What is currently holding YOU back from success???

[Avatar4321]

And now we're getting to the root of the debate.

Should a middle class income be GUARANTEED as a result of hard work? Janitors work hard. So do ditch diggers. Should they be paid $75,000 a year? Cops avg about 40K a year. Teachers and firemen too. They love their jobs anyway and seem to live nice lives.

To have FREEDOM also means risking the chance of failing. We can do whatever we want.

But if one chooses to pursue a life as an artist, or blogger, or rapper, or basketball player, and fails, don't cry to everyone else at age 35 when you aren't earning 75K a year working at Subway.

We are free. We are free to choose our path to a career. To guarantee and outcome is to remove freedom.

Since when is an income truly "guaranteed"? that's the problem. People expect everything to be guarenteed when that's simply impossible in life.

Only thing guaranteed in life is DEATH, and taxes.

Im not so certain about the first one

 

[bucs90]

For you to make a living wage, or get your fair share, or get a good job, or just get whatever it is you think is fair in life, what is stopping you right now?

- Is it lack of education? Colleges are accepting people.
- Lack of a job? Dominoes is hiring. Lots of people are hiring. But it'll be crappy work. However, even at Dominoes, you can make enough to get by and even pay for community college to learn a trade you can use to work.
- Is it a criminal record? Oops. Your fault.
- Is it the refusal to take a job that you feel is below you? Drop the pride.
- Is it debt? Medical? College? Fair enough. Take two jobs. Pay it down. It's gonna suck, but it's possible. You may have to work 2 jobs, 80 hours a week. Wait tables. Bartend. Deliver papers.
- Is it simply pride? Are you too proud to take a crappy job?

I just can't understand how any American can NOT be earning at least $40,000 if they want to. It may require working two jobs, or one job and working in a bar or restaurant at night or weekends. I see the classifieds on Sundays. People are hiring. Willing to wash dishes? YOu can earn $20,000 a year doing that full time, and plenty are looking. Supplement that with a second job, like delivering pizzas at night, or bartending, or driving a cab, or ANY of the many jobs in the classifieds, and you'll probably earn between $30-40,000 before taxes. Get a roommate. Thats a 60-80K combined.

Maybe I"m just not seeing the point. Work is out there for the willing. People can get by. I know people who worked two jobs for a decade or so, in the 80's, 90's, 00's. It's been done for a long long time , until they met enough connections or got enough experience, or paid their way through tech school, to finally land that good job.

I'm just interested. WHAT is holding you or anyone you know back from earning a fair wage?

What's holding me back? Not being able to pay my workers Third World wages. We need to get rid of the minimum wage and all labor laws.

The market needs to be as free as possible, so that I can manufacture shoes at Honduran level wages. And that's being generous, because they still get paid better than the Indonesians.

Ok. So we have a Dept of Labor to prevent that. Which means we no longer need unions. They are both doing the same job. But unions are costing too much. The Dept of Labor and OSHA are everyone's union now.

Good. Get rid of unions, thats more money in the worker's pockets.

Next idea?

 

[Utilitarian]

For you to make a living wage, or get your fair share, or get a good job, or just get whatever it is you think is fair in life, what is stopping you right now?

- Is it lack of education? Colleges are accepting people.
- Lack of a job? Dominoes is hiring. Lots of people are hiring. But it'll be crappy work. However, even at Dominoes, you can make enough to get by and even pay for community college to learn a trade you can use to work.
- Is it a criminal record? Oops. Your fault.
- Is it the refusal to take a job that you feel is below you? Drop the pride.
- Is it debt? Medical? College? Fair enough. Take two jobs. Pay it down. It's gonna suck, but it's possible. You may have to work 2 jobs, 80 hours a week. Wait tables. Bartend. Deliver papers.
- Is it simply pride? Are you too proud to take a crappy job?

I just can't understand how any American can NOT be earning at least $40,000 if they want to. It may require working two jobs, or one job and working in a bar or restaurant at night or weekends. I see the classifieds on Sundays. People are hiring. Willing to wash dishes? YOu can earn $20,000 a year doing that full time, and plenty are looking. Supplement that with a second job, like delivering pizzas at night, or bartending, or driving a cab, or ANY of the many jobs in the classifieds, and you'll probably earn between $30-40,000 before taxes. Get a roommate. Thats a 60-80K combined.

Maybe I"m just not seeing the point. Work is out there for the willing. People can get by. I know people who worked two jobs for a decade or so, in the 80's, 90's, 00's. It's been done for a long long time , until they met enough connections or got enough experience, or paid their way through tech school, to finally land that good job.

I'm just interested. WHAT is holding you or anyone you know back from earning a fair wage?

What's holding me back? Not being able to pay my workers Third World wages. We need to get rid of the minimum wage and all labor laws.

The market needs to be as free as possible, so that I can manufacture shoes at Honduran level wages. And that's being generous, because they still get paid better than the Indonesians.

Ok. So we have a Dept of Labor to prevent that. Which means we no longer need unions. They are both doing the same job. But unions are costing too much. The Dept of Labor and OSHA are everyone's union now.

Good. Get rid of unions, thats more money in the worker's pockets.

Next idea?

The Dept. of Labor and OSHA are too intrusive. Get rid of them too.

 

[Dragon]

Should a middle class income be GUARANTEED as a result of hard work?

If a society is rich enough to make that possible, yes.

In any case, it's not an absolute either-or. It's more-less, like a lot of other things. I take as the best period in America's economic history the years from the end of World War II until the OPEC oil embargo of 1973. During those nearly three decades, anyone who was willing to work for it could have a decent living, and anyone willing to put in some intelligence as well as hard work could live a middle-class lifestyle. You had to work to succeed, but it wasn't really all that hard, and the reason was that the wealth of the nation was broadly shared, not concentrated at the top.

To have FREEDOM also means risking the chance of failing. We can do whatever we want.

Whose freedom to do what? The average person doesn't have more economic freedom now than he or she had in 1973. Only the very rich and corporations have more -- and because they do, everyone else has less.

But if one chooses to pursue a life as an artist, or blogger, or rapper, or basketball player, and fails, don't cry to everyone else at age 35 when you aren't earning 75K a year working at Subway.

You know very well, or you should, that that has nothing to do with the lowered circumstances people face today.

Again: when ONE person fails, that might be his fault. But when MOST people fail, that almost certainly isn't. Somehow the game has been rigged.

 

[The T]

For you to make a living wage, or get your fair share, or get a good job, or just get whatever it is you think is fair in life, what is stopping you right now?

- Is it lack of education? Colleges are accepting people.
- Lack of a job? Dominoes is hiring. Lots of people are hiring. But it'll be crappy work. However, even at Dominoes, you can make enough to get by and even pay for community college to learn a trade you can use to work.
- Is it a criminal record? Oops. Your fault.
- Is it the refusal to take a job that you feel is below you? Drop the pride.
- Is it debt? Medical? College? Fair enough. Take two jobs. Pay it down. It's gonna suck, but it's possible. You may have to work 2 jobs, 80 hours a week. Wait tables. Bartend. Deliver papers.
- Is it simply pride? Are you too proud to take a crappy job?

I just can't understand how any American can NOT be earning at least $40,000 if they want to. It may require working two jobs, or one job and working in a bar or restaurant at night or weekends. I see the classifieds on Sundays. People are hiring. Willing to wash dishes? YOu can earn $20,000 a year doing that full time, and plenty are looking. Supplement that with a second job, like delivering pizzas at night, or bartending, or driving a cab, or ANY of the many jobs in the classifieds, and you'll probably earn between $30-40,000 before taxes. Get a roommate. Thats a 60-80K combined.

Maybe I"m just not seeing the point. Work is out there for the willing. People can get by. I know people who worked two jobs for a decade or so, in the 80's, 90's, 00's. It's been done for a long long time , until they met enough connections or got enough experience, or paid their way through tech school, to finally land that good job.

I'm just interested. WHAT is holding you or anyone you know back from earning a fair wage?

What's holding me back? Not being able to pay my workers Third World wages. We need to get rid of the minimum wage and all labor laws.

The market needs to be as free as possible, so that I can manufacture shoes at Honduran level wages. And that's being generous, because they still get paid better than the Indonesians.

Ok. So we have a Dept of Labor to prevent that. Which means we no longer need unions. They are both doing the same job. But unions are costing too much. The Dept of Labor and OSHA are everyone's union now.

Good. Get rid of unions, thats more money in the worker's pockets.

Next idea?

Abolishing the NLRB that is pro-UNION?

 

[The T]

Since when is an income truly "guaranteed"? that's the problem. People expect everything to be guarenteed when that's simply impossible in life.

Only thing guaranteed in life is DEATH, and taxes.

Im not so certain about the first one

Death from Earthly tatters...ON to a higher plain of existence.

 

[Salt Jones]

For you to make a living wage, or get your fair share, or get a good job, or just get whatever it is you think is fair in life, what is stopping you right now?

- Is it lack of education? Colleges are accepting people.
- Lack of a job? Dominoes is hiring. Lots of people are hiring. But it'll be crappy work. However, even at Dominoes, you can make enough to get by and even pay for community college to learn a trade you can use to work.
- Is it a criminal record? Oops. Your fault.
- Is it the refusal to take a job that you feel is below you? Drop the pride.
- Is it debt? Medical? College? Fair enough. Take two jobs. Pay it down. It's gonna suck, but it's possible. You may have to work 2 jobs, 80 hours a week. Wait tables. Bartend. Deliver papers.
- Is it simply pride? Are you too proud to take a crappy job?

I just can't understand how any American can NOT be earning at least $40,000 if they want to. It may require working two jobs, or one job and working in a bar or restaurant at night or weekends. I see the classifieds on Sundays. People are hiring. Willing to wash dishes? YOu can earn $20,000 a year doing that full time, and plenty are looking. Supplement that with a second job, like delivering pizzas at night, or bartending, or driving a cab, or ANY of the many jobs in the classifieds, and you'll probably earn between $30-40,000 before taxes. Get a roommate. Thats a 60-80K combined.

Maybe I"m just not seeing the point. Work is out there for the willing. People can get by. I know people who worked two jobs for a decade or so, in the 80's, 90's, 00's. It's been done for a long long time , until they met enough connections or got enough experience, or paid their way through tech school, to finally land that good job.

I'm just interested. WHAT is holding you or anyone you know back from earning a fair wage?

Nothing is holding me back, I have succeeded in my career field. I also networked my son into the same career and he was making $49K at 19 years old. The only thing that holds anyone back is themselves. As I tell my kids "If your great-great-great-great grandparents can survive slavery, fight for the right to learn to read, vote and be treated with dignity. Then your black ass can get up: go to school, get a job, show up on time, vote and provide for yourself and family."

 

[The T]

Since when is an income truly "guaranteed"? that's the problem. People expect everything to be guarenteed when that's simply impossible in life.

Only thing guaranteed in life is DEATH, and taxes.

The second is optional if you're GE, Exxon, etc.

I'm speaking on an individual plain my friend. (Not Crony Capitalism)

 

[bucs90]

Should a middle class income be GUARANTEED as a result of hard work?

If a society is rich enough to make that possible, yes.

In any case, it's not an absolute either-or. It's more-less, like a lot of other things. I take as the best period in America's economic history the years from the end of World War II until the OPEC oil embargo of 1973. During those nearly three decades, anyone who was willing to work for it could have a decent living, and anyone willing to put in some intelligence as well as hard work could live a middle-class lifestyle. You had to work to succeed, but it wasn't really all that hard, and the reason was that the wealth of the nation was broadly shared, not concentrated at the top.

To have FREEDOM also means risking the chance of failing. We can do whatever we want.

Whose freedom to do what? The average person doesn't have more economic freedom now than he or she had in 1973. Only the very rich and corporations have more -- and because they do, everyone else has less.

But if one chooses to pursue a life as an artist, or blogger, or rapper, or basketball player, and fails, don't cry to everyone else at age 35 when you aren't earning 75K a year working at Subway.

You know very well, or you should, that that has nothing to do with the lowered circumstances people face today.

Again: when ONE person fails, that might be his fault. But when MOST people fail, that almost certainly isn't. Somehow the game has been rigged.

I disagree 100%.

- You're saying that EVERYONE who worked hard from, say, 1940-2000 had a middle class life style? Plenty of brick layers and janitors worked hard but weren't mid class.

- Freedom to fail. If we guarantee 75K a year to anyone who "works hard" then we must assign a career, right? Because if not, some jerk is gonna be paid 75K to test video games or work as a life guard on a beach, while others must dig ditches and unclog toilets for the same 75K. If we guarantee income, we must assign jobs, else it wont be fair when someone gets a better job than someone else with the same gov't guaranteed income. If you pursue an art career, understand you probably will be broke. Thats why people go work in cubicles doing shit they hate because it's more steady.

- People's ambitions have a LOT to do with current circumstance. People are so entitled these days. Everyone wants the cool, cozy job immediately. Priorities are all fu**ed up. Everyone refused to take dirty jobs. Thats why we must IMPORT WORKERS to do the shit that regular Joes did in the 50's. We've become a bunch of entitled, spoiled, soft, whiners.




So how would you suggest we guarantee a 75K-ish income for anyone who works hard, and how would you suggest we test that persons work to determine if he has worked "hard enough" to be issued that guaranteed income??????????????????????

 

[The T]

Should a middle class income be GUARANTEED as a result of hard work?

If a society is rich enough to make that possible, yes.

In any case, it's not an absolute either-or. It's more-less, like a lot of other things. I take as the best period in America's economic history the years from the end of World War II until the OPEC oil embargo of 1973. During those nearly three decades, anyone who was willing to work for it could have a decent living, and anyone willing to put in some intelligence as well as hard work could live a middle-class lifestyle. You had to work to succeed, but it wasn't really all that hard, and the reason was that the wealth of the nation was broadly shared, not concentrated at the top.



Whose freedom to do what? The average person doesn't have more economic freedom now than he or she had in 1973. Only the very rich and corporations have more -- and because they do, everyone else has less.

But if one chooses to pursue a life as an artist, or blogger, or rapper, or basketball player, and fails, don't cry to everyone else at age 35 when you aren't earning 75K a year working at Subway.

You know very well, or you should, that that has nothing to do with the lowered circumstances people face today.

Again: when ONE person fails, that might be his fault. But when MOST people fail, that almost certainly isn't. Somehow the game has been rigged.

I disagree 100%.

- You're saying that EVERYONE who worked hard from, say, 1940-2000 had a middle class life style? Plenty of brick layers and janitors worked hard but weren't mid class.

- Freedom to fail. If we guarantee 75K a year to anyone who "works hard" then we must assign a career, right? Because if not, some jerk is gonna be paid 75K to test video games or work as a life guard on a beach, while others must dig ditches and unclog toilets for the same 75K. If we guarantee income, we must assign jobs, else it wont be fair when someone gets a better job than someone else with the same gov't guaranteed income. If you pursue an art career, understand you probably will be broke. Thats why people go work in cubicles doing shit they hate because it's more steady.

- People's ambitions have a LOT to do with current circumstance. People are so entitled these days. Everyone wants the cool, cozy job immediately. Priorities are all fu**ed up. Everyone refused to take dirty jobs. Thats why we must IMPORT WORKERS to do the shit that regular Joes did in the 50's. We've become a bunch of entitled, spoiled, soft, whiners.




So how would you suggest we guarantee a 75K-ish income for anyone who works hard, and how would you suggest we test that persons work to determine if he has worked "hard enough" to be issued that guaranteed income??????????????????????

Maybe some have a problem with what the Free Market will bear? And have a problem too when they are summarily rejected by thier absurd demands on the Market?

 

[Douger]

Pick tomatoes. The Mexican kids do it and send half of what they make back home.

 

[francoHFW]

" It's no longer Boooosh's fault- He just started a Depression and the the two stupidest wars EVER. Now it's Pubs blocking the recovery (since 2/4/2010) and the huge Pub propaganda machine scaring the HELL out of people..."

 

[Utilitarian]

Pick tomatoes. The Mexican kids do it and send half of what they make back home.

In short, lower your expectations, and live 3 to a bedroom and such.

Tents are cheap too.

 

[Big Black Dog]

A stool softener. I think I need a good stool softener and then I will be successful.

 

[francoHFW]

Should a middle class income be GUARANTEED as a result of hard work?

If a society is rich enough to make that possible, yes.

In any case, it's not an absolute either-or. It's more-less, like a lot of other things. I take as the best period in America's economic history the years from the end of World War II until the OPEC oil embargo of 1973. During those nearly three decades, anyone who was willing to work for it could have a decent living, and anyone willing to put in some intelligence as well as hard work could live a middle-class lifestyle. You had to work to succeed, but it wasn't really all that hard, and the reason was that the wealth of the nation was broadly shared, not concentrated at the top.



Whose freedom to do what? The average person doesn't have more economic freedom now than he or she had in 1973. Only the very rich and corporations have more -- and because they do, everyone else has less.

But if one chooses to pursue a life as an artist, or blogger, or rapper, or basketball player, and fails, don't cry to everyone else at age 35 when you aren't earning 75K a year working at Subway.

You know very well, or you should, that that has nothing to do with the lowered circumstances people face today.

Again: when ONE person fails, that might be his fault. But when MOST people fail, that almost certainly isn't. Somehow the game has been rigged.

I disagree 100%.

- You're saying that EVERYONE who worked hard from, say, 1940-2000 had a middle class life style? Plenty of brick layers and janitors worked hard but weren't mid class.

- Freedom to fail. If we guarantee 75K a year to anyone who "works hard" then we must assign a career, right? Because if not, some jerk is gonna be paid 75K to test video games or work as a life guard on a beach, while others must dig ditches and unclog toilets for the same 75K. If we guarantee income, we must assign jobs, else it wont be fair when someone gets a better job than someone else with the same gov't guaranteed income. If you pursue an art career, understand you probably will be broke. Thats why people go work in cubicles doing shit they hate because it's more steady.

- People's ambitions have a LOT to do with current circumstance. People are so entitled these days. Everyone wants the cool, cozy job immediately. Priorities are all fu**ed up. Everyone refused to take dirty jobs. Thats why we must IMPORT WORKERS to do the shit that regular Joes did in the 50's. We've become a bunch of entitled, spoiled, soft, whiners.




So how would you suggest we guarantee a 75K-ish income for anyone who works hard, and how would you suggest we test that persons work to determine if he has worked "hard enough" to be issued that guaranteed income??????????????????????

What the FEQ are you talking about? No one is talking about 75k but brainwashed dittoheads. We're, I believe, talking about a living wage, ELEVEN DOLLARS/hour, the equivalent of 1968's min. wage. It was Nixon and later Pubs ruining the min wage that has brought us to this. A wage less than that is below the poverty rate and NOT Survivable,- that's why people are hopeless. And those fast food jobs and the rest have no health care to boot, and you're "OVERQUALIFIED"...

Dems will fix that AND OVERPRICED education (public college prices DOUBLED just under Boooosh)- Pubs will just continue the voodoo ruin of the non rich, dupes...

 

[bucs90]

Franco, you are one brainwashed motherfucker, I'll give you that.

Don't hold your breathe waiting for Libs to "fix" this to where you'll get $11/hour for flipping a burger. Some cops dont even get paid that. And they get by.

 

[The T]

If a society is rich enough to make that possible, yes.

In any case, it's not an absolute either-or. It's more-less, like a lot of other things. I take as the best period in America's economic history the years from the end of World War II until the OPEC oil embargo of 1973. During those nearly three decades, anyone who was willing to work for it could have a decent living, and anyone willing to put in some intelligence as well as hard work could live a middle-class lifestyle. You had to work to succeed, but it wasn't really all that hard, and the reason was that the wealth of the nation was broadly shared, not concentrated at the top.



Whose freedom to do what? The average person doesn't have more economic freedom now than he or she had in 1973. Only the very rich and corporations have more -- and because they do, everyone else has less.



You know very well, or you should, that that has nothing to do with the lowered circumstances people face today.

Again: when ONE person fails, that might be his fault. But when MOST people fail, that almost certainly isn't. Somehow the game has been rigged.

I disagree 100%.

- You're saying that EVERYONE who worked hard from, say, 1940-2000 had a middle class life style? Plenty of brick layers and janitors worked hard but weren't mid class.

- Freedom to fail. If we guarantee 75K a year to anyone who "works hard" then we must assign a career, right? Because if not, some jerk is gonna be paid 75K to test video games or work as a life guard on a beach, while others must dig ditches and unclog toilets for the same 75K. If we guarantee income, we must assign jobs, else it wont be fair when someone gets a better job than someone else with the same gov't guaranteed income. If you pursue an art career, understand you probably will be broke. Thats why people go work in cubicles doing shit they hate because it's more steady.

- People's ambitions have a LOT to do with current circumstance. People are so entitled these days. Everyone wants the cool, cozy job immediately. Priorities are all fu**ed up. Everyone refused to take dirty jobs. Thats why we must IMPORT WORKERS to do the shit that regular Joes did in the 50's. We've become a bunch of entitled, spoiled, soft, whiners.




So how would you suggest we guarantee a 75K-ish income for anyone who works hard, and how would you suggest we test that persons work to determine if he has worked "hard enough" to be issued that guaranteed income??????????????????????

What the FEQ are talking about? No one is talking about 75k but brainwashed dittoheads. We're, I believe, talking about a living wage, ELEVEN DOLLARS/hour, the equivalent of 1968's min. wage. It was Nixon and later Pubs ruining the min wage that has brought us to this. A wage less than that is below the poverty rate and NOT Survivable,- that's why people are hopeless. And those fast food jobs and the rest have no health care to boot, and you're "OVERQUALIFIED"...

Dems will fix that AND OVERPRICED education (public college prices DOUBLED just under Boooosh)- Pubs will just continue the voodoo ruin of the non rich, dupes...

It wasn't a DITTOHEAD that brought up that figure...it was a Liberal.

Pay attention...dumbass.

 

[bucs90]

Exactly.

So, we now have a concrete number from a liberal. A fair wage is $75,000.

So, all our soldiers, cops, firemen, teachers are being mistreated. A cop/teacher marriage earning a combined income of 70K, raising 2 kids, but somehow still making ends meet.....they now have an excuse!!!

Yep. Pay all workers 75K a year. It's only fair.

 

[francoHFW]

Typical. One fool or sarcasm about 75k from one person and all the dittoheads run with it. Soon will be on Fox as a OWS demand... Stupidest party of tools of the greedy rich in the modern WORLD. In fact, the ONLY one.

Cops being paid less than a living wage is a GREAT idea. Same with pilots like Flight 3407. You stupid a-holes won't be happy until we're a giant banana republic like Costa Rica. We're already close after 30 years of Voodoo and PFFFFFT W. And I'm retired, JACKAZZ.

 

[bucs90]

I was paid min wage once. $4.25 an hour back then. Somehow rose above that to live a pretty ok life.