What is constitutes as torture.

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by brneyedgrl80, Jun 16, 2004.

  1. brneyedgrl80
    Offline

    brneyedgrl80 Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Messages:
    558
    Thanks Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Phoenix-it's-dry-heat-Arizona
    Ratings:
    +3
    This won't hurt much

    Terry Jones
    Wednesday June 16, 2004
    The Guardian

    For some time now, I've been trying to find out where my son goes after choir practice. He simply refuses to tell me. He says it's no business of mine where he goes after choir practice and it's a free country.
    Now it may be a free country, but if people start going just anywhere they like after choir practice, goodness knows whether we'll have a country left to be free. I mean, he might be going to anarchist meetings or Islamic study groups. How do I know?

    The thing is, if people don't say where they're going after choir practice, this country is at risk. So I have been applying a certain amount of pressure on my son to tell me where he's going. To begin with I simply put a bag over his head and chained him to a radiator. But did that persuade him? Does the Pope eat kosher?

    My wife had the gall to suggest that I might be going a bit too far. So I put a bag over her head and chained her to the radiator. But I still couldn't persuade my son to tell me where he goes after choir practice.

    I tried starving him, serving him only cold meals and shaving his facial hair off, keeping him in stress positions, not turning his light off, playing loud music outside his cell door - all the usual stuff that any concerned parent will do to find out where their child is going after choir practice. But it was all to no avail.

    I hesitated to gravitate to harsher interrogation methods because, after all, he is my son. Then Donald Rumsfeld came to my rescue.

    I read in the New York Times last week that a memo had been prepared for the defence secretary on March 6 2003. It laid down the strictest guidelines as to what is and what is not torture. Because, let's face it, none of us want to actually torture our children, in case the police get to hear about it.

    The March 6 memo, prepared for Mr Rumsfeld explained that what may look like torture is not really torture at all. It states that: if someone "knows that severe pain will result from his actions, if causing such harm is not his objective, he lacks the requisite specific intent even though the defendant did not act in good faith".

    What this means in understandable English is that if a parent, in his anxiety to know where his son goes after choir practice, does something that will cause severe pain to his son, it is only "torture" if the causing of that severe pain is his objective. If his objective is something else - such as finding out where his son goes after choir practice - then it is not torture.

    Mr Rumsfeld's memo goes on: "a defendant" (by which he means a concerned parent) "is guilty of torture only if he acts with the express purpose of inflicting severe pain or suffering on a person within his control".

    Couldn't be clearer. If your intention is to extract information, you cannot be accused of torture.

    In fact, the report went further. It said, if a parent "has a good-faith belief [that] his actions will not result in prolonged mental harm, he lacks the mental state necessary for his actions to constitute torture". So all you've got to do to avoid accusations of child abuse is to say that you didn't think it would cause any lasting harm to the child. Easy peasy!

    Advertiser links
    We Are The Future - Child Charities
    Raising funds to benefit boys and girls in war-torn cities....

    wearethefuture.com

    Children International - Sponsor a Child
    For only $18 a month, you can make a difference in the life...

    children.org

    Help Needy and Hungry Children
    Sponsor children who need your help today. Help us feed...

    planusa.org
    I currently have a lot of my son's friends locked up in the garage, and I'm applying electrical charges to their genitals and sexually humiliating them in order to get them to tell me where my son goes after choir practice.

    Dick Cheney's counsel, David S Addington, says that's just fine. William J Haynes, the US defence department's general counsel, agrees it's just fine. And so does the US air force general counsel, Mary Walker.

    In fact, practically everybody in the US administration seems to think it's just fine, except for the state department lawyer, William H Taft IV, who perversely claims that I might be opening the door to people applying electrical charges to my genitals and sexually humiliating me.

    So I'm going to round up all the children in the neighbourhood, chain them and set dogs on them. I might accidentally kill one or two - but I won't have intended to - and perhaps I'll take some photos of my wife standing on the dead bodies, and then I'll show the photos to the other kids, and finally, perhaps, I might get to find out where my son goes after choir practice. After all, I'll only be doing what the US administration has been condoning since 9/11.

    · Terry Jones is a writer, film director, actor and Python

    terry-jones.net


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1239824,00.html
     
  2. DKSuddeth
    Offline

    DKSuddeth Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    5,175
    Thanks Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    North Texas
    Ratings:
    +62
    that was good. :cof:
     
  3. menewa
    Offline

    menewa Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    474
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Denton, Texas
    Ratings:
    +13
    But it actually is an apt comparison, at least in legal terms. Children are considered, legally, as being in the custody of their parents. Prisoners, legally,are in the custody of the state or nation that has apprehended them. Of course POWs and children share no comparison outside the legal framework unless one's child is a school shooter. But considering this is a country of law, the legal comparison is pretty damned pertinent.
     
  4. HGROKIT
    Offline

    HGROKIT Active Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,398
    Thanks Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Federal Way WA, USA
    Ratings:
    +19
    However, one is by birth, the other by circumstance.

    The legal comparison is apples and oranges and the analogy stinks.

    Creative writing however and I did get a chuckle out of it.
     
  5. nycflasher
    Offline

    nycflasher Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    Messages:
    3,078
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    CT
    Ratings:
    +14
    Sweet story.

    What's up with the title of this thread, though?
     
  6. menewa
    Offline

    menewa Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    474
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Denton, Texas
    Ratings:
    +13
    That's the typical reaction I get from a lot of my postings.;)
     
  7. ajwps
    Offline

    ajwps Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,302
    Thanks Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Ratings:
    +46
    This is not a Monty Python satire on the necessity for torture of Islamites. This Islamic daughter honor murder event is well known by most posters.

    http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/1983/

     
  8. NightTrain
    Offline

    NightTrain VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,425
    Thanks Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Wasilla, Alaska
    Ratings:
    +87
    While humorous, it is not an accurate comparison by any stretch.

    What kind of knucklehead can compare parenting your children with treatment of suspected terrorists that may or may not have crucial information?
     
  9. OCA
    Offline

    OCA Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    7,014
    Thanks Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Washington D.C.
    Ratings:
    +223
    This reminded me to get my daily lift and moral boost from the pictures of soldiers doing their duty.
     
  10. budboomer
    Offline

    budboomer Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    Messages:
    70
    Thanks Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Ratings:
    +6
    My mind goes numb again.
    How you can compare enemy combatants to raising your children is just ....................I don't have a clue. This is exactly how the liberal mind functions. It distorts and then clouds over. The result is: BLEEDING HEARTS.
    The enemy combatants that America has locked up should feel very lucky. They are still alive. American airmen shot down over the Pacific during WW2, when captured by the Japanese, were beheaded. No questions asked. They didn't have the chance to get chained to anything or to try to survive. They were executed.
    If the liberals need anything, it is a history lesson. Oh, that's right, they have thier heads stuck so far up thier ass they can't learn anything. They're to busy chanting to themselves "If everything will just go away and be good again.:confused:
     

Share This Page