If they don't do a good job, you can vote out the bums in 2010 and then vote out Obama in 2012.

 

[busara]

some information for dave

Health Care Lessons From France : NPR

In 2000, health care experts for the World Health Organization tried to do a statistical ranking of the world's health care systems. They studied 191 countries and ranked them on things like the number of years people lived in good health and whether everyone had access to good health care. France came in first. The United States ranked 37th.

Some researchers, however, said that study was flawed, arguing that there might be things other than a country's health care system that determined factors like longevity. So this year, two researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine measured something called the "amenable mortality." Basically, it's a measure of deaths that could have been prevented with good health care. The researchers looked at health care in 19 industrialized nations. Again, France came in first. The United States was last.


"Americans assume that if it's in Europe, which France is, that it's socialized medicine," he says. "The French don't consider their system socialized. In fact, they detest socialized medicine. For the French, that's the British, that's the Canadians. It's not the French system."

France, like the United States, relies on both private insurance and government insurance. Also, just like in America, people generally get their insurance through their employer.

In France, everyone has health care. However, unlike in Britain and Canada, there are no waiting lists to get elective surgery or see a specialist, Dutton says.


But it is not as expensive as the U.S. system, which is the world's most costly. The United States spends about twice as much as France on health care. In 2005, U.S. spending came to $6,400 per person. In France, it was $3,300.

 

[DiamondDave]

Obama is not far left.

Oh my fucking God... you honestly did not just say that, did you??

As if we did not know you were an extreme liberal and blinded to reality... we certainly do now

 

[MasTequila]

With such a high cost election in progress and a very passionate wave of supporters on both sides of the aisle, the expectations for one candidate or the other appear to be extremely high. So what should we expect with an Obama presidency? (I will ask the same question for McCain in a separate posting)

Higher taxes and a continued decline of the moral values of Americans. Legalized crack and Limo love.

 

[42Presidents]

Obama is not far left. They said the same thing about Hillary. They'll say the same thing about any Democrat.

And no, the GOP divided this country. Get them out of government and let the Democrats fix what they broke. If they don't do a good job, you can vote out the bums in 2010 and then vote out Obama in 2012.

If you were to evaluate Obama's voting record, personal opinions, and action plans on all key issues that are important to Americans and compared those to rest of America, far left would not appear to be far fetched. As was the case when Kerry ran for President, Obama is considered to be the most Liberal presidential candidate of our time. I'm not saying that is good or bad, its just fact.

Why is it so bad to say that? It's not meant to be negative.

And I think just saying the GOP caused all of the problems in this country is just plain silly. If you haven't noticed, the GOP is not in control of Congress. Haven't been for the past year and a half. You put too much faith in the power of the President. It's why I presented my question in the first place, what does folks expect Obama to do if he becomes President?

You might be expecting too much out of Obama. His hands will be fairly tied and it will not be due to the GOP because their power will be fairly diminished by then. Unless Obama intends to change the Constitution and our government's 3 tier system, he will only be able to do so much.

 

[DiamondDave]

some information for dave

Health Care Lessons From France : NPR

Ahh... yes.. .the unfounded opinions of Paul V. Dutton... the man who makes up stats to support his opinion, and does not give a complete picture if it contradicts his pre-formed opinion

And we all know the quality and the lack of expense our government has for running existing health care systems like the ones for the military and retired military....

 

[AllieBaba]

Obama is not far left. They said the same thing about Hillary. They'll say the same thing about any Democrat.

And no, the GOP divided this country. Get them out of government and let the Democrats fix what they broke. If they don't do a good job, you can vote out the bums in 2010 and then vote out Obama in 2012.

Hillary is far left. Obama is straight up socialist.
Also, Hillary has WAY moderated her stance on almost everything.

 

[busara]

Ahh... yes.. .the unfounded opinions of Paul V. Dutton... the man who makes up stats to support his opinion, and does not give a complete picture if it contradicts his pre-formed opinion

And we all know the quality and the lack of expense our government has for running existing health care systems like the ones for the military and retired military....

unlike you who disregards information because you dont like one of the sources in it [rolls eyes]

A Conservative Convert To Socialized Medicine
The French Health Care System
The Informed Reader - WSJ.com : Is French Health Care Really Better?

In a companion article, BusinessWeek examines whether the U.S. excels in one area: patient waiting times. A 2005 survey of six nations by the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit that studies access to health care, found that 47% of U.S. patients could get a same- or next-day appointment, worse than every other country except Canada. Meanwhile, slightly more than half of sick Americans surveyed didn’t visit a doctor, get a needed test or fill a prescription in the past two years because of cost.

france doesnt have a perfect system, but it seems a lot better than what we have now

 

[sealybobo]

If you were to evaluate Obama's voting record, personal opinions, and action plans on all key issues that are important to Americans and compared those to rest of America, far left would not appear to be far fetched. As was the case when Kerry ran for President, Obama is considered to be the most Liberal presidential candidate of our time. I'm not saying that is good or bad, its just fact.

Why is it so bad to say that? It's not meant to be negative.

And I think just saying the GOP caused all of the problems in this country is just plain silly. If you haven't noticed, the GOP is not in control of Congress. Haven't been for the past year and a half. You put too much faith in the power of the President. It's why I presented my question in the first place, what does folks expect Obama to do if he becomes President?

You might be expecting too much out of Obama. His hands will be fairly tied and it will not be due to the GOP because their power will be fairly diminished by then. Unless Obama intends to change the Constitution and our government's 3 tier system, he will only be able to do so much.

If I didn't know how they distorted Obama's voting record, included votes he didn't show up for, etc, I would maybe believe you, but I know this is just a right wing talking point.

Yes, a far left candidate can not win, so it is a negative thing to say. Take guns away? Approve Gay marriage? What makes him far left? Kerry wasn't far left either. Neither was Gore. I also know Rush and Rove moved the spectrum to the right, so I don't know what you consider far left anymore, and I assume neither do you.

I'm not saying McCain being a flip flopper is good or bad, it's just a fact.

And I think saying the GOP isn't at fault for all our problems is just plain silly. They caused/created every problem we have today. And, they are blocking the democrats from fixing those problems so they can run against a do nothing Congress. I'm not saying that is good or bad, it's just a fact.

Please explain why Obama's hands will be tied. The Dems will control all three branches of government. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just a fact. So why will his hands be tied? And yes, he will fix the Patriot Act and FISA so no, he doesn't have to change the constitution. He has to follow it, unlike Bush who pissed on the Constitution. So will McCain, because he endorses torture. He didn't in the past. Why did he flip flop? I'm not saying that's good or bad, just a fact.

 

[AllieBaba]

unlike you who disregards information because you dont like one of the sources in it [rolls eyes]

A Conservative Convert To Socialized Medicine
The French Health Care System
The Informed Reader - WSJ.com : Is French Health Care Really Better?



france doesnt have a perfect system, but it seems a lot better than what we have now

I think you're high.

 

[AllieBaba]

If I didn't know how they distorted Obama's voting record, included votes he didn't show up for, etc, I would maybe believe you, but I know this is just a right wing talking point.

Yes, a far left candidate can not win, so it is a negative thing to say. Take guns away? Approve Gay marriage? What makes him far left? Kerry wasn't far left either. Neither was Gore. I also know Rush and Rove moved the spectrum to the right, so I don't know what you consider far left anymore, and I assume neither do you.

I'm not saying McCain being a flip flopper is good or bad, it's just a fact.

And I think saying the GOP isn't at fault for all our problems is just plain silly. They caused/created every problem we have today. And, they are blocking the democrats from fixing those problems so they can run against a do nothing Congress. I'm not saying that is good or bad, it's just a fact.

Please explain why Obama's hands will be tied. The Dems will control all three branches of government. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just a fact. So why will his hands be tied? And yes, he will fix the Patriot Act and FISA so no, he doesn't have to change the constitution. He has to follow it, unlike Bush who pissed on the Constitution. So will McCain, because he endorses torture. He didn't in the past. Why did he flip flop? I'm not saying that's good or bad, just a fact.

And you're just in lala land.

 

[sealybobo]

Kirk,

You bring up a number of good points in regards to Canadian healthcare. What you've described appears to have some strengths and weaknesses, just like the current healthcare system in the U.S. Yes, the current U.S. system is in need of some repair and I personally am working in the industry so I'm doing what I can to improve it. However, I don't believe the answer is simply to switch over to Universal Healthcare. That sort of overhaul is a process that I don't believe this country is capable of, let alone able to afford it.

Maybe it would be a consideration if the country was in a more stable state financially, but its not. The country's financial situation is so tepid right now that it truly cannot afford to make the switch. It's too quick and too much right now. The country has to focus on straightening itself financially. If it doesn't do that, the future looks grim for the U.S.

I think you are in healthcare management so you are only looking out for yourself. Just like my friend in pharmecutical sales. His boss said to him in 2003, "if you want your job for the next 20 years, vote for Bush".

Yes, the GOP will protect your industry because they have a lot of lobbyists in Washington.

What health care does Senator McCain, Hillary and McCain get? That's exactly what we all want. Why can't we have that?

If we all pay into one system, it will be affordable and we will save money on the paperwork that is contributing to the high costs of healthcare....

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. But bottom line, you want the status quo, even though it is killing our companies and literally our citizens who aren't insured. Pre existing conditions, etc.

It's too expensive.... Blabal. What should we wait for then? If it's broken, no better time than yesterday to get started.

And we aren't going to become totally socialized medicine. I'm sure the rich can buy better health care than the rest of us. After all, it is a free market.

 

[busara]

I think you're high.

and you are incredibly ignorant. how are you able to ignore all the evidence that our healthcare system is far from the best?

 

[KMAN]

Boo.. you dumb friggin idiots... How about currency stabilization and maybe wipping out that record deficit that the whitehouse just announced today...

Blah blah raise you taxes blah... You can cut taxes till the cows come home but if you cant control inflation your getting bitchslapped by a backdoor tax...

idiots...

How bout we just cut spending? Smaller government, smaller deficit... sounds pretty simple to me...

Not sure how Obama's plan for Universal Healthcare is going to cut the deficit....

 

[busara]

How bout we just cut spending? Smaller government, smaller deficit... sounds pretty simple to me...

Not sure how Obama's plan for Universal Healthcare is going to cut the deficit....

well, at least he's not pretending like he'll give us a surplus like bush did

 

[jillian]

How bout we just cut spending? Smaller government, smaller deficit... sounds pretty simple to me...

Not sure how Obama's plan for Universal Healthcare is going to cut the deficit....

How about not being so freaking stupid as to cut taxes during wartime?

 

[DiamondDave]

unlike you who disregards information because you dont like one of the sources in it [rolls eyes]

A Conservative Convert To Socialized Medicine
The French Health Care System
The Informed Reader - WSJ.com : Is French Health Care Really Better?



france doesnt have a perfect system, but it seems a lot better than what we have now

How many MRI and CAT Scan machines per 100000 people in France?? Maybe you should actually start looking at more things than just cost...


You can find a cheaper cost... not always at equal quality... and no... there is no questioning that the quality of our care is much higher

And lest we not forget... you little libtards and your support of runaway lawsuits against the medical field... raising the costs even more

 

[sealybobo]

and you are incredibly ignorant. how are you able to ignore all the evidence that our healthcare system is far from the best?

They refuse to accept our solution for a broken health care system.

Socializing it will take it off the employers plate.

We pay more now than if we all pool together

We pay more than other countrys simply because they can get away with it.

Corporate America has brainwashed them into believing that if we change it, they'll get worse care/service, when that doesn't have to be true.

Corporate America just won't profit as much.

Conservatives always want to socialize the losses and privatize the profits.

A lot of the cost goes into administrative costs like hmo/ppo/etc. If we get rid of all that, we'll get rid of wasteful costs and doctors won't make any less.

Don't worry, we'll fix it for them anyways.

 

[Chris]

How many MRI and CAT Scan machines per 100000 people in France?? Maybe you should actually start looking at more things than just cost...


You can find a cheaper cost... not always at equal quality... and no... there is no questioning that the quality of our care is much higher

And lest we not forget... you little libtards and your support of runaway lawsuits against the medical field... raising the costs even more

You really need to do a little more reading. Every other country in the Western world has universal healthcare except the United States, and they pay half per capita what we pay, and the quality of care is as good or better than ours.