CDZ What was the world like when guns did not exist?

[Skull Pilot]

Inspections are just a way for the state to take more of your money.
And seat bells are fine just don't force anyone to wear them.

Same goes for motorcycle helmets

I like knowing that the car behind me has had his brakes checked within the last year or so. I get the same feeling when I see a cop with a gun since I know the cop has been through a least a bit of training and knows (in theory) how and when to use that gun. I don't get that feeling when I see someone openly carrying a gun since I know nothing about him or his training.

As for seat belts, as an adult you should get to decide their use but your minor passengers should not get that choice.

I agree with seat belts and helmets being optional for adults but you should pay a premium for your health care since any accident you get into will be significantly more serious and I shouldn't have to pay for your risky behavior. If you don't have health care I'd just leave you by the side of the road.

Inspections do not check brakes at least not in every state. In my state there is no safety inspection at all just an emissions test every other year so as to comply with the federal guidelines for getting highway money.



And that whole I'm paying for your insurance so I can tell you what to do thing is just more bullshit. I pay for my insurance and I don't give a shit what you do because in all reality what you do has a minuscule if any affect on my premiums

It's none of your business if I don't wear a seat belt or a motorcycle helmet.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

Carrying a gun is not the same as using a gun
A concealed carry permit does not give you the right to even show your gun in public and it certainly does not give you the right to use it.

IF you use a gun you are nit considered innocent until proven guilty you have to justify that use first and foremost

 

[Skull Pilot]

------------------------------------------- a persons personal safety in his home or concealed carrying a gun is his business . Got nothing to do with seat belts or speed limits Alang .

Seat belts and speed limits make driving safer, both for driver and innocent bystanders and don't significantly impact car use. You don't think making guns and gun use safer is a worthy goal?

Unenforced speed limits are no more effective than unenforced gun laws

When was the last time you saw anyone not exceeding the speed limit on any road?

 

[alang1216]

I pay for my insurance and I don't give a shit what you do because in all reality what you do has a minuscule if any affect on my premiums

That might have been true under Obama care where the risk pool was large but if you get your health insurance from a small business, one large claim might send everyone's premiums up and that business might be forced to cancel coverage. What you do can have a major impact on others.

 

[Pop23]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

So can a car without a license or registration. Do you even understand your own argument?

 

[Toronado3800]

Wait,

Are you saying Canada doesn't have roughly 1/3 the guns per capita as the U.S?

Look, I own a gun. I know what the 2nd was intended to allow. I just like just being aware.

Like standing behind a Supreme Court Decision about guns is a slap in the face to every anti-abortion folks who are trying to undo a Supreme Court decision.

And honest, everything I read says fewer Canadians per capita are murdered by guns every year than Americans. That dives into a demographics battle. Even if you discount black male deaths the we still "beat" Canada I think.

Gun crime rates are going up in Canada.....their culture and values effect that rate, but it is going up, not down.

ttp://www.macleans.ca/opinion/gun-violence-isnt-just-a-u-s-problem-and-canada-isnt-immune/

In terms of absolute numbers, no other Canadian city comes close to the number of shootings and shooting victims, and shootings in Toronto increased 41 per cent between 2015 and 2016; this year’s numbers are on par with the previous year’s, too.

But when year-over-year changes in gun violence are taken into account, there are other Canadian cities whose problems are at least just as bad.

Local officials in Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Ottawa, and Halifax have all publicly lamented the rise of gun violence in their cities, and with the absence of provincial and federal support, they have found themselves scrambling to implement their own initiatives.

In Regina, there has been a 94-per-cent increase in violent offences involving guns over the five-year average, and a 163-per-cent increase in the number of victims of firearms offences between 2015 to 2016. This prompted the city to conduct a two-week gun amnesty program in February.

Confidence in the federal government’s ability to tackle gun violence in Surrey, B.C. is so low that many residents have contemplated severing ties with the RCMP and setting up their own municipal police force. Surrey Mayor Linda Hepner recently announced the city would be creating its own task force to address gang and gun violence.

The part about gun crime rates going up in Canada misses the point. Its a good counter when ppl can't talk back though because it gives you something to say instead of just, "duh, fewer guns, less gun crime.". The important part there is gun crime is lower.

You need a percentage of women who were able to fight of a man attacking them because the woman had a gun type stat.

You don't know what you are talking about......

I show you that gun crime in Canada is going up....regardless of their gun control laws, and then you make the illogical point that less guns = less gun crime....while the gun crime rate is going up in Canada....it is also going up in Britain, Sweden, Australia......

You have been fooled into thinking that crime rates remain frozen in amber....never to change, no matter how the culture and the society changes...

Canada....

In terms of absolute numbers, no other Canadian city comes close to the number of shootings and shooting victims, and shootings in Toronto increased 41 per cent between 2015 and 2016; this year’s numbers are on par with the previous year’s, too.

But when year-over-year changes in gun violence are taken into account, there are other Canadian cities whose problems are at least just as bad.

Local officials in Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Ottawa, and Halifax have all publicly lamented the rise of gun violence in their cities, and with the absence of provincial and federal support, they have found themselves scrambling to implement their own initiatives.

In Regina, there has been a 94-per-cent increase in violent offences involving guns over the five-year average, and a 163-per-cent increase in the number of victims of firearms offences between 2015 to 2016. This prompted the city to conduct a two-week gun amnesty program in February.

As compared to the U.S.....where more guns = less gun crime...


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

We may be talking past eachother.

I am saying that for whatever reason fewer ppl per capita are murdered in Canada than the U.S. so using a rise in their rate even though its lower is a false stat. List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

Is there a somewhat similar to the U.S. country where guns are illegal we can use?

How about the states that border Canadian provinces?

Borderland Homicides Show Mexico's Gun Control Has Failed | Ryan McMaken

What About the Canada-US Border?
Do we see similar issues along the Canadian-US border?
As I noted in this article, American states near the northern US border tend to have low homicide rates with states like Idaho, Oregon, New Hampshire, and Maine reporting remarkably low homicide rates that are similar too or even lower than Canadian homicide rates.
Using the same color coding as the previous maps (and the same data source), we see that, with the exception of Michigan (i.e., Detroit) the US-Canada border is marked by homicide rates all below 5 per 100,000:


Source: OECD. Map by Ryan McMaken
Of course, the situation in the Canadian border is immensely different from the situation on the Mexican border in terms of ethnicity, income levels, and climate. Crossing the northern border, however, brings nowhere near the sorts of changes in crime that are encountered on the southern side.
Nevertheless, part of this might be attributed to the fact that Canada is far more gun-friendly than Mexico. There is certainly more than one gun store in Canada (to say the least), and it is estimated by the Small Arms Survey that Canada has twice as many guns per capita as Mexico, with 30 per 100 persons.

Wait,

Are you saying Canada doesn't have roughly 1/3 the guns per capita as the U.S?

Look, I own a gun. I know what the 2nd was intended to allow. I just like just being aware.

Like standing behind a Supreme Court Decision about guns is a slap in the face to every anti-abortion folks who are trying to undo a Supreme Court decision.

And honest, everything I read says fewer Canadians per capita are murdered by guns every year than Americans. That dives into a demographics battle. Even if you discount black male deaths the we still "beat" Canada I think.

Gun crime rates are going up in Canada.....their culture and values effect that rate, but it is going up, not down.

ttp://www.macleans.ca/opinion/gun-violence-isnt-just-a-u-s-problem-and-canada-isnt-immune/

In terms of absolute numbers, no other Canadian city comes close to the number of shootings and shooting victims, and shootings in Toronto increased 41 per cent between 2015 and 2016; this year’s numbers are on par with the previous year’s, too.

But when year-over-year changes in gun violence are taken into account, there are other Canadian cities whose problems are at least just as bad.

Local officials in Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Ottawa, and Halifax have all publicly lamented the rise of gun violence in their cities, and with the absence of provincial and federal support, they have found themselves scrambling to implement their own initiatives.

In Regina, there has been a 94-per-cent increase in violent offences involving guns over the five-year average, and a 163-per-cent increase in the number of victims of firearms offences between 2015 to 2016. This prompted the city to conduct a two-week gun amnesty program in February.

Confidence in the federal government’s ability to tackle gun violence in Surrey, B.C. is so low that many residents have contemplated severing ties with the RCMP and setting up their own municipal police force. Surrey Mayor Linda Hepner recently announced the city would be creating its own task force to address gang and gun violence.

The part about gun crime rates going up in Canada misses the point. Its a good counter when ppl can't talk back though because it gives you something to say instead of just, "duh, fewer guns, less gun crime.". The important part there is gun crime is lower.

You need a percentage of women who were able to fight of a man attacking them because the woman had a gun type stat.

You don't know what you are talking about......

I show you that gun crime in Canada is going up....regardless of their gun control laws, and then you make the illogical point that less guns = less gun crime....while the gun crime rate is going up in Canada....it is also going up in Britain, Sweden, Australia......

You have been fooled into thinking that crime rates remain frozen in amber....never to change, no matter how the culture and the society changes...

Canada....

In terms of absolute numbers, no other Canadian city comes close to the number of shootings and shooting victims, and shootings in Toronto increased 41 per cent between 2015 and 2016; this year’s numbers are on par with the previous year’s, too.

But when year-over-year changes in gun violence are taken into account, there are other Canadian cities whose problems are at least just as bad.

Local officials in Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Ottawa, and Halifax have all publicly lamented the rise of gun violence in their cities, and with the absence of provincial and federal support, they have found themselves scrambling to implement their own initiatives.

In Regina, there has been a 94-per-cent increase in violent offences involving guns over the five-year average, and a 163-per-cent increase in the number of victims of firearms offences between 2015 to 2016. This prompted the city to conduct a two-week gun amnesty program in February.

As compared to the U.S.....where more guns = less gun crime...


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

We may be talking past eachother.

I am saying that for whatever reason fewer ppl per capita are murdered in Canada than the U.S. so using a rise in their rate even though its lower is a false stat. List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

Is there a somewhat similar to the U.S. country where guns are illegal we can use?

How about the states that border Canadian provinces?

Borderland Homicides Show Mexico's Gun Control Has Failed | Ryan McMaken

What About the Canada-US Border?
Do we see similar issues along the Canadian-US border?
As I noted in this article, American states near the northern US border tend to have low homicide rates with states like Idaho, Oregon, New Hampshire, and Maine reporting remarkably low homicide rates that are similar too or even lower than Canadian homicide rates.
Using the same color coding as the previous maps (and the same data source), we see that, with the exception of Michigan (i.e., Detroit) the US-Canada border is marked by homicide rates all below 5 per 100,000:


Source: OECD. Map by Ryan McMaken
Of course, the situation in the Canadian border is immensely different from the situation on the Mexican border in terms of ethnicity, income levels, and climate. Crossing the northern border, however, brings nowhere near the sorts of changes in crime that are encountered on the southern side.
Nevertheless, part of this might be attributed to the fact that Canada is far more gun-friendly than Mexico. There is certainly more than one gun store in Canada (to say the least), and it is estimated by the Small Arms Survey that Canada has twice as many guns per capita as Mexico, with 30 per 100 persons.

An interesting source but the statistics are true. The logic also holds, a good post.

What do you think the reasons behind the stats are?

We gotta have a reason besides all reasonable parts of Canada, OR, ID, MI, OH, NH, VT, MA, ME and even WI, NY, ND, SD, MT and a few others are culturally superior to the southern United States in regards to Homicide Rate per 100,000 ppl.

Using the totally non-vetted image from a website called "business insider" I did not see an instant correlation. Well, besides if you live near the arctic circle of someplace inhospitable w/o air conditioning you're more likely to get murdered....terrible climate....mosquitoes.....population growth in most of the southern u.s......I'm grasping straws here. What does that soft "W" between California and PA have in common.

 

[alang1216]

IF you use a gun you are nit considered innocent until proven guilty you have to justify that use first and foremost

Closing the barn door after the horse is gone is not always the most effective solution.

 

[alang1216]

ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

So can a car without a license or registration. Do you even understand your own argument?

You mean do I understand that people don't always obey the law? Yes I do.

 

[2aguy]

Guns should not be subject to registration or regulation unless used at a publicly funded shooting range.

On that we do agree.

We do not agree. ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

Sorry.....history shows that registration is used to confiscate guns.....not so for cars. Regulation? Guns are already heavily regulated. Then you run into the issue of any tax or fee is unConstitutional....Poll Taxes on voting are not allowed, Poll Taxes on owning and carrying a gun are also not allowed.

Explain the purpose of registration of guns.......

 

[Skull Pilot]

I pay for my insurance and I don't give a shit what you do because in all reality what you do has a minuscule if any affect on my premiums

That might have been true under Obama care where the risk pool was large but if you get your health insurance from a small business, one large claim might send everyone's premiums up and that business might be forced to cancel coverage. What you do can have a major impact on others.

It still doesn't matter. And the insurance companies pool ALL their clients they don't call 5 or 6 people a pool because a small business buys part of their insurance.

But let's run with this idea of yours.

You must think I have the right to tell you what to eat because if you're a fat slob you raise my insurance premiums right?

I mean if you can tell me I have to wear a seat belt I can tell you you can't eat anything but kale right? Can I get the government to come into your house and force you to throw away all your Ben and Jerry;s Chunky Monkey because you are costing me money by eating it? After all, you want the government to force me to wear a seat belt because it costs you money

 

[Skull Pilot]

IF you use a gun you are nit considered innocent until proven guilty you have to justify that use first and foremost

Closing the barn door after the horse is gone is not always the most effective solution.

Leaving the barn door open is not a crime.

Besides that CCW permit holders aren't the ones committing most of the murders in the country in fact CCW permit holders are on average more law abiding than the average citizen

 

[Pop23]

ALL guns need registration and regulation since they can all be taken off your private property and into the general public space.

So can a car without a license or registration. Do you even understand your own argument?

You mean do I understand that people don't always obey the law? Yes I do.

I have two cars, neither are registered or licensed. I move them from town to town on occasion without breaking a single law.

You understand that our Governments powers are not always Superior to it's peoples, right?

 

[alang1216]

Poll Taxes on voting are not allowed, Poll Taxes on owning and carrying a gun are also not allowed.

Explain the purpose of registration of guns.......

Like voter registration, it would insure only those entitled to exercise their right are so enabled.

 

[alang1216]

Leaving the barn door open is not a crime.

Nor is it a good policy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Leaving the barn door open is not a crime.

Nor is it a good policy.

irrelevant

Concealed carry does not increase the likelihood of crime

 

[alang1216]

You understand that our Governments powers are not always Superior to it's peoples, right?

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Sorry, but I don't believe you have a God-given right to drive a car or own a gun.

 

[alang1216]

Concealed carry does not increase the likelihood of crime

Probably true but it does increase the likelihood of an accident.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You understand that our Governments powers are not always Superior to it's peoples, right?

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Sorry, but I don't believe you have a God-given right to drive a car or own a gun.

What you believe matters not
The right to bear arms was considered to be an integral part of the natural right of self defense.
Everyone has the absolute right to defend their own life with the best tool available and that tool at least right now is a firearm

 

[Skull Pilot]

Concealed carry does not increase the likelihood of crime

Probably true but it does increase the likelihood of an accident.

Really?

How much?

I don't see too many accidents where a gun carried concealed in a holster goes off

We live in a world of acceptable risk not a world with no risk. You have more of a chance dying from a fall than getting accidentally shot by a person with a CCW permit yet you accept the far greater risk of dying in a fall while telling my I shouldn't be able to carry

 

[Pop23]

You understand that our Governments powers are not always Superior to it's peoples, right?

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Sorry, but I don't believe you have a God-given right to drive a car or own a gun.

Dipshit, I obey the law and still am able to keep cars without license or registration.

You made an argument that guns should be treated equally to cars, and I demonstrated, not only that they are, but guns are treated MUCH MORE HARSHLY than cars.

For the love of God, save yourself and drop the stupidity.