What has an illegal immigrant done to deprive you of something?

[usmbguest5318]

For me the answer is "not a damn thing." D.C. has a ton of immigrants from all over the world. So do the other places where I spend a fair amount of time. I've not lost a job to an illegal immigrant. None of them have come traipsing through the neighborhood. No lost benefits, no longer lines anywhere, and I don't see that my taxes have gone up so as I'd notice because of them.

Well, for me personally one was driving without insurance while being in this country illegally and ran into the back of my car injuring my two daughters. He then tried to bribe me not to call the police to report the accident. I made sure he did not run away and the police arrested him for driving without a drivers licence, and no insurance.

Years later my youngest daughter was RAPED by one. So if he had not been here it would not have happened so take your bleeding heart and you know where you can put it!

TY for your reply.

 

[sealybobo]

Not much is broken around heanh. Them Mexican raping home invaders got 18 years plus.

Lucky they ain't strung up. That's law for you

Please. Liberals hate this and THAT. Liberals are haters all day long. They hate sexism and superstition or wherever.They presume they are above all that. I have seen their goofy ass neurotic rich white elitist selves. They don't know what they are defending until it comes down to reality. Then it's all tooth and fangs.

I've told people conservatives love flooding the market with cheap labor. It's why I hope trump really does run illegals out and stop taking in so many muslims

Let me see, Illegals have put bullets in my house frighten me with threats and made me afraid to walk or cycle outside my house in my own culture.In my own neighborhoodI have Mexican anchor babies shouting out to ME asking "What am I doing in THEIR neighborhood"? The one they just came to? Racism my ass. I am so tired of that crap. Illegal have hurt me, and then some.I want that recognized, illegals aren't the poor little victims liberals are making them out to be. Not at all.

Do you see us losing sleep when an illegal gets deported? Maybe on NPR but not in real life.

My guess is that the real people who want illegals are the employers who hire them. Those aren't liberals

I'm thinking you have this all a bit backward in grand Liberal fashion.
I'd bet there are a number of Righties hiring illegals who would probably fight to keep them around...such as small mom and pop construction companies, ranchers and the like but the number of these companies and owners are like a nat on an elephants ass when compared to the number of Liberals and others of recent illegal descent who would take a bullet in order to keep more illegals flooding in.

Bullshit. You listen to too much NPR.

I've heard trumps been deporting a lot lately. Do you see us starting threads crying about it?

This is another wedge issue they use to divide us. Like you all I care about is my family. That means I care about the American family. Not Europe, Canada Mexico. You need to realize we're on the same team and you're arguing with me even when I agree with you. Now that's a partisan

"My guess is that the real people who want illegals are the employers who hire them. Those aren't liberals"
I've have never once tuned in to NPR...haha
You implied that Conservatives want to keep illegals here more so than Liberals and that is simply not at all the truth. Not sure how you see that as an agreement?

This was what us liberals were saying in 2006. Back when McCain and Republicans were telling us illegals were just here doing jobs Americans won't do. We all know now that's not true. They were/are doing jobs we will do if we are paid a fair wage. Republicans argued why pay an American $10 when we can get illegals do to that menial work for $8. Don't tell me that wasn't the conservative argument before Trump. They loved cheap walmart goods and cheap immigrant labor. USMB has archives I can go easily find and prove Republicans have basically flip flopped on this issue. Trump was smart to jump on free trade. Republicans aren't anti free trade and Democrats basically got on board with free trade when Bill signed NAFTA.

Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)

 

[sealybobo]

For me the answer is "not a damn thing." D.C. has a ton of immigrants from all over the world. So do the other places where I spend a fair amount of time. I've not lost a job to an illegal immigrant. None of them have come traipsing through the neighborhood. No lost benefits, no longer lines anywhere, and I don't see that my taxes have gone up so as I'd notice because of them.

Do a little math. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says there are 7.6 million unemployed Americans right now. Another 1.5 million Americans are no longer counted because they've become "long term" or "discouraged" unemployed workers. And although various groups have different ways of measuring it, most agree that at least another five to ten million Americans are either working part-time when they want to work full-time, or are "underemployed," doing jobs below their level of training, education, or experience. That's between eight and twenty million un- and under-employed Americans, many unable to find above-poverty-level work.

At the same time, there are between seven and fifteen million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool.

If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

Between the Reagan years - when there were only around 1 to 2 million illegal aliens in our workforce - and today, we've gone from about 25 percent of our private workforce being unionized to around seven percent. Much of this is the direct result - as César Chávez predicted - of illegal immigrants competing directly with unionized and legal labor. Although it's most obvious in the construction trades over the past 30 years, it's hit all sectors of our economy.

 

[sealybobo]

For me the answer is "not a damn thing." D.C. has a ton of immigrants from all over the world. So do the other places where I spend a fair amount of time. I've not lost a job to an illegal immigrant. None of them have come traipsing through the neighborhood. No lost benefits, no longer lines anywhere, and I don't see that my taxes have gone up so as I'd notice because of them.

What do you do for a living? You never introduced yourself so we don't know anything about you. It's very important in understanding why you would defend people being here illegally? Tell us how it benefits us? It may benefit you because you want a cheap landscaper or pool boy or maid but it hurts the country as a whole.

Democratic Party strategist Ann Lewis just sent out a mass email on behalf of former Wal-Mart Board of Directors member and now US Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. In it, Lewis noted that Clinton suggests we should have: "An earned path to citizenship for those already here working hard, paying taxes, respecting the law, and willing to meet a high bar for becoming a citizen." Sounds nice. The same day, on his radio program, Rush Limbaugh told a woman whose husband is an illegal immigrant that she had nothing to worry about with regard to deportation of him or their children because all he'd have to do - under the new law under consideration - is pay a small fine and learn English.

The current Directors of Wal-Mart are smiling.

Meanwhile, the millions of American citizens who came to this nation as legal immigrants, who waited in line for years, who did the hard work to become citizens, are feeling insulted, humiliated, and conned.

Shouldn't we be compassionate? Of course.

But there is nothing compassionate about driving down the wages of any nation's middle class. It's the most cynical, self-serving, greedy, and sociopathic behavior you'll see from our "conservatives."

 

[sealybobo]

There is nothing compassionate about being the national enabler of a dysfunctional oligarchy like Mexico. An illegal workforce in the US sending an estimated $17 billion to Mexico every year - second only in national income to that country's oil revenues - supports an antidemocratic, anti-worker, hyperconservative administration there that gleefully ships out of that nation the "troublesome" Mexican citizens - those lowest on the economic food-chain and thus most likely to present "labor unrest" - to the USA. Mexico (and other "sending nations") need not deal with their own social and economic problems so long as we're willing to solve them for them - at the expense of our middle class. Democracy in Central and South America be damned - there are profits to be made for Wal-Mart!

 

[sealybobo]

But if illegal immigrants won't pick our produce or bus our tables won't our prices go up? (The most recent mass-emailed conservative variation of this argument, targeting paranoid middle-class Americans says: "Do you want to pay an extra $10,000 for your next house?") The answer is simple: Yes.

But wages would also go up, and even faster than housing or food prices. And CEO salaries, and corporate profits, might moderate back to the levels they were during the "golden age of the American middle class" between the 1940s and Reagan's declaration of war on the middle class in the 1980s.

We saw exactly this scenario played out in the US fifty years ago, when unions helped regulate entry into the workforce, 35 percent of American workers had a union job, and 70 percent of Americans could raise a family on a single, 40-hour-week paycheck. All working Americans would gladly pay a bit more for their food if their paychecks were both significantly higher and more secure.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

That really is the crux of the problem so try and understand what I am about to say, whose best interests are being served by allowing/even encouraging the illegals to come in? all the folks who are against those things.
And the other side is retaliating by bending over backwards to make it a national immigration nightmare.

 

[sealybobo]

It's frankly astonishing to hear "progressives" reciting corporatist/racist/conservative talking points, recycled through "conservative Democratic" politicians trying to pander to the relatively small percentage of recently-legal (mostly through recent amnesties or birth) immigrants who are trying to get their relatives into this country by means of Bush's proposed guest worker program or the many variations thereof being proposed.

Every nation has an obligation to limit immigration to a number that will not dilute its workforce, but will maintain a stable middle class - if it wants to have a stable democracy. This has nothing to do with race, national origin, or language (visit Switzerland with it's ethnic- and language-dived areas!), and everything to do with economics.

 

[sealybobo]

If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

That really is the crux of the problem so try and understand what I am about to say, whose best interests are being served by allowing/even encouraging the illegals to come in? all the folks who are against those things.
And the other side is retaliating by bending over backwards to make it a national immigration nightmare.

Without a middle class, any democracy is doomed. And without labor having - through control of labor availability - power in relative balance to capital/management, no middle class can emerge. America's early labor leaders did not die to increase the labor pool for the Robber Barons or the Walton family - they died fighting to give control of it to the workers of their era and in the hopes that we would continue to hold it - and infect other nations with the same idea of democracy and a stable middle class.

The simple way to do this today is to require that all non-refugee immigrants go through the same process to become American citizens or legal workers in this country (no amnesties, no "guest workers," no "legalizations") regardless of how they got here; to confront employers who hire illegals with draconian financial and criminal penalties; and to affirm that while health care (and the right to provide humanitarian care to all humans) is an absolute right for all people within our boundaries regardless of status, a paycheck, education, or subsidy is not.

The Republican (and Democratic) corporatists who want a cheap labor force, and the Republican (and Democratic) racists who want to build a fence and punish humanitarian aid workers, are equally corrupt and anti-progressive. As long as employers are willing and able (without severe penalties) to hire illegal workers, people will risk life and limb to grab at the America Dream. When we stop hiring and paying them, most will leave of their own volition over a few years, and the remaining few who are committed to the US will obtain citizenship through normal channels.

This is, after all, the middle-class "American Dream." And how much better this hemisphere would be if Central and South Americans were motivated to stay in their own nations (because no employer in the US would dare hire them) and fight there for a Mexican Dream and a Salvadoran Dream and a Guatemalan Dream (and so on).

This is the historic Progressive vision for all of the Americas...

 

[sealybobo]

If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

That really is the crux of the problem so try and understand what I am about to say, whose best interests are being served by allowing/even encouraging the illegals to come in? all the folks who are against those things.
And the other side is retaliating by bending over backwards to make it a national immigration nightmare.

As long as employers are willing and able (without severe penalties) to hire illegal workers, people will risk life and limb to grab at the America Dream. When we stop hiring and paying them, most will leave of their own volition over a few years, and the remaining few who are committed to the US will obtain citizenship through normal channels.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

That really is the crux of the problem so try and understand what I am about to say, whose best interests are being served by allowing/even encouraging the illegals to come in? all the folks who are against those things.
And the other side is retaliating by bending over backwards to make it a national immigration nightmare.

Without a middle class, any democracy is doomed. And without labor having - through control of labor availability - power in relative balance to capital/management, no middle class can emerge. America's early labor leaders did not die to increase the labor pool for the Robber Barons or the Walton family - they died fighting to give control of it to the workers of their era and in the hopes that we would continue to hold it - and infect other nations with the same idea of democracy and a stable middle class.

The simple way to do this today is to require that all non-refugee immigrants go through the same process to become American citizens or legal workers in this country (no amnesties, no "guest workers," no "legalizations") regardless of how they got here; to confront employers who hire illegals with draconian financial and criminal penalties; and to affirm that while health care (and the right to provide humanitarian care to all humans) is an absolute right for all people within our boundaries regardless of status, a paycheck, education, or subsidy is not.

The Republican (and Democratic) corporatists who want a cheap labor force, and the Republican (and Democratic) racists who want to build a fence and punish humanitarian aid workers, are equally corrupt and anti-progressive. As long as employers are willing and able (without severe penalties) to hire illegal workers, people will risk life and limb to grab at the America Dream. When we stop hiring and paying them, most will leave of their own volition over a few years, and the remaining few who are committed to the US will obtain citizenship through normal channels.

This is, after all, the middle-class "American Dream." And how much better this hemisphere would be if Central and South Americans were motivated to stay in their own nations (because no employer in the US would dare hire them) and fight there for a Mexican Dream and a Salvadoran Dream and a Guatemalan Dream (and so on).

This is the historic Progressive vision for all of the Americas...

I agree with all of that except where it you claim it is somehow racist to build a fence on your own property...terms like "racist" are proof of a failed education system and in my opinion grounds for demanding a refund of tuition for college grads who find it necessary to use such terms like they have any kind of academic value.

 

[kwc57]

Several times I've had to take me elderly mother to the ER late at night or on the weekend when her doctors were not available. Had there not been a waiting room full of illegal aliens using the ER as a clinic, she could have been seen and received the care she needed much quicker.

 

[rhodescholar]

Lots on conflicting data out there apparently. Tech billionaires like Democrats more than Republicans. Here’s why.

Because the dems are more likely as a party to support the open borders / lunatic H1B jobs theft program than the republican corporate wing, whose days might very well be numbered.

They know that if the true conservative base unifies in the US, taking in conservative dems and excising the cancerous corporate wing of the republican party, the days of their massive profits financed with illegals and H1Bs will end. They know the dems are much more likely to fight for these agendas/programs for longer.

 

[rhodescholar]

This was what us liberals were saying in 2006. Back when McCain and Republicans were telling us illegals were just here doing jobs Americans won't do. We all know now that's not true. They were/are doing jobs we will do if we are paid a fair wage. Republicans argued why pay an American $10 when we can get illegals do to that menial work for $8. Don't tell me that wasn't the conservative argument before Trump. They loved cheap walmart goods and cheap immigrant labor. USMB has archives I can go easily find and prove Republicans have basically flip flopped on this issue. Trump was smart to jump on free trade. Republicans aren't anti free trade and Democrats basically got on board with free trade when Bill signed NAFTA.

Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)

Do not confuse the corporate wing of the republican party, whose sole mission is to defend corporate america, with the True Conservatives like me who despise corporate america. While the republican party establishment tries to pretend both groups can fit under one tent, that is utterly false and I as a True Conservative consider the corporate wing to be as much of an enemy as the national democratic party.

 

[P@triot]

This was what us liberals were saying in 2006.

You were never saying that. Your side of the aisle was never saying that. You are a typical hatriot pathological liar.

Back when McCain and Republicans were telling us illegals were just here doing jobs Americans won't do.

Except that conservatives were never saying that. Left-wing hatriots were saying that. Don't point to McCain - he's as RINO as it gets. Especially after losing his run for the presidency. He's been butt-hurt ever since and continues to slide further and further left.

We all know now that's not true.

That's right - we do. And yet you left-wing hatriots continue to push that false narrative.
They were/are doing jobs we will do if we are paid a fair wage.[/QUOTE]
There has never been an "unfair" wage in the history of the free market. You want to know why? Because both parties mutually entered into the agreement of their own free will. The owner was willing to give up that money for that labor, the employee was willing to accept that money in exchange to perform that labor.
Don't tell me that wasn't the conservative argument before Trump.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't the argument before Trump. Ever. Like a typical left-wing hatriot pathological liar - you're attempting to rewrite history. It's all you people ever do.

They loved cheap walmart goods and cheap immigrant labor.

Inexpensive Walmart goods does not require illegal aliens, dumb-ass. Most of the good found at Walmart are manufactured overseas (because ignorant Dumbocrat economic policy made it too expensive to manufacture here in the U.S.).

USMB has archives I can go easily find and prove Republicans have basically flip flopped on this issue.

Do it. I dare you. The fact that you didn't proves you can't. Technology is a bitch for you patriots. You used to have quite a bit of success at rewriting history and passing off your propaganda. But now that everything is out there on the internet - you're fucked.

Trump was smart to jump on free trade. Republicans aren't anti free trade and Democrats basically got on board with free trade when Bill signed NAFTA.

Here is the bottom line - Dumbocrats know that they cannot win clean elections. After the Reagan revolution - they were dead in the water. So they decided to support citizens among the poorest nation in the world breaking our laws. Then they promised those people endless goodies - healthcare, education, housing, food, transportation, etc. And they did all of that in the hopes of making an 11 million to 20 million allegiance so that when they granted those people amnesty, they could start winning elections again.

 

[rhodescholar]

But if illegal immigrants won't pick our produce or bus our tables won't our prices go up? (The most recent mass-emailed conservative variation of this argument, targeting paranoid middle-class Americans says: "Do you want to pay an extra $10,000 for your next house?") The answer is simple: Yes.

But wages would also go up, and even faster than housing or food prices. And CEO salaries, and corporate profits, might moderate back to the levels they were during the "golden age of the American middle class" between the 1940s and Reagan's declaration of war on the middle class in the 1980s.

We saw exactly this scenario played out in the US fifty years ago, when unions helped regulate entry into the workforce, 35 percent of American workers had a union job, and 70 percent of Americans could raise a family on a single, 40-hour-week paycheck. All working Americans would gladly pay a bit more for their food if their paychecks were both significantly higher and more secure.

Best post on this forum in the last year.

 

[sealybobo]

If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

That really is the crux of the problem so try and understand what I am about to say, whose best interests are being served by allowing/even encouraging the illegals to come in? all the folks who are against those things.
And the other side is retaliating by bending over backwards to make it a national immigration nightmare.

Without a middle class, any democracy is doomed. And without labor having - through control of labor availability - power in relative balance to capital/management, no middle class can emerge. America's early labor leaders did not die to increase the labor pool for the Robber Barons or the Walton family - they died fighting to give control of it to the workers of their era and in the hopes that we would continue to hold it - and infect other nations with the same idea of democracy and a stable middle class.

The simple way to do this today is to require that all non-refugee immigrants go through the same process to become American citizens or legal workers in this country (no amnesties, no "guest workers," no "legalizations") regardless of how they got here; to confront employers who hire illegals with draconian financial and criminal penalties; and to affirm that while health care (and the right to provide humanitarian care to all humans) is an absolute right for all people within our boundaries regardless of status, a paycheck, education, or subsidy is not.

The Republican (and Democratic) corporatists who want a cheap labor force, and the Republican (and Democratic) racists who want to build a fence and punish humanitarian aid workers, are equally corrupt and anti-progressive. As long as employers are willing and able (without severe penalties) to hire illegal workers, people will risk life and limb to grab at the America Dream. When we stop hiring and paying them, most will leave of their own volition over a few years, and the remaining few who are committed to the US will obtain citizenship through normal channels.

This is, after all, the middle-class "American Dream." And how much better this hemisphere would be if Central and South Americans were motivated to stay in their own nations (because no employer in the US would dare hire them) and fight there for a Mexican Dream and a Salvadoran Dream and a Guatemalan Dream (and so on).

This is the historic Progressive vision for all of the Americas...

I agree with all of that except where it you claim it is somehow racist to build a fence on your own property...terms like "racist" are proof of a failed education system and in my opinion grounds for demanding a refund of tuition for college grads who find it necessary to use such terms like they have any kind of academic value.

Ok, but lets not get caught up on that one word. I get what Thom is saying but I don't want to get side tracked on calling you guys racists. I admit it's not racist at all to want to protect your middle class. I think Thom was just trying to point out your party is split. There's the "go back where you came from" Republicans vs. the Corporate ones who like the cheap labor.

And don't tell me they aren't racist because my greek father came here from Greece and got a job at Ford. The white guys would look at him when they heard the accent and say, "why don't you go back from where you came from, you foreigners are coming here and taking all our jobs". My dad came here legally. The white trash that said that to him were not Native Americans. So if that's not racist, bigoted, prejudice, please tell me what it is? Maybe racist wasn't the right word for Thom to have used. What do you call ignorant white Americans like the ones who said that to my dad? Oh and by the way my brother is a vp of a fortune 500 company. Not bad for an immigrants son. Chances are none of those ignorant white factory rats sons are VP's today. They are probably blue collar like their fathers. Imagine where this country would be if not for smart hard working immigrants. We'd have white goobers running fortune 500 companies. LOL..

We are being bamboozled. I'm begging you guys to stop believing them when they say A LOT of liberals give a rats ass about illegals and sanctuary cities. FINE! If they want to hide in a church so be it. We aren't going to go hunting for illegals. But when we find them on a traffic stop, or when they go to apply for an ID, or when their employer or neighbor turns them in, then they go back where they came from. Obama sent a lot of illegals home. Did you see any of us protest? No you did not.

 

[sealybobo]

This was what us liberals were saying in 2006.

You were never saying that. Your side of the aisle was never saying that. You are a typical hatriot pathological liar.

Back when McCain and Republicans were telling us illegals were just here doing jobs Americans won't do.

Except that conservatives were never saying that. Left-wing hatriots were saying that. Don't point to McCain - he's as RINO as it gets. Especially after losing his run for the presidency. He's been butt-hurt ever since and continues to slide further and further left.

We all know now that's not true.

That's right - we do. And yet you left-wing hatriots continue to push that false narrative.
They were/are doing jobs we will do if we are paid a fair wage.

There has never been an "unfair" wage in the history of the free market. You want to know why? Because both parties mutually entered into the agreement of their own free will. The owner was willing to give up that money for that labor, the employee was willing to accept that money in exchange to perform that labor.
Don't tell me that wasn't the conservative argument before Trump.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't the argument before Trump. Ever. Like a typical left-wing hatriot pathological liar - you're attempting to rewrite history. It's all you people ever do.

They loved cheap walmart goods and cheap immigrant labor.

Inexpensive Walmart goods does not require illegal aliens, dumb-ass. Most of the good found at Walmart are manufactured overseas (because ignorant Dumbocrat economic policy made it too expensive to manufacture here in the U.S.).

USMB has archives I can go easily find and prove Republicans have basically flip flopped on this issue.

Do it. I dare you. The fact that you didn't proves you can't. Technology is a bitch for you patriots. You used to have quite a bit of success at rewriting history and passing off your propaganda. But now that everything is out there on the internet - you're fucked.

Trump was smart to jump on free trade. Republicans aren't anti free trade and Democrats basically got on board with free trade when Bill signed NAFTA.

\
Here is the bottom line - Dumbocrats know that they cannot win clean elections. After the Reagan revolution - they were dead in the water. So they decided to support citizens among the poorest nation in the world breaking our laws. Then they promised those people endless goodies - healthcare, education, housing, food, transportation, etc. And they did all of that in the hopes of making an 11 million to 20 million allegiance so that when they granted those people amnesty, they could start winning elections again.[/QUOTE]

Fuck you liar. I just posted an article from 2006. But back in 2006 if I mentioned Thom hartmann you sorry bush lovers mocked us and you said the illegals were making things cheap and doing jobs Americans wouldn't do. You don't even realize you have flip flopped on the issue. That proves you are brainwashed. You don't even realize how much your position has changed. Until Trump says it you don't believe it. Then Trump says it and now it's true. What sheep.

I just showed you where us liberals stood in 2006. Now don't confuse Democrats with us liberals because us liberals agree that the Democats are just corporate Democrats now.

Bernie Sanders went on Thom Hartmann every Friday. Brunch with Bernie. He and Thom were saying this stuff over 10 years ago. Maybe you are a progressive liberal and don't even realize it. Trump is.

 

[sealybobo]

This was what us liberals were saying in 2006.

You were never saying that. Your side of the aisle was never saying that. You are a typical hatriot pathological liar.

Back when McCain and Republicans were telling us illegals were just here doing jobs Americans won't do.

Except that conservatives were never saying that. Left-wing hatriots were saying that. Don't point to McCain - he's as RINO as it gets. Especially after losing his run for the presidency. He's been butt-hurt ever since and continues to slide further and further left.

We all know now that's not true.

That's right - we do. And yet you left-wing hatriots continue to push that false narrative.
They were/are doing jobs we will do if we are paid a fair wage.

There has never been an "unfair" wage in the history of the free market. You want to know why? Because both parties mutually entered into the agreement of their own free will. The owner was willing to give up that money for that labor, the employee was willing to accept that money in exchange to perform that labor.
Don't tell me that wasn't the conservative argument before Trump.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't the argument before Trump. Ever. Like a typical left-wing hatriot pathological liar - you're attempting to rewrite history. It's all you people ever do.

They loved cheap walmart goods and cheap immigrant labor.

Inexpensive Walmart goods does not require illegal aliens, dumb-ass. Most of the good found at Walmart are manufactured overseas (because ignorant Dumbocrat economic policy made it too expensive to manufacture here in the U.S.).

USMB has archives I can go easily find and prove Republicans have basically flip flopped on this issue.

Do it. I dare you. The fact that you didn't proves you can't. Technology is a bitch for you patriots. You used to have quite a bit of success at rewriting history and passing off your propaganda. But now that everything is out there on the internet - you're fucked.

Trump was smart to jump on free trade. Republicans aren't anti free trade and Democrats basically got on board with free trade when Bill signed NAFTA.

\
Here is the bottom line - Dumbocrats know that they cannot win clean elections. After the Reagan revolution - they were dead in the water. So they decided to support citizens among the poorest nation in the world breaking our laws. Then they promised those people endless goodies - healthcare, education, housing, food, transportation, etc. And they did all of that in the hopes of making an 11 million to 20 million allegiance so that when they granted those people amnesty, they could start winning elections again.[/QUOTE]

I just showed you our position on illegals in 2006. Can you show me one article from one conservative back before 2008 that shows your position today is the same as it was back then? No you can not.

I'll do it for you stupid

 

[OldLady]

I'm assuming if people had personal experiences they would have responded, as you did, or not have participated in the thread at all. It's a good thing, I think, that few of us, anyway, have been personally affected by mayhem or violence by illegal immigrants. The less the better, for our sakes, no one else's.

I disagree with you on the accuracy of posters posting their personal experience. I almost passed posting anything of personal knowledge on the matter. Too many assholes on here that sling shit if you give them that egde.

I'm always glad to get a word to the wise.
BrokeLoser seems to have bailed on me. So maybe the OP's motive is as transparent as I originally thought. Just maybe, the illegal immigrant problem is being amplified a bit? Not the great mayhem and threat to personal safety all over the country that is being blasted from the rooftops. I don't mean you, RodIshi, you've had direct experience, but for the rest in our bubbles just hearing all the news, maybe the OP just wants us to think about the illegal immigrant situation without a huge dose of hype and hate mixed in.

BINGO....there you have it and you bit hook line and sinker. And you knew it all along.
The motive was to establish hearsay in that the invasion of illegals and the negativity that comes with it isn't quite the magnitude it's played up to be which is absolute hands down BULLSHIT!
Visit any region where illegals are prevalent and you will find filth, thievery, domestic violence, unlicensed, uninsured drivers, drugs and alcohol, neglected and trashed property, graffiti, unparented children, animal abuse....the list goes on and on.
My primary residence is in Southern California in the mecca for illegals...believe me I know the magnitude. When I'm at my ranch in Montana I don't know anything about illegals nor would anyone else in the region.
Like you the OP wants to establish and believe that illegals blend in and cause no harm and that couldn't be further from the truth. Anywhere they're at in numbers there's problems and filth directly related to them...PERIOD!

BINGO....there you have it and you bit hook line and sinker. And you knew it all along.
I didn't "bite" anything, except responding to your bait. There are some posters here who may have direct experience with illegal immigrants, but a lot don't. The majority of Americans probably don't. They just hear stories. People are confusing Illegals with legals, and they are buying negative stereotypes about both. You are viewing areas where migrant workers and immigrants are living and you are assuming they're illegal, when you seem to mean "poor" more than illegal. I'll semi take your word for it though; after years of working with drug addicts, I'm pretty good at spotting one, whether they admit it or not.