What does "from the river to the sea, Palestine must be free" mean?

[USAF 2023]

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

You are forgetting six words; From the River to the Sea” which includes ALL of Israel which is referred to as Palestine.
Since you believe in “ equality “ tell us please why Abbas stating “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the PLO states Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall

To be fair, Coyote is responding to what the first post asks, which is What Does It Mean To You? Her post says what it means to her, from what she understands of it.

Now, it should only be fair to bring up the origin of that saying and what the PLO meant by it, and what Hamas and Abbas, and others actually mean by it. Does it have the same meaning to them as to the PLO, has the meaning changed since 1964?


So, I would hope that pro Palestinians would read the information below, think about it and tell us if they agree with it, and why. Does it mean to YOU, the same as it meant to the PLO when they coined the phrase :



"Palestine from the river to the sea" was claimed as Palestine by the PLO[65] from its establishment in 1964 until the signing of the Oslo Accords.[78] The PLO claim was originally set on areas, controlled by the State of Israel prior to 1967 War, meaning the combined Coastal Plain, Galilee, Yizrael Valley, Arava Valley and Negev Desert, but excluding West Bank (controlled then by Jordan) and Gaza Strip (occupied between 1959 and 1967 by Egypt). In a slightly different fashion "Palestine from the river to the sea" is still claimed by Hamas,[79] referring to all areas of former Mandatory Palestine.

From the River to the Sea (Arabic: min al-nahr ila al-bahr ) is, and forms part of, a popular political slogan used by Palestinian nationalists. It contains the notion that the land which lies between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea be entirely placed under Arab rule at the cost of the State of Israel, excluding the contested Golan Heights, conquered from Syria in 1967 and unilaterally annexed in 1981.[80] It has been used frequently by Arab leaders[81][82] and is often chanted at anti-Israel demonstrations.[83]

The slogan is versatile with numerous variations including "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,"[84] "Palestine is ours from the river to the sea," "Palestine is Islamic from the river to the sea,"[85] Islamic scholars also claim the Mahdiwill also declare the slogan in the following format: "Jerusalem is Arab Muslim, and Palestine — all of it, from the river to the sea — is Arab Muslim."[86]

Palestinian nationalism - Wikipedia

“ Mandatory Palestine” is all of Israel; nothing to do with “ 67 Borders” that were never recognized

 

[USAF 2023]

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

I have a couple of comments and questions, but I'd like to start with...

What would full autonomy look like? How will we know when it is achieved?

“ Full autonomy” in their world would be ALL of the land including Israel which they would have full control over being the majority

 

[Sixties Fan]

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

You are forgetting six words; From the River to the Sea” which includes ALL of Israel which is referred to as Palestine.
Since you believe in “ equality “ tell us please why Abbas stating “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the PLO states Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall

To be fair, Coyote is responding to what the first post asks, which is What Does It Mean To You? Her post says what it means to her, from what she understands of it.

Now, it should only be fair to bring up the origin of that saying and what the PLO meant by it, and what Hamas and Abbas, and others actually mean by it. Does it have the same meaning to them as to the PLO, has the meaning changed since 1964?


So, I would hope that pro Palestinians would read the information below, think about it and tell us if they agree with it, and why. Does it mean to YOU, the same as it meant to the PLO when they coined the phrase :



"Palestine from the river to the sea" was claimed as Palestine by the PLO[65] from its establishment in 1964 until the signing of the Oslo Accords.[78] The PLO claim was originally set on areas, controlled by the State of Israel prior to 1967 War, meaning the combined Coastal Plain, Galilee, Yizrael Valley, Arava Valley and Negev Desert, but excluding West Bank (controlled then by Jordan) and Gaza Strip (occupied between 1959 and 1967 by Egypt). In a slightly different fashion "Palestine from the river to the sea" is still claimed by Hamas,[79] referring to all areas of former Mandatory Palestine.

From the River to the Sea (Arabic: min al-nahr ila al-bahr ) is, and forms part of, a popular political slogan used by Palestinian nationalists. It contains the notion that the land which lies between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea be entirely placed under Arab rule at the cost of the State of Israel, excluding the contested Golan Heights, conquered from Syria in 1967 and unilaterally annexed in 1981.[80] It has been used frequently by Arab leaders[81][82] and is often chanted at anti-Israel demonstrations.[83]

The slogan is versatile with numerous variations including "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,"[84] "Palestine is ours from the river to the sea," "Palestine is Islamic from the river to the sea,"[85] Islamic scholars also claim the Mahdiwill also declare the slogan in the following format: "Jerusalem is Arab Muslim, and Palestine — all of it, from the river to the sea — is Arab Muslim."[86]

Palestinian nationalism - Wikipedia

“ Mandatory Palestine” is all of Israel; nothing to do with “ 67 Borders” that were never recognized

It is for them to answer what that sentence means to them based on what the PLO meant in 1964, or what it means now.

Let us have a discussion based on those points.

 

[USAF 2023]

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

You are forgetting six words; From the River to the Sea” which includes ALL of Israel which is referred to as Palestine.
Since you believe in “ equality “ tell us please why Abbas stating “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the PLO states Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall

To be fair, Coyote is responding to what the first post asks, which is What Does It Mean To You? Her post says what it means to her, from what she understands of it.

Now, it should only be fair to bring up the origin of that saying and what the PLO meant by it, and what Hamas and Abbas, and others actually mean by it. Does it have the same meaning to them as to the PLO, has the meaning changed since 1964?


So, I would hope that pro Palestinians would read the information below, think about it and tell us if they agree with it, and why. Does it mean to YOU, the same as it meant to the PLO when they coined the phrase :



"Palestine from the river to the sea" was claimed as Palestine by the PLO[65] from its establishment in 1964 until the signing of the Oslo Accords.[78] The PLO claim was originally set on areas, controlled by the State of Israel prior to 1967 War, meaning the combined Coastal Plain, Galilee, Yizrael Valley, Arava Valley and Negev Desert, but excluding West Bank (controlled then by Jordan) and Gaza Strip (occupied between 1959 and 1967 by Egypt). In a slightly different fashion "Palestine from the river to the sea" is still claimed by Hamas,[79] referring to all areas of former Mandatory Palestine.

From the River to the Sea (Arabic: min al-nahr ila al-bahr ) is, and forms part of, a popular political slogan used by Palestinian nationalists. It contains the notion that the land which lies between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea be entirely placed under Arab rule at the cost of the State of Israel, excluding the contested Golan Heights, conquered from Syria in 1967 and unilaterally annexed in 1981.[80] It has been used frequently by Arab leaders[81][82] and is often chanted at anti-Israel demonstrations.[83]

The slogan is versatile with numerous variations including "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,"[84] "Palestine is ours from the river to the sea," "Palestine is Islamic from the river to the sea,"[85] Islamic scholars also claim the Mahdiwill also declare the slogan in the following format: "Jerusalem is Arab Muslim, and Palestine — all of it, from the river to the sea — is Arab Muslim."[86]

Palestinian nationalism - Wikipedia

“ Mandatory Palestine” is all of Israel; nothing to do with “ 67 Borders” that were never recognized

It is for them to answer what that sentence means to them based on what the PLO meant in 1964, or what it means now.

Let us have a discussion based on those points.

“ From the River to the Sea” says it all. What else is there to say?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

You are forgetting six words; From the River to the Sea” which includes ALL of Israel which is referred to as Palestine.
Since you believe in “ equality “ tell us please why Abbas stating “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the PLO states Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall

To be fair, Coyote is responding to what the first post asks, which is What Does It Mean To You? Her post says what it means to her, from what she understands of it.

Now, it should only be fair to bring up the origin of that saying and what the PLO meant by it, and what Hamas and Abbas, and others actually mean by it. Does it have the same meaning to them as to the PLO, has the meaning changed since 1964?


So, I would hope that pro Palestinians would read the information below, think about it and tell us if they agree with it, and why. Does it mean to YOU, the same as it meant to the PLO when they coined the phrase :



"Palestine from the river to the sea" was claimed as Palestine by the PLO[65] from its establishment in 1964 until the signing of the Oslo Accords.[78] The PLO claim was originally set on areas, controlled by the State of Israel prior to 1967 War, meaning the combined Coastal Plain, Galilee, Yizrael Valley, Arava Valley and Negev Desert, but excluding West Bank (controlled then by Jordan) and Gaza Strip (occupied between 1959 and 1967 by Egypt). In a slightly different fashion "Palestine from the river to the sea" is still claimed by Hamas,[79] referring to all areas of former Mandatory Palestine.

From the River to the Sea (Arabic: min al-nahr ila al-bahr ) is, and forms part of, a popular political slogan used by Palestinian nationalists. It contains the notion that the land which lies between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea be entirely placed under Arab rule at the cost of the State of Israel, excluding the contested Golan Heights, conquered from Syria in 1967 and unilaterally annexed in 1981.[80] It has been used frequently by Arab leaders[81][82] and is often chanted at anti-Israel demonstrations.[83]

The slogan is versatile with numerous variations including "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,"[84] "Palestine is ours from the river to the sea," "Palestine is Islamic from the river to the sea,"[85] Islamic scholars also claim the Mahdiwill also declare the slogan in the following format: "Jerusalem is Arab Muslim, and Palestine — all of it, from the river to the sea — is Arab Muslim."[86]

Palestinian nationalism - Wikipedia

“ Mandatory Palestine” is all of Israel; nothing to do with “ 67 Borders” that were never recognized

It is for them to answer what that sentence means to them based on what the PLO meant in 1964, or what it means now.

Let us have a discussion based on those points.

“ From the River to the Sea” says it all. What else is there to say?

It is for them to say it.
This is the premise of this thread:

"
This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?"

 

[José]

What does "from the river to the sea, Palestine must be free" mean?

 

[José]

Since there is no sea between Jerusalem and the Jordan river it's obvious the saying refers to the dismantlement of the state of Israel...

 

[Penelope]

And all the people at the UN clapped.

Which will not happen. SHERI

It happened, why, because we all know about Israel and their occupation.
Since the Pres. of CNN is a jew and his second hand is as well, what do you expect, he got fired.

“ From the River to the Sea Palestine will be set free” is the Eradication of Israel. SHERI. It has nothing to do with the Pres. of CNN.
If someone on a major Network stated the same thing about Israel and they were fired you would be in your glory. Just more proof you are a Racist bigoted.

Who says, YOU??

 

[Coyote]

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

I have a couple of comments and questions, but I'd like to start with...

What would full autonomy look like? How will we know when it is achieved?

Multiple ways.

Either as one or multiple states or city states with a defined territory, self governing, with an economy, trade, peaceful relations with it's neighbots and a recognized member of the international community. Such entities would control their own borders, and negotiate their own agreements and provide for their people as best they can.

Achievement would be recognized when those conditions are met.

 

[Coyote]

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

You are forgetting six words; From the River to the Sea” which includes ALL of Israel which is referred to as Palestine.
Since you believe in “ equality “ tell us please why Abbas stating “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the PLO states Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall

The OP asked a specific question: what does it mean to me. If you want to divert into other discussions that is your choice but I speak for myself only as per the question asked

 

[USAF 2023]

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

You are forgetting six words; From the River to the Sea” which includes ALL of Israel which is referred to as Palestine.
Since you believe in “ equality “ tell us please why Abbas stating “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the PLO states Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall

The OP asked a specific question: what does it mean to me. If you want to divert into other discussions that is your choice but I speak for myself only as per the question asked

The OP states from the River to the Sea which included all of Israel. My question is more then appropriate

 

[USAF 2023]

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

You are forgetting six words; From the River to the Sea” which includes ALL of Israel which is referred to as Palestine.
Since you believe in “ equality “ tell us please why Abbas stating “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the PLO states Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall

The OP asked a specific question: what does it mean to me. If you want to divert into other discussions that is your choice but I speak for myself only as per the question asked

The OP states from the River to the Sea which included all of Israel. My question is more then appropriate
Since you believe in “ equality” my other questions are also appropriate. I would say I’m a little surprised ( thought there was more objectivity) but I forgot; There never is from a Pro Palestinian sympathizer

 

[Coyote]

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

This is primarily a question for Team Palestine.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free". What does this mean to you? How will we know that Palestine is free? What are the conditions which much be met?

Ok. I will bite.

To me it means that we have to first define what it means to be free. To me it means freedom from oppressive rule, a representative form of government, a recognition of basic rights and freedoms: freedom to worship, travel, speak and a free media. It neans equality of fundamental rights across the population.

In regards to Palestine, it means and end to ambiguosly governed territories where a segment of the population resides under military law and the under the far more rights conscious civil law.

It means that those territories either become fully autonomous or they become fully Istaeli with complete and equal citizenship for all residents in either case, and a constitutional protection for the freedom of minorities.

You are forgetting six words; From the River to the Sea” which includes ALL of Israel which is referred to as Palestine.
Since you believe in “ equality “ tell us please why Abbas stating “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the PLO states Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall

The OP asked a specific question: what does it mean to me. If you want to divert into other discussions that is your choice but I speak for myself only as per the question asked

The OP states from the River to the Sea which included all of Israel. My question is more then appropriate

And Israel was included in my answer.

 

[Shusha]

Either as one or multiple states or city states with a defined territory, self governing, with an economy, trade, peaceful relations with it's neighbots and a recognized member of the international community. Such entities would control their own borders, and negotiate their own agreements and provide for their people as best they can.

Achievement would be recognized when those conditions are met.

Which of those conditions have not yet been met, and how can they be met?

 

[Coyote]

Either as one or multiple states or city states with a defined territory, self governing, with an economy, trade, peaceful relations with it's neighbots and a recognized member of the international community. Such entities would control their own borders, and negotiate their own agreements and provide for their people as best they can.

Achievement would be recognized when those conditions are met.

Which of those conditions have not yet been met, and how can they be met?

That is an incredibly compex question. But I am sitting in traffic on the interstate behind a probable accident and not going anywhere any time soon so I have time to answer.

In terms of the Palestinian people...there is Gaza and WB. None of those conditions are completely met. Gaza had partial autonomy. West Bank similar. West Bank operates under three different, and often inequitable systems of law which makes no sense. There are large portions of Palestine thst are ambiguous. Are they psrt of Israel or not? There is considerable resistence to allowing the Palestinians to be recognized in the international community and efforts to do so have usually been met with retribution on Israel's part. In terms of peaceful relations with their neighbors, Gaza has not met that condition but WB by and large has. The government is not answerable to the people, and corruption is a huge problem.

In terms of Israel, it has met many conditions regatding pursuing friendly relations, trade, recognized standing in the international community. It's government is anwerable to its citizens and protects their rights for the most part but there are problems.

To meet the conditions of freedom...

Palestinians need to make a decision..do they want an autonomous state or two? Do they want semi autonomous regions as part of a larger Greater Israel state or Caliphates. They need to start holding their leaders accountsble for their state of affairs first and then work on pushing for political not violent solutions and international recognition with or without Israel's permission. They need to renounce terrorist acts and stop rewarding them.

In terms of Israel, it needs quit sitting on the occupied territories and make a decision. Either take the area and ALL its inhabitants as Israeli citizens with full and equal rights, or allow it independence. You can not have freedom when on portion of the populationis subject to military law and the other to civil law. When pn portion can participate on a democracy and the other is excluded.

20 min and traffic hasnt moved at all...

 

[USAF 2023]

Either as one or multiple states or city states with a defined territory, self governing, with an economy, trade, peaceful relations with it's neighbots and a recognized member of the international community. Such entities would control their own borders, and negotiate their own agreements and provide for their people as best they can.

Achievement would be recognized when those conditions are met.

Which of those conditions have not yet been met, and how can they be met?

That is an incredibly compex question. But I am sitting in traffic on the interstate behind a probable accident and not going anywhere any time soon so I have time to answer.

In terms of the Palestinian people...there is Gaza and WB. None of those conditions are completely met. Gaza had partial autonomy. West Bank similar. West Bank operates under three different, and often inequitable systems of law which makes no sense. There are large portions of Palestine thst are ambiguous. Are they psrt of Israel or not? There is considerable resistence to allowing the Palestinians to be recognized in the international community and efforts to do so have usually been met with retribution on Israel's part. In terms of peaceful relations with their neighbors, Gaza has not met that condition but WB by and large has. The government is not answerable to the people, and corruption is a huge problem.

In terms of Israel, it has met many conditions regatding pursuing friendly relations, trade, recognized standing in the international community. It's government is anwerable to its citizens and protects their rights for the most part but there are problems.

To meet the conditions of freedom...

Palestinians need to make a decision..do they want an autonomous state or two? Do they want semi autonomous regions as part of a larger Greater Israel state or Caliphates. They need to start holding their leaders accountsble for their state of affairs first and then work on pushing for political not violent solutions and international recognition with or without Israel's permission. They need to renounce terrorist acts and stop rewarding them.

In terms of Israel, it needs quit sitting on the occupied territories and make a decision. Either take the area and ALL its inhabitants as Israeli citizens with full and equal rights, or allow it independence. You can not have freedom when on portion of the populationis subject to military law and the other to civil law. When pn portion can participate on a democracy and the other is excluded.

20 min and traffic hasnt moved at all...

Israel left Gaza and offered almost all of the West .Bank and E. Jerusalem. Israel does want to keep the Jewish quarter which is reasonable. This has been vetoed by Abbas. In addition as mentioned before the PA has declared No Rights to the Western Wall
One more thing.... “ Right of Return “ is off the table. For that reason alone there will never be a solution.

 

[toastman]

Ask yourselves this: if there was no martial law, and Gaza was fully autonomous, how would the Palestinians react?
Well , that question can be answered by remembering the two intifadas.

Everything that Israel does to the Palestinians , which haters will call ‘racism’ or whatever, is to protect Israeli citizens . That simple.

 

[Coyote]

Ask yourselves this: if there was no martial law, and Gaza was fully autonomous, how would the Palestinians react?
Well , that question can be answered by remembering the two intifadas.

Everything that Israel does to the Palestinians , which haters will call ‘racism’ or whatever, is to protect Israeli citizens . That simple.

I am not sure about martial law but you have areas (call it disputed or call it occupied) where Israeli’s are governed by civil laws do Palestinians by military law). Shouldn’t they be governed by the same?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Maybe that means end the occupation.

 

[Shusha]

Maybe that means end the occupation.

Sure. End the occupation from the river to the sea. So what does THAT entail? How will we know when that has been accomplished?