What is a natural right?

Votto

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2012
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When the US was formed, the Founders claimed that we had natural rights. And today, all you hear is people claiming that they have rights, or should have rights, but is it the same concept?

The Bill of Rights, for example, was designed to enforce our natural rights from the perspective of the Founding Fathers. Progressives today, refer to them as "negative" rights. The Bill of Rights were these negative rights which hand cuffed the government in a variety of ways telling it what it could not do to you., the private citizen. Conversely, FDR proposed a long list of natural rights that Progressives refer to as "positive" rights. These are a long list of rights that proclaim all the wonderful things government will do for you that you really deserve.

But notice the psychology of terms. One is "negative" and the other "positive". It is the Freudian slight of hand that suggests one is superior to the other, and perhaps the other should be done away with altogether.

Those who favor positive rights have the presumption that those in government who promote natural rights are good, and everyone else that disagrees or points to problems that arise from positive rights are all bad. In fact, those promoting positive rights want some of our negative rights removed from law. For example, Progressives have for a long time wanted the Second Amendment to be removed from the Bill of Rights, and increasingly more even want the First Amendment repealed as well since most no longer think freedom of speech is doable.

So who is right? Were the Founding Fathers right to focus on restricting the powers that be to help keep us free, or were the Progressives right? Should we not fear the corrupting power of the powers that be and instead focus on giving them more power over us?

That to me is really the dividing line.
 
When the US was formed, the Founders claimed that we had natural rights. And today, all you hear is people claiming that they have rights, or should have rights, but is it the same concept?

The Bill of Rights, for example, was designed to enforce our natural rights from the perspective of the Founding Fathers. Progressives today, refer to them as "negative" rights. The Bill of Rights were these negative rights which hand cuffed the government in a variety of ways telling it what it could not do to you., the private citizen. Conversely, FDR proposed a long list of natural rights that Progressives refer to as "positive" rights. These are a long list of rights that proclaim all the wonderful things government will do for you that you really deserve.

But notice the psychology of terms. One is "negative" and the other "positive". It is the Freudian slight of hand that suggests one is superior to the other, and perhaps the other should be done away with altogether.

Those who favor positive rights have the presumption that those in government who promote natural rights are good, and everyone else that disagrees or points to problems that arise from positive rights are all bad. In fact, those promoting positive rights want some of our negative rights removed from law. For example, Progressives have for a long time wanted the Second Amendment to be removed from the Bill of Rights, and increasingly more even want the First Amendment repealed as well since most no longer think freedom of speech is doable.

So who is right? Were the Founding Fathers right to focus on restricting the powers that be to help keep us free, or were the Progressives right? Should we not fear the corrupting power of the powers that be and instead focus on giving them more power over us?

That to me is really the dividing line.
What's natural born citizen mean ?
 
Its rights that dont exist, as far as a totalitarian central govt is concerned.
Right, Natural right presumes that there is a higher power than governments run by men. So those that don't believe in such a higher power, i.e., despots who have no fear of a God, naturally don't think that Natural rights exist.

Those who don't believe in a God think of mankind as a glorified animal, and not a separate species made in the image of God.

To drive home the point, what do we do to animals? We lock them in zoos, use them as beasts of burden, and kill and eat them. So those who think we are glorified animals will treat their fellow man in like fashion.
 
Its rights that dont exist, as far as a totalitarian central govt is concerned.
Right, Natural right presumes that there is a higher power than governments run by men. So those that don't believe in such a higher power, i.e., despots who have no fear of a God, naturally don't think that Natural rights exist.

Those who don't believe in a God think of mankind as a glorified animal, and not a separate species made in the image of God.

To drive home the point, what do we do to animals? We lock them in zoos, use them as beasts of burden, and kill and eat them. So those who think we are glorified animals will treat their fellow man in like fashion.
Natural rights and religion are not mutually exclusive.
I dont believe in your god but i believe in natural rights.
 
from HR1

21083(d)(2)(A)) is amended by striking “Each State” and inserting “Except as provided in subsection (b)(5), each State”.

Unbelievable
 
Its rights that dont exist, as far as a totalitarian central govt is concerned.
Right, Natural right presumes that there is a higher power than governments run by men. So those that don't believe in such a higher power, i.e., despots who have no fear of a God, naturally don't think that Natural rights exist.

Those who don't believe in a God think of mankind as a glorified animal, and not a separate species made in the image of God.

To drive home the point, what do we do to animals? We lock them in zoos, use them as beasts of burden, and kill and eat them. So those who think we are glorified animals will treat their fellow man in like fashion.
Pelosi is the beast, animal farm.
 
When the US was formed, the Founders claimed that we had natural rights. And today, all you hear is people claiming that they have rights, or should have rights, but is it the same concept?

The Bill of Rights, for example, was designed to enforce our natural rights from the perspective of the Founding Fathers. Progressives today, refer to them as "negative" rights. The Bill of Rights were these negative rights which hand cuffed the government in a variety of ways telling it what it could not do to you., the private citizen. Conversely, FDR proposed a long list of natural rights that Progressives refer to as "positive" rights. These are a long list of rights that proclaim all the wonderful things government will do for you that you really deserve.

But notice the psychology of terms. One is "negative" and the other "positive". It is the Freudian slight of hand that suggests one is superior to the other, and perhaps the other should be done away with altogether.

Those who favor positive rights have the presumption that those in government who promote natural rights are good, and everyone else that disagrees or points to problems that arise from positive rights are all bad. In fact, those promoting positive rights want some of our negative rights removed from law. For example, Progressives have for a long time wanted the Second Amendment to be removed from the Bill of Rights, and increasingly more even want the First Amendment repealed as well since most no longer think freedom of speech is doable.

So who is right? Were the Founding Fathers right to focus on restricting the powers that be to help keep us free, or were the Progressives right? Should we not fear the corrupting power of the powers that be and instead focus on giving them more power over us?

That to me is really the dividing line.
Why live in a country you hate?
 
Its rights that dont exist, as far as a totalitarian central govt is concerned.
Right, Natural right presumes that there is a higher power than governments run by men. So those that don't believe in such a higher power, i.e., despots who have no fear of a God, naturally don't think that Natural rights exist.

Those who don't believe in a God think of mankind as a glorified animal, and not a separate species made in the image of God.

To drive home the point, what do we do to animals? We lock them in zoos, use them as beasts of burden, and kill and eat them. So those who think we are glorified animals will treat their fellow man in like fashion.
Fuck off you stupid shit. Do you really believe that God has ordained you the natural right to bear arms? How the hell does that make sense/
 
I've never heard the term "negative rights" before, so I looked it up.

I've also never heard of anyone wanting the First Amendment removed from the Bill of Rights, so I"m calling bullshit on that.

If I understand it correctly, the term negative and positive are used in these contexts it's not associated with "good" or "bad" assessments of those rights.

Negative rights usually imply "freedom from" something. A right that exists unless someone or some group attempts to negate it. A negative right is the right to do or not do something, free of interference. A positive right, is one that requires another to give it - whether a person or a state. One example I found gave the right to vote as an example of a positive right. It's a citizens right that the government is legally obliged to provide. And some rights, such as the right to life are both positive and negative rights.


So...FDR's Four Freedoms ... 1 and 2 would be negative rights...3 and 4....both positive and negative?
1. Freedom of Speech
2. Freedom of Worship
3. Freedom from Want
4. Freedom from Fear
 

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