What is the fair market value of social order?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by manifold, Sep 29, 2011.

  1. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    The thread we've now beaten into the ground about 'fair share' is one way to view the issue of taxation. And a legitimate one at that. But another equally legitimate way to view the issue is from the standpoint of maintaining social order and the consequent preservation of wealth. History is not without notable examples of short-sited wealthy being ultimately stripped of their wealth by the revolting masses. I'm not suggesting that we're anywhere near that tipping point in the US, but it would be naive to believe that it could never happen here. So with this in mind, what is the fair market value of social order to you? What is the fair market value to a billionaire, with quite a bit to lose? What is the fair market value to a hobo with almost nothing to lose?

    Please discuss.
     
  2. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Bummer.

    Of all my countless thread fails, this one ranks up there among the more disappointing.

    But whatcha gonna do? :dunno:
     
  3. Intense
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    Intense Senior Member

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    Peace = Prosperity. :D Everyone benefits. Establish and maintain Justice and we are all served. That is the foundation. Stray, and shit will pop up.
     
  4. Twofox
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    Twofox Active Member

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    "Fair market value" is a relative term. If I have nothing to give, then monetarily, I wouldn't want to spend much, but it's intrinsic value might be countless. On the other hand, if well to do, then price may not be as much of an object, but if it forceably takes something away from me, then it's value diminishes drastically.

    Social order by definition is (paraphrased) the enforcement of laws, and policing of criminals and whatnot. So to both those with, and without, it has extreme value. Those without can rely on relative safety even though they may have to live in a box down by the river.

    Fair taxation is more than able to accomplish this, it had for years and years. What changed? The Gov't spending foolishly (ok they do by definition), and letting things get out of control. So now you have folks saying our constitutional republic doesn't work, but subvert anything and you can say it doesn't work.

    This brings up a final point on taxation. Paying your fair share would mean that everyone pays the same percentage of their income in taxes. Or they pay the same abount as everyone else via a sales tax. Either way, saying someone doesn't pay their fair share, when they are already paying something, and 50% don't pay anything is complete, utter, bullshit designed to obtain something else completely.
     
  5. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    In the context of this discussion, I'm not sure what you mean by 'establish and maintain justice'. Social order is a fairly objective concept universally understood. Justice on the other hand can mean different things to different people.
     
  6. Intense
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    Intense Senior Member

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    The reaction to the failure to establish and maintain Justice is instinctive. When the Social Order strays, there is repercussion. It is pretty universal when you think about it. There are thing that do not sit well across the board. Things that when imposed offend our nature.
     
  7. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    And what role do you think poverty plays in undermining social order?
     
  8. Soggy in NOLA
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    Soggy in NOLA Platinum Member

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    A great deal.. that's why progressives promote it so. All part of the plan man...
     
  9. Intense
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    Intense Senior Member

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    That all depends on the safety net. ;)When times turn desperate, people are subject to bad temptation. Pain, Starvation, misery, index.
     
  10. Twofox
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    Twofox Active Member

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    Agreed, progressives love that. Human nature is such that when people get desperate, desperate measures are taken. Simple survival. This is why a strong economy is important. When folks are able to take care of themselves, the social fabric is stronger, and the need for a Gov't imposed social order is very much diminished.
     

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