What ever happened to the "separation" of church and state?

[Voyageuse]

This nation was established with two primary concepts of governance: first that there could be no legitimate governance without representation, and second that there must be a separation of church and state in government. We have apparently lost both.

Religious beliefs or tenets are not laws or legislation to be dictated to fellow citizens. Religions beliefs are personal ideological tenets to be practiced privately and not mandated to nonbelievers. As a nonbeliever, I do not want to hear about abortion, god, prayer, death penalty, etal. However, if you were against abortion, you should negotiate to adopt an unwanted child, not demand the child be born (into an uncertain environment). But don't deny someone the right to choose whether to have an abortion or not.

I am not religious, and I have never been religious. I do not feel quilty about it, nor will I allow any one to make me feel quilty about it. I am just fine with my destiny, and I am confident that I will live on in the future and with a purpose as will all of us. It is because you are so uncertain of your future and your purpose that you need to believe that there is a reason or purpose to life and beyond. It is because you lack faith that you cling to such archaic and even pretentious concepts. You see, I don't simply believe or have faith in life everlasting. In my soul and in my heart I know in life everlasting.

 

[ding]

This nation was established with two primary concepts of governance: first that there could be no legitimate governance without representation, and second that there must be a separation of church and state in government. We have apparently lost both.

Religious beliefs or tenets are not laws or legislation to be dictated to fellow citizens. Religions beliefs are personal ideological tenets to be practiced privately and not mandated to nonbelievers. As a nonbeliever, I do not want to hear about abortion, god, prayer, death penalty, etal. However, if you were against abortion, you should negotiate to adopt an unwanted child, not demand the child be born (into an uncertain environment). But don't deny someone the right to choose whether to have an abortion or not.

I am not religious, and I have never been religious. I do not feel quilty about it, nor will I allow any one to make me feel quilty about it. I am just fine with my destiny, and I am confident that I will live on in the future and with a purpose as will all of us. It is because you are so uncertain of your future and your purpose that you need to believe that there is a reason or purpose to life and beyond. It is because you lack faith that you cling to such archaic and even pretentious concepts. You see, I don't simply believe or have faith in life everlasting. In my soul and in my heart I know in life everlasting.

The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion to keep them from interfering with state established religions of which half of the states had at the time the Constitution was ratified. So it seems to me you don't understand the 1st Amendment at all.

 

[ding]

This nation was established with two primary concepts of governance: first that there could be no legitimate governance without representation, and second that there must be a separation of church and state in government. We have apparently lost both.

Religious beliefs or tenets are not laws or legislation to be dictated to fellow citizens. Religions beliefs are personal ideological tenets to be practiced privately and not mandated to nonbelievers. As a nonbeliever, I do not want to hear about abortion, god, prayer, death penalty, etal. However, if you were against abortion, you should negotiate to adopt an unwanted child, not demand the child be born (into an uncertain environment). But don't deny someone the right to choose whether to have an abortion or not.

I am not religious, and I have never been religious. I do not feel quilty about it, nor will I allow any one to make me feel quilty about it. I am just fine with my destiny, and I am confident that I will live on in the future and with a purpose as will all of us. It is because you are so uncertain of your future and your purpose that you need to believe that there is a reason or purpose to life and beyond. It is because you lack faith that you cling to such archaic and even pretentious concepts. You see, I don't simply believe or have faith in life everlasting. In my soul and in my heart I know in life everlasting.

The establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from establishing a national religion to keep them from interfering with state established religions of which half of the states had at the time the Constitution was ratified. So it seems to me you don't understand the 1st Amendment at all.

Abortion is not a religious issue. Abortion is a human rights issue. At conception a new, genetically distinct human being comes into existence. One that has never existed before and will never exist again. How do we know this? DNA. This is no longer a matter of taste or opinion or a metaphysical contention. This is based on empirical scientific evidence.

 

[Michelle420]

I don't know what happened I think it changed in the 90's

 

[RWNJ]

This nation was established with two primary concepts of governance: first that there could be no legitimate governance without representation, and second that there must be a separation of church and state in government. We have apparently lost both.

Religious beliefs or tenets are not laws or legislation to be dictated to fellow citizens. Religions beliefs are personal ideological tenets to be practiced privately and not mandated to nonbelievers. As a nonbeliever, I do not want to hear about abortion, god, prayer, death penalty, etal. However, if you were against abortion, you should negotiate to adopt an unwanted child, not demand the child be born (into an uncertain environment). But don't deny someone the right to choose whether to have an abortion or not.

I am not religious, and I have never been religious. I do not feel quilty about it, nor will I allow any one to make me feel quilty about it. I am just fine with my destiny, and I am confident that I will live on in the future and with a purpose as will all of us. It is because you are so uncertain of your future and your purpose that you need to believe that there is a reason or purpose to life and beyond. It is because you lack faith that you cling to such archaic and even pretentious concepts. You see, I don't simply believe or have faith in life everlasting. In my soul and in my heart I know in life everlasting.

There is no such thing as separation of Church and State in the Constitution. It says that Congress shall make no laws concerning Religion. This was meant to protect religion from the government. Nothing more. Atheists will not be happy until religion completely disappears from the Earth. Well, guess what? Ain't never gonna happen. They are fighting against God. In the end, every one of them will bow and admit that Jesus Christ is Lord.

 

[Ozone]

There are three parts to the 1st Amendment. The first part is about the freedom of religion. The second part is about the freedom of speech and the freedom of the press. The third part is about the freedom to petition the government. They're in that order for a reason. Pay close attention to that second part next time you hear some rabbi talk about the Torah, which Torah, the spoken form or the written form? Religion created government thousands of years ago.

 

[yiostheoy]

This nation was established with two primary concepts of governance: first that there could be no legitimate governance without representation, and second that there must be a separation of church and state in government. We have apparently lost both.

Religious beliefs or tenets are not laws or legislation to be dictated to fellow citizens. Religions beliefs are personal ideological tenets to be practiced privately and not mandated to nonbelievers. As a nonbeliever, I do not want to hear about abortion, god, prayer, death penalty, etal. However, if you were against abortion, you should negotiate to adopt an unwanted child, not demand the child be born (into an uncertain environment). But don't deny someone the right to choose whether to have an abortion or not.

I am not religious, and I have never been religious. I do not feel quilty about it, nor will I allow any one to make me feel quilty about it. I am just fine with my destiny, and I am confident that I will live on in the future and with a purpose as will all of us. It is because you are so uncertain of your future and your purpose that you need to believe that there is a reason or purpose to life and beyond. It is because you lack faith that you cling to such archaic and even pretentious concepts. You see, I don't simply believe or have faith in life everlasting. In my soul and in my heart I know in life everlasting.

There are a lot more than just 2.

First and foremost is (1) election by the voice of the People. This has always applied to the House Of Reps, however it has since then by amendment been added to the Senate as well. The People elect the electors, who elect the POTUS.

Second is (2) separation of powers between the legislature, the administration, and the judiciary.

Third through 30 are the 27 Amendments to the Constitution, with the first 10 known as the Bill Of Rights. These are equally powerful, although the first 10 are viewed as fundamental, such as States' Rights (the 10th).

While the 1st Amendment separates Church and State (Federal), it also ensures freedom of speech, of the press, peaceable assembly, petitioning for redress of grievances.

Last time I checked, all the Amendments are very much in force except the 18th, which was repealed by the 21st.

 

[there4eyeM]

Of course, anyone claiming a religious basis for their laws has to take that as prevailing over human law. The Constitution is merely a reference for them, something they abide by until it becomes inconvenient. No 'right' supersedes their interpretation of 'God' and words they believe come form their 'God'. It is easy, then, to flip from individual 'rights', such as a woman has over her reproduction, and interject a belief one has converted into an imperative. It shows a lack of confidence in their 'God' and the ability of 'God' to enforce what is believed.

 

[ding]

Of course, anyone claiming a religious basis for their laws has to take that as prevailing over human law....

You mean like the Founding fathers did? They believed that rights were granted to us for no other reason than we are God's creatures.

 

[Mudda]

Of course, anyone claiming a religious basis for their laws has to take that as prevailing over human law....

You mean like the Founding fathers did? They believed that rights were granted to us for no other reason than we are God's creatures.

 

[ding]

Of course, anyone claiming a religious basis for their laws has to take that as prevailing over human law....

You mean like the Founding fathers did? They believed that rights were granted to us for no other reason than we are God's creatures.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness....

 

[Mudda]

Of course, anyone claiming a religious basis for their laws has to take that as prevailing over human law....

You mean like the Founding fathers did? They believed that rights were granted to us for no other reason than we are God's creatures.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness....

 

[ding]

Of course, anyone claiming a religious basis for their laws has to take that as prevailing over human law....

You mean like the Founding fathers did? They believed that rights were granted to us for no other reason than we are God's creatures.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness....

Yep, the founding fathers of freedom and liberty were some crazy dudes, all right.

 

[Mudda]

Of course, anyone claiming a religious basis for their laws has to take that as prevailing over human law....

You mean like the Founding fathers did? They believed that rights were granted to us for no other reason than we are God's creatures.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness....

Yep, the founding fathers of freedom and liberty were some crazy dudes, all right.

They had zero proof of a creator, just like you.

 

[ding]

You mean like the Founding fathers did? They believed that rights were granted to us for no other reason than we are God's creatures.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness....

Yep, the founding fathers of freedom and liberty were some crazy dudes, all right.

They had zero proof of a creator, just like you.

Nope. They had the same proof I have. Creation.

 

[Mudda]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness....

Yep, the founding fathers of freedom and liberty were some crazy dudes, all right.

They had zero proof of a creator, just like you.

Nope. They had the same proof I have. Creation.

So the universe is proof of the god of the bible who cares whether we obey what's in a book or not?

 

[ding]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness....

Yep, the founding fathers of freedom and liberty were some crazy dudes, all right.

They had zero proof of a creator, just like you.

Nope. They had the same proof I have. Creation.

So the universe is proof of the god of the bible who cares whether we obey what's in a book or not?

Now you are skipping steps. You want to jump from proving His existence to proving He cares.

The universe and everything in it and everything that has happened since it started in a hot dense state is proof of His existence. We've been through this before like a dozen times.

 

[Mudda]

Yep, the founding fathers of freedom and liberty were some crazy dudes, all right.

They had zero proof of a creator, just like you.

Nope. They had the same proof I have. Creation.

So the universe is proof of the god of the bible who cares whether we obey what's in a book or not?

Now you are skipping steps. You want to jump from proving His existence to proving He cares.

The universe and everything in it and everything that has happened since it started in a hot dense state is proof of His existence. We've been through this before like a dozen times.

So what's the proof that the god cares whether we obey a book or not?
And also, what's the proof of when the bible quotes the god talking, that's it's really from an invisible being?

 

[there4eyeM]

[/QUOTE]So the universe is proof of the god of the bible who cares whether we obey what's in a book or not? [/QUOTE]

The founders held the opinion that a creator had done certain things. At no time was it stated as an objective fact. Being educated and reasonable people they understood the concepts involved. They knew that proving the existence of a deity was not possible, and imposing one, unjust.

 

[ding]

Yep, the founding fathers of freedom and liberty were some crazy dudes, all right.

They had zero proof of a creator, just like you.

Nope. They had the same proof I have. Creation.

So the universe is proof of the god of the bible who cares whether we obey what's in a book or not?

Now you are skipping steps. You want to jump from proving His existence to proving He cares.

The universe and everything in it and everything that has happened since it started in a hot dense state is proof of His existence. We've been through this before like a dozen times.

So what's the proof that the god cares whether we obey a book or not?
And also, what's the proof of when the bible quotes the god talking, that's it's really from an invisible being?

Who said He did? He gave you free will to choose.