What "rights" does nature give us?

[Procrustes Stretched]

We are a nation of laws, not men or guns

seriously

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

We are a nation of laws, not men or guns

You do realize laws are only accepted because there are the men with guns who enforce them, right?

D'Oh!


How the fuck else would you enforce laws...honor system?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

We are a nation of laws, not men or guns

You do realize laws are only accepted because there are the men with guns who enforce them, right?

That one was pretty funny.

2 million sperm, and Dante was the fastest one?

LOL

do you swallow?

 

[bripat9643]

But let's say some law-breaker does that to you or me. (ignores BUT DOES NOT REMOVE your/my rights, because we have fucking LAWS and mechanisms to support and protect them.) Our police will hunt them down, and if found our criminal justice system will make an example of them. (we penalize and do not reform) So it's a very remote risk in America, that may never happen to you, me or anyone we know.

You are truly naive if you think the police are going to track down and arrest someone who robbed you. When I lived in Baltimore, I was robbed 7 times. The police never did a thing.

Studies have been done that show hard core criminals who are released from prison commit at least 160 robberies a year.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

But let's say some law-breaker does that to you or me. (ignores BUT DOES NOT REMOVE your/my rights, because we have fucking LAWS and mechanisms to support and protect them.) Our police will hunt them down, and if found our criminal justice system will make an example of them. (we penalize and do not reform) So it's a very remote risk in America, that may never happen to you, me or anyone we know.

You are truly naive if you think the police are going to track down and arrest someone who robbed you. When I lived in Baltimore, I was robbed 7 times. The police never did a thing.

Studies have been done that show hard core criminals who are released from prison commit at least 160 robberies a year.

that's because white fags who troll after black youth and get robbed in the process are a low priority in Baltimore

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If we didn't have a government, you'd have a right to own a gun.

See how that works?

 

[dblack]

Studies have been done that show hard core criminals who are released from prison commit at least 160 robberies a year.

Per criminal? Impressive.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Me: No. They did not have rights, which is why the revolts were both illegal and put down. In fact, they didn't have those rights, even in Africa, since despite misconceptions, slavers did not run through the jungle snagging natives; they dealt with chiefs, who sold undesireables within their tribes as well as those captured from other tribes. The rights of slaves to be free came when societies that had slavery abolished it and granted rights to them.

So, as is the case with quantum physics, logic is not your forte'.

If slaves, which have come in all colors over the course of human history, have no right to freedom, then rightfully they must be slaves still, in a state of revolt.

Chiefs rarely if ever sold undesirables within their own tribes, they raided other tribes, kidnapped victims and sold them to the Muslims, who in turn sold them to the Europeans. It was a dirty and corrupt affair at all levels.

You, as a leftist are without integrity. However, those who hold even a modicum of intellectual honesty have long recognized that yes, people DO have an innate right not to be violently kidnapped, bound, and sold into bondage. Again, you are a leftist and view human beings as mere raw materials for the state to dispose of as they please.

This really boils down to the gulf between left and right. The right holds that people are unique creatures based on the ability to reason, that each is a unique individual with unique value, that this imbues human dignity and the fundamental rights.

The left views people as interchangeable parts that have worth only insofar as they are useful to the state and the rulers of the state. No person has any particular value and can be instantly replaced. The people are no more meaningful than a herd of pigs. The meat of the pig is of value, the ability of some pigs to find truffles is of value, but the idea that an individual pig is as foreign to you as the idea that an individual human has value. Oh to be sure you value yourself greatly - hypocrisy is a fundamental truth for leftists, but the "unwashed masses" are just meat machines to serve the state and it's rulers.

Me: That's simply wrong. While nothing can guarantee you will be free of random violence, without our criminal justice system and government making it illegal and punishing law-breakers, violence would run amock, putting you at far greater risk of random and even deliberate violence.

You failed to address his point. No one suggested anarchy.

Me: Our and other modern nations do know this; and we each have varying degrees of freedom to do as we wish. I can smoke pot in the Netherlands, but not here. We have freedom from religion and of religion, which the UK lacks, and so on and so on. But the key is the system of authority within the polities (governments), without which we'd be more like Somalia, where no functioning government is in place, currently; and thus the notion of rights to person and property is a joke, in and around Somalia.

You have no freedom from religion. That phrase is simply the left justifying the coercion used to impose their faith on others.

You again ignorantly trot out Somalia, a land in the grip of dozens of competing Islamic dictators, each promoting totalitarian rule.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Hardly. Here we have rights, even when ignored by individuals. You can come to my home, and do with me what you wish and take what you wish. But we have penalties, because OUR SOCIETY has made it clear that my right to you not killing me or stealing my stuff is vastly more important than your right to kill and steal from me. And vice versa.

The same is true in Somalia.

Here, an individual without sanction from the rulers will be punished if they break into your house. In Somalia, an individual who would break into a house without the sanction of the ruling Imam will be punished by death.

Here, if the KGB desires your house or your goods, BATF or some other DHS agency will break down your door, men with machine guns will come in, magically find a marijuana seed, and will take you house under "asset forfeiture."

Our state steals from whoever they please, whenever they want. There is no restraint and no recourse. In Somalia and the USA, the rulers take what they want and others are punished for the same behavior.

But let's say some law-breaker does that to you or me. (ignores BUT DOES NOT REMOVE your/my rights, because we have fucking LAWS and mechanisms to support and protect them.) Our police will hunt them down, and if found our criminal justice system will make an example of them. (we penalize and do not reform) So it's a very remote risk in America, that may never happen to you, me or anyone we know.

Just as the Imam in Somalia will have his goons hunt down those who steal or rape without his permission. Then will very publicly kill the person to make an example of them.

In Somalia they kill you, and take your stuff.

Whereas in America, the state kills people and takes their stuff. I see the big difference.

Or you can do it to them if you have the upper hand.

There are about 12 Imams who rule Somalia, with 3 who are prominent. No one does anything without their permission.

And the only penalty is being on the losing end. So there, the risk of dying or having your shit taken is VERY HIGH. In fact, you'd almost assuredly have it happen to you, or me, and everyone we know, should we spend much time there.

Depends on which Imam you swear fealty to.

 

[tap4154]

Never ceases to amaze me how ignorant libs are when it comes to American history.

Go get some good books and study up!

BTW... you spent your school years drunk and stoned?

So did Barack Hussein Obama...

and it SHOWS.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No. And neither do you. It's a fucking anarchy at present,

No, it is not anarchy. Navigate away from Communist Dreams and learn something.

It is civil war with different Islamic dictators competing for power. The violence is not random as you claim, but direct by those who seek to rule..

But rejoice, al-Shabaab is poised to take the prize and become the uncontested dictatorial rulers. Then another Al Qaeda based state can join Libya and Egypt. Fucking hell of a job, Barry.

 

[percysunshine]

Hardly. Here we have rights, even when ignored by individuals. You can come to my home, and do with me what you wish and take what you wish. But we have penalties, because OUR SOCIETY has made it clear that my right to you not killing me or stealing my stuff is vastly more important than your right to kill and steal from me. And vice versa.

The same is true in Somalia.

Here, an individual without sanction from the rulers will be punished if they break into your house. In Somalia, an individual who would break into a house without the sanction of the ruling Imam will be punished by death.

Here, if the KGB desires your house or your goods, BATF or some other DHS agency will break down your door, men with machine guns will come in, magically find a marijuana seed, and will take you house under "asset forfeiture."

Our state steals from whoever they please, whenever they want. There is no restraint and no recourse. In Somalia and the USA, the rulers take what they want and others are punished for the same behavior.

If we re-elected Bill Clinton to the presidency, the marijuana seed problem would go away.

 

[Uncensored2008]

that's because white fags who troll after black youth and get robbed in the process are a low priority in Baltimore

Dainty, eat less of the gold paint chips, and your remaining two braincells might function better.

 

[Koios]

Hardly. Here we have rights, even when ignored by individuals. You can come to my home, and do with me what you wish and take what you wish. But we have penalties, because OUR SOCIETY has made it clear that my right to you not killing me or stealing my stuff is vastly more important than your right to kill and steal from me. And vice versa.

The same is true in Somalia.

Here, an individual without sanction from the rulers will be punished if they break into your house. In Somalia, an individual who would break into a house without the sanction of the ruling Imam will be punished by death.

Here, if the KGB desires your house or your goods, BATF or some other DHS agency will break down your door, men with machine guns will come in, magically find a marijuana seed, and will take you house under "asset forfeiture."

Our state steals from whoever they please, whenever they want. There is no restraint and no recourse. In Somalia and the USA, the rulers take what they want and others are punished for the same behavior.

If we re-elected Bill Clinton to the presidency, the marijuana seed problem would go away.

He was president for 8 years, and marijuana remained a Class 1 banned substance.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Keeping drugs illegal is too profitable

 

[Koios]

Me: No. They did not have rights, which is why the revolts were both illegal and put down. In fact, they didn't have those rights, even in Africa, since despite misconceptions, slavers did not run through the jungle snagging natives; they dealt with chiefs, who sold undesireables within their tribes as well as those captured from other tribes. The rights of slaves to be free came when societies that had slavery abolished it and granted rights to them.

So, as is the case with quantum physics, logic is not your forte'.

If slaves, which have come in all colors over the course of human history, have no right to freedom, then rightfully they must be slaves still, in a state of revolt.

Chiefs rarely if ever sold undesirables within their own tribes, they raided other tribes, kidnapped victims and sold them to the Muslims, who in turn sold them to the Europeans. It was a dirty and corrupt affair at all levels.

You, as a leftist are without integrity. However, those who hold even a modicum of intellectual honesty have long recognized that yes, people DO have an innate right not to be violently kidnapped, bound, and sold into bondage. Again, you are a leftist and view human beings as mere raw materials for the state to dispose of as they please.

This really boils down to the gulf between left and right. The right holds that people are unique creatures based on the ability to reason, that each is a unique individual with unique value, that this imbues human dignity and the fundamental rights.

The left views people as interchangeable parts that have worth only insofar as they are useful to the state and the rulers of the state. No person has any particular value and can be instantly replaced. The people are no more meaningful than a herd of pigs. The meat of the pig is of value, the ability of some pigs to find truffles is of value, but the idea that an individual pig is as foreign to you as the idea that an individual human has value. Oh to be sure you value yourself greatly - hypocrisy is a fundamental truth for leftists, but the "unwashed masses" are just meat machines to serve the state and it's rulers.

Me: That's simply wrong. While nothing can guarantee you will be free of random violence, without our criminal justice system and government making it illegal and punishing law-breakers, violence would run amock, putting you at far greater risk of random and even deliberate violence.

You failed to address his point. No one suggested anarchy.

Me: Our and other modern nations do know this; and we each have varying degrees of freedom to do as we wish. I can smoke pot in the Netherlands, but not here. We have freedom from religion and of religion, which the UK lacks, and so on and so on. But the key is the system of authority within the polities (governments), without which we'd be more like Somalia, where no functioning government is in place, currently; and thus the notion of rights to person and property is a joke, in and around Somalia.

You have no freedom from religion. That phrase is simply the left justifying the coercion used to impose their faith on others.

You again ignorantly trot out Somalia, a land in the grip of dozens of competing Islamic dictators, each promoting totalitarian rule.

Oh how little you know. Quantum mechanics, since we know with some predictability what the outcome of particles on the quantum level will be, on average. Thus we know the mechanics. But what's happening (the physics on the quantum level)? Nope. We haven't a clue.

Interesting shit; advise you read up on it.

 

[Sallow]

If we didn't have a government, you'd have a right to own a gun.

See how that works?

Naw.

You wouldn't have any rights.

Nor would you worry about law.

See how that works?

 

[Sallow]

Never ceases to amaze me how ignorant libs are when it comes to American history.

Go get some good books and study up!

BTW... you spent your school years drunk and stoned?

So did Barack Hussein Obama...

and it SHOWS.

Well feel free to school us.

Links and all.

Because no one seems to be able too..

 

[Uncensored2008]

Oh how little you know. Quantum mechanics, since we know with some predictability what the outcome of particles on the quantum level will be, on average. Thus we know the mechanics. But what's happening (the physics on the quantum level)? Nope. We haven't a clue.

Interesting shit; advise you read up on it.

ROFL

Do you really think you can bullshit your way through this?

Sparky, last year there was a bit of stir as large hadron collider at CERN demonstrated that W and Z gauge bosons broke electro-weak symmetry and gained mass. This lent further credence to the theory of Dr. Peter Higgs that a field is present causing pairs of particles to attract. Since it is now shown that the W and Z bosons did gain mass, then this is "settled science" and the standard model is now complete, right?

Except that an enormous number of physicists say that it isn't settled. Why?

I'll even give you the answer, the Hierarchy Problem. Why does this matter, and what is the impact on the standard model?

 

[Koios]

Oh how little you know. Quantum mechanics, since we know with some predictability what the outcome of particles on the quantum level will be, on average. Thus we know the mechanics. But what's happening (the physics on the quantum level)? Nope. We haven't a clue.

Interesting shit; advise you read up on it.

ROFL

Do you really think you can bullshit your way through this?

Sparky, last year there was a bit of stir as large hadron collider at CERN demonstrated that W and Z gauge bosons broke electro-weak symmetry and gained mass. This lent further credence to the theory of Dr. Peter Higgs that a field is present causing pairs of particles to attract. Since it is now shown that the W and Z bosons did gain mass, then this is "settled science" and the standard model is now complete, right?

Except that an enormous number of physicists say that it isn't settled. Why?

I'll even give you the answer, the Hierarchy Problem. Why does this matter, and what is the impact on the standard model?

Yes; that's the mechanics. Now to the physics: What happend on the quantum level to cause it?

Go find out and get back to me. I'm on fucking pins and needles.