USMB Moderation Announcement.

[flacaltenn]

There's been complaints from both sides about how "non conflict" thread themes and titles are moderated. You have a right to expect that posting GOOD things about either Israeli or Palestinian life should be respected and "protected" from "thread bombers". The way we're reading the complaints is that you want MORE protection of those themes.

The Israel/Palestine forum is NOT supposed to be a forum only about conflict in the Holy Land. It is listed in the Global section of USMB with other countries and regions to allow all manner of threads and titles about those countries and regions. So -- there should be threads that are FREE from diverting the topic to the "ugly" things.

Problem has been that the Zone2 rules that the I/P forum is under allows quite a bit of latitude in what is considered "on topic'. And to solve that problem we need some special rules for these "non-conflict" threads. So we're gonna experiment with a special Sub-Forum to Israel/Palestine with rules that make it clear the threads within it are NOT to be contentious in any way. IDEALLY -- everyone understands what "non-contentious" is and virtually NO moderation will be required. But realize, this sub forum will be under TIGHTER moderation rules than the parent I/P forum. And they WILL be enforced.

ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT is that you create titles and themes that are SPECIFIC enough to allow moderation to "protect" them. Best to be VERY SPECIFIC about what the theme of the thread will be. Because we don't censor or delete post content that actually addresses the tittle/theme of your threads.

Draft of the sticky rules for this forum..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
New Sub Forum name.
Modern Daily Life in the Holy Land

No arguments about history of the region.
No political combat.
No Thread Bombing or conflict discussion
No regional politics.
No pics or vids of civil unrest or conflict.

Suggested topics --

Art, music culture, sports
Business and innovation
Social outreach, education, innovation
Cooperative efforts aimed at reconciliation
Travel, recreation and tourism
Archaeology, holy places
Food, recipes, shopping, real estate
Any other "non-combative" topics that shed light on daily life in the region.

The "theme" of the threads will be "the topic". Specific thread titles and themes are better than General. That way you can zero in on specific aspects of life in the region and leave lots of room for other topics. Topics with very broad themes (such as "Life in Israel" or "Life in Palestine" may be closed). Religious celebrations and practice is a fair topic, but must be kept non-combative.

If your goal is to carry the "conflict" to these threads --- you will become warned and thread or forum banned. The goal is to provide a place to celebrate life as it really is in the Holy Land. It's fine to be inquisitive and challenge assertions to some extent, but Zone1 rules are in effect. In addition, the specific themes of the thread WILL BE ENFORCED for as long as they are active.

Threads may be moved to the parent Israel/Palestine if there is any large chance of conflict and or confrontation. We hope there will be little need to moderate here. Post here as though it's a Civil Discussion Area..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
AyeCantSeeYou WillHaftawaite Coyote

Comments,questions and replies to this concept are welcome. We may revise the rules and format based on your input. But IMPORTANTLY -- for the purposes of THIS thread ------------------------------------

Don't discuss OTHER moderation/member issues here. Contact Mod Staff via Private Message conversations. Don't get personal or mention members/mods.

 

[rylah]

Do we open such threads declaring them as specifically "positive" under these new rules,
or does the team do it?

 

[Natural Citizen]

The goal is to provide a place to celebrate life as it really is in the Holy Land.

Why?

 

[flacaltenn]

The goal is to provide a place to celebrate life as it really is in the Holy Land.

Why?

Because it's been 50 years since Israel won the 67 war that put the West Bank and Gaza under their administration. And IN SPITE of the conflicts between Israel and Palestinians and fighting within the Pali factions, life goes on.

People need to know that there is culture, art, recreation, tourism and daily life there that is quite good for both sides. Compared to the misery index in the rest of the smoking ruins of the Middle East.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

There's been complaints from both sides about how "non conflict" thread themes and titles are moderated. You have a right to expect that posting GOOD things about either Israeli or Palestinian life should be respected and "protected" from "thread bombers". The way we're reading the complaints is that you want MORE protection of those themes.

The Israel/Palestine forum is NOT supposed to be a forum only about conflict in the Holy Land. It is listed in the Global section of USMB with other countries and regions to allow all manner of threads and titles about those countries and regions. So -- there should be threads that are FREE from diverting the topic to the "ugly" things.

Problem has been that the Zone2 rules that the I/P forum is under allows quite a bit of latitude in what is considered "on topic'. And to solve that problem we need some special rules for these "non-conflict" threads. So we're gonna experiment with a special Sub-Forum to Israel/Palestine with rules that make it clear the threads within it are NOT to be contentious in any way. IDEALLY -- everyone understands what "non-contentious" is and virtually NO moderation will be required. But realize, this sub forum will be under TIGHTER moderation rules than the parent I/P forum. And they WILL be enforced.

ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT is that you create titles and themes that are SPECIFIC enough to allow moderation to "protect" them. Best to be VERY SPECIFIC about what the theme of the thread will be. Because we don't censor or delete post content that actually addresses the tittle/theme of your threads.

Draft of the sticky rules for this forum..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
New Sub Forum name.
Modern Daily Life in the Holy Land

No arguments about history of the region.
No political combat.
No Thread Bombing or conflict discussion
No regional politics.
No pics or vids of civil unrest or conflict.

Suggested topics --

Art, music culture, sports
Business and innovation
Social outreach, education, innovation
Cooperative efforts aimed at reconciliation
Travel, recreation and tourism
Archaeology, holy places
Food, recipes, shopping, real estate
Any other "non-combative" topics that shed light on daily life in the region.

The "theme" of the threads will be "the topic". Specific thread titles and themes are better than General. That way you can zero in on specific aspects of life in the region and leave lots of room for other topics. Topics with very broad themes (such as "Life in Israel" or "Life in Palestine" may be closed). Religious celebrations and practice is a fair topic, but must be kept non-combative.

If your goal is to carry the "conflict" to these threads --- you will become warned and thread or forum banned. The goal is to provide a place to celebrate life as it really is in the Holy Land. It's fine to be inquisitive and challenge assertions to some extent, but Zone1 rules are in effect. In addition, the specific themes of the thread WILL BE ENFORCED for as long as they are active.

Threads may be moved to the parent Israel/Palestine if there is any large chance of conflict and or confrontation. We hope there will be little need to moderate here. Post here as though it's a Civil Discussion Area..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
AyeCantSeeYou WillHaftawaite Coyote

Comments,questions and replies to this concept are welcome. We may revise the rules and format based on your input. But IMPORTANTLY -- for the purposes of THIS thread ------------------------------------

Don't discuss OTHER moderation/member issues here. Contact Mod Staff via Private Message conversations. Don't get personal or mention members/mods.

I think it's unhealthy to create sections which are exempt from discussion of conflicting ideas. If what you're talking about is changing the topic from one thing to another entirely different thing, in order to make the thread topic negative, that's already covered under "Derailment".

 

[flacaltenn]

Do we open such threads declaring them as specifically "positive" under these new rules,
or does the team do it?

I think it's pretty easy to for members to figure out how to write "non-combative" OPs that talk about modern life in Israel and the occupied territories. The only guidance moderation is giving is to not make the titles/topics "too general" so that we can really restrict the thread diversions and the "attack posters" from turning those threads into the same combat that appears in the parent I/P forum..

 

[flacaltenn]

There's been complaints from both sides about how "non conflict" thread themes and titles are moderated. You have a right to expect that posting GOOD things about either Israeli or Palestinian life should be respected and "protected" from "thread bombers". The way we're reading the complaints is that you want MORE protection of those themes.

The Israel/Palestine forum is NOT supposed to be a forum only about conflict in the Holy Land. It is listed in the Global section of USMB with other countries and regions to allow all manner of threads and titles about those countries and regions. So -- there should be threads that are FREE from diverting the topic to the "ugly" things.

Problem has been that the Zone2 rules that the I/P forum is under allows quite a bit of latitude in what is considered "on topic'. And to solve that problem we need some special rules for these "non-conflict" threads. So we're gonna experiment with a special Sub-Forum to Israel/Palestine with rules that make it clear the threads within it are NOT to be contentious in any way. IDEALLY -- everyone understands what "non-contentious" is and virtually NO moderation will be required. But realize, this sub forum will be under TIGHTER moderation rules than the parent I/P forum. And they WILL be enforced.

ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT is that you create titles and themes that are SPECIFIC enough to allow moderation to "protect" them. Best to be VERY SPECIFIC about what the theme of the thread will be. Because we don't censor or delete post content that actually addresses the tittle/theme of your threads.

Draft of the sticky rules for this forum..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
New Sub Forum name.
Modern Daily Life in the Holy Land

No arguments about history of the region.
No political combat.
No Thread Bombing or conflict discussion
No regional politics.
No pics or vids of civil unrest or conflict.

Suggested topics --

Art, music culture, sports
Business and innovation
Social outreach, education, innovation
Cooperative efforts aimed at reconciliation
Travel, recreation and tourism
Archaeology, holy places
Food, recipes, shopping, real estate
Any other "non-combative" topics that shed light on daily life in the region.

The "theme" of the threads will be "the topic". Specific thread titles and themes are better than General. That way you can zero in on specific aspects of life in the region and leave lots of room for other topics. Topics with very broad themes (such as "Life in Israel" or "Life in Palestine" may be closed). Religious celebrations and practice is a fair topic, but must be kept non-combative.

If your goal is to carry the "conflict" to these threads --- you will become warned and thread or forum banned. The goal is to provide a place to celebrate life as it really is in the Holy Land. It's fine to be inquisitive and challenge assertions to some extent, but Zone1 rules are in effect. In addition, the specific themes of the thread WILL BE ENFORCED for as long as they are active.

Threads may be moved to the parent Israel/Palestine if there is any large chance of conflict and or confrontation. We hope there will be little need to moderate here. Post here as though it's a Civil Discussion Area..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
AyeCantSeeYou WillHaftawaite Coyote

Comments,questions and replies to this concept are welcome. We may revise the rules and format based on your input. But IMPORTANTLY -- for the purposes of THIS thread ------------------------------------

Don't discuss OTHER moderation/member issues here. Contact Mod Staff via Private Message conversations. Don't get personal or mention members/mods.

I think it's unhealthy to create sections which are exempt from discussion of conflicting ideas. If what you're talking about is changing the topic from one thing to another entirely different thing, in order to make the thread topic negative, that's already covered under "Derailment".

This is unique to the Israel/Palestine forum. Not a general move for other forums. And it's because people actually LIVE there and they work and prosper on both sides of the turmoil. And we have too many people who are only in the I/P forum FOR the conflict and shouting. It's a "sub lounge" for discussing the actual modern daily life in the Holy Land. NOT the stuff that Americans see and expect in our media and press.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The goal is to provide a place to celebrate life as it really is in the Holy Land.

Why?

Because it's been 50 years since Israel won the 67 war that put the West Bank and Gaza under their administration. And IN SPITE of the conflicts between Israel and Palestinians and fighting within the Pali factions, life goes on.

People need to know that there is culture, art, recreation, tourism and daily life there that is quite good for both sides. Compared to the misery index in the rest of the smoking ruins of the Middle East.

Certainly words are powerful things. Understood. Thanks!

 

[Pumpkin Row]

There's been complaints from both sides about how "non conflict" thread themes and titles are moderated. You have a right to expect that posting GOOD things about either Israeli or Palestinian life should be respected and "protected" from "thread bombers". The way we're reading the complaints is that you want MORE protection of those themes.

The Israel/Palestine forum is NOT supposed to be a forum only about conflict in the Holy Land. It is listed in the Global section of USMB with other countries and regions to allow all manner of threads and titles about those countries and regions. So -- there should be threads that are FREE from diverting the topic to the "ugly" things.

Problem has been that the Zone2 rules that the I/P forum is under allows quite a bit of latitude in what is considered "on topic'. And to solve that problem we need some special rules for these "non-conflict" threads. So we're gonna experiment with a special Sub-Forum to Israel/Palestine with rules that make it clear the threads within it are NOT to be contentious in any way. IDEALLY -- everyone understands what "non-contentious" is and virtually NO moderation will be required. But realize, this sub forum will be under TIGHTER moderation rules than the parent I/P forum. And they WILL be enforced.

ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT is that you create titles and themes that are SPECIFIC enough to allow moderation to "protect" them. Best to be VERY SPECIFIC about what the theme of the thread will be. Because we don't censor or delete post content that actually addresses the tittle/theme of your threads.

Draft of the sticky rules for this forum..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
New Sub Forum name.
Modern Daily Life in the Holy Land

No arguments about history of the region.
No political combat.
No Thread Bombing or conflict discussion
No regional politics.
No pics or vids of civil unrest or conflict.

Suggested topics --

Art, music culture, sports
Business and innovation
Social outreach, education, innovation
Cooperative efforts aimed at reconciliation
Travel, recreation and tourism
Archaeology, holy places
Food, recipes, shopping, real estate
Any other "non-combative" topics that shed light on daily life in the region.

The "theme" of the threads will be "the topic". Specific thread titles and themes are better than General. That way you can zero in on specific aspects of life in the region and leave lots of room for other topics. Topics with very broad themes (such as "Life in Israel" or "Life in Palestine" may be closed). Religious celebrations and practice is a fair topic, but must be kept non-combative.

If your goal is to carry the "conflict" to these threads --- you will become warned and thread or forum banned. The goal is to provide a place to celebrate life as it really is in the Holy Land. It's fine to be inquisitive and challenge assertions to some extent, but Zone1 rules are in effect. In addition, the specific themes of the thread WILL BE ENFORCED for as long as they are active.

Threads may be moved to the parent Israel/Palestine if there is any large chance of conflict and or confrontation. We hope there will be little need to moderate here. Post here as though it's a Civil Discussion Area..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
AyeCantSeeYou WillHaftawaite Coyote

Comments,questions and replies to this concept are welcome. We may revise the rules and format based on your input. But IMPORTANTLY -- for the purposes of THIS thread ------------------------------------

Don't discuss OTHER moderation/member issues here. Contact Mod Staff via Private Message conversations. Don't get personal or mention members/mods.

I think it's unhealthy to create sections which are exempt from discussion of conflicting ideas. If what you're talking about is changing the topic from one thing to another entirely different thing, in order to make the thread topic negative, that's already covered under "Derailment".

This is unique to the Israel/Palestine forum. Not a general move for other forums. And it's because people actually LIVE there and they work and prosper on both sides of the turmoil. And we have too many people who are only in the I/P forum FOR the conflict and shouting. It's a "sub lounge" for discussing the actual modern daily life in the Holy Land. NOT the stuff that Americans see and expect in our media and press.

Yes, I understand it's unique to the Israel/Palestine forum, what I'm saying is that I don't see a benefit to making exceptions for that specific section. Wouldn't the modern daily life in that area be subject to conflicting ideas, and shouldn't those conflicting ideas be discussed?

I'm just under the impression that things which aren't encouraged would already be covered by the rules. If anything, I would think that you should clarify that things from our media and press belong in other subforums and would be considered offtopic.

 

[flacaltenn]

Wouldn't the modern daily life in that area be subject to conflicting ideas, and shouldn't those conflicting ideas be discussed?

Why should discussing inventions, innovation, daily modern life there be subjected to "conflicting ideas"???

Can't a nation have a social life without "thread bombers" intent on conflict? If the topic was Palestinian real estate development or integrated Israeli/Palestinian daycares -- should someone be able to drop into the thread and just post pictures of Israelis holding guns to young Palestinians or start talking about whether Abraham actually owned the land that the Palestinians are building a new city on?

 

[Linkiloo]

Wouldn't the modern daily life in that area be subject to conflicting ideas, and shouldn't those conflicting ideas be discussed?

Why should discussing inventions, innovation, daily modern life there be subjected to "conflicting ideas"???

Can't a nation have a social life without "thread bombers" intent on conflict? If the topic was Palestinian real estate development or integrated Israeli/Palestinian daycares -- should someone be able to drop into the thread and just post pictures of Israelis holding guns to young Palestinians or start talking about whether Abraham actually owned the land that the Palestinians are building a new city on?

Totally agree. Every single thread ends up on a spiral to nowhere with the same bombers posting their same nonsense over and over.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Wouldn't the modern daily life in that area be subject to conflicting ideas, and shouldn't those conflicting ideas be discussed?

Why should discussing inventions, innovation, daily modern life there be subjected to "conflicting ideas"???

Can't a nation have a social life without "thread bombers" intent on conflict? If the topic was Palestinian real estate development or integrated Israeli/Palestinian daycares -- should someone be able to drop into the thread and just post pictures of Israelis holding guns to young Palestinians or start talking about whether Abraham actually owned the land that the Palestinians are building a new city on?

Yes, actually, since people can have conflicting ideas regarding those inventions and innovation, much like they do anywhere else. Nothing makes those locations more special than anywhere else.

Does posting, say, those pictures in response to a thread which is discussing real estate or daycares NOT count as derailment or something? I think if not, you may need to reconsider your guidelines for derailment rather than make special rules for a subsection.

 

[fncceo]

In the words of Dorothy Parker...

"If you don't have anything nice to say about anyone else ... come sit next to me."

 

[Natural Citizen]

Totally agree. Every single thread ends up on a spiral to nowhere with the same bombers posting their same nonsense over and over.

I kind of view the whole board this way. Most of the time anyway. That's why I mentioned about bringing groups back. That way you can escape the circus and hang out with your own people, the discussion would be better.

 

[flacaltenn]

Does posting, say, those pictures in response to a thread which is discussing real estate or daycares NOT count as derailment or something? I think if not, you may need to reconsider your guidelines for derailment rather than make special rules for a subsection.

It gets trickier in a place like the I/P forum. Because talking about Kids in joint Israeli/Pali daycare and their parents getting along wonderfully COULD include comments about the "propaganda in Pali schools, where Israel is not even on their map on the wall". Or comments like "the kids will change their views when they get hit with rubber bullets"..

EITHER of statements essentially ends the purpose of the thread and will lead to an IMMEDIATE leap into personal conflict. The problem is -- under Zone2 rules -- we would probably ALLOW those comments. Because we always err on the minimalist theory side of moderation. But in the I/P forum, the thread blows up before we can even react.

Members of that forum seem upset that we allow those comments to stand. Tho we do act on MORE OBVIOUS thread diversions. Seems THEY want a place where EACH SIDE can speak proudly of the lives they have built in spite of the turmoil and without some dissident continuing the same confrontations that are in every thread in the parent I/P forum...

Think of it this way. This is why USMB has a Lounge and Coffee Shop and Music threads that moderation protects from the noise of the constant battles raging in the other 33 forums. It's a "lounge" for discussing actual life in the Holy Land.

 

[flacaltenn]

Totally agree. Every single thread ends up on a spiral to nowhere with the same bombers posting their same nonsense over and over.

I kind of view the whole board this way. Most of the time anyway. That's why I mentioned about bringing groups back. That way you can escape the circus and hang out with your own people, the discussion would be better.

But you never know who you'd be excluding. Or what they could contribute. I'll tell you one thing. THere's about 18 regulars in the I/P forum and only 3 or 4 of them LIVE in Israel/Palestine. And a lot of the rest only know of the conflict and confrontation parts of life there.

USMB members will learn MORE about Israelis and Palestinians from a "more civil" sub forum -- then they ever would from the main forum which is all about protest and American biased views of who actually lives there.

 

[Linkiloo]

Totally agree. Every single thread ends up on a spiral to nowhere with the same bombers posting their same nonsense over and over.

I kind of view the whole board this way. Most of the time anyway. That's why I mentioned about bringing groups back. That way you can escape the circus and hang out with your own people, the discussion would be better.

But sounds kinda boring....like an echo chamber. We need the monotonous fighting, don't we?

 

[Linkiloo]

Does posting, say, those pictures in response to a thread which is discussing real estate or daycares NOT count as derailment or something? I think if not, you may need to reconsider your guidelines for derailment rather than make special rules for a subsection.

It gets trickier in a place like the I/P forum. Because talking about Kids in joint Israeli/Pali daycare and their parents getting along wonderfully COULD include comments about the "propaganda in Pali schools, where Israel is not even on their map on the wall". Or comments like "the kids will change their views when they get hit with rubber bullets"..

EITHER of statements essentially ends the purpose of the thread and will lead to an IMMEDIATE leap into personal conflict. The problem is -- under Zone2 rules -- we would probably ALLOW those comments. Because we always err on the minimalist theory side of moderation. But in the I/P forum, the thread blows up before we can even react.

Members of that forum seem upset that we allow those comments to stand. Tho we do act on MORE OBVIOUS thread diversions. Seems THEY want a place where EACH SIDE can speak proudly of the lives they have built in spite of the turmoil and without some dissident continuing the same confrontations that are in every thread in the parent I/P forum...

Think of it this way. This is why USMB has a Lounge and Coffee Shop and Music threads that moderation protects from the noise of the constant battles raging in the other 33 forums. It's a "lounge" for discussing actual life in the Holy Land.

I appreciate your balanced view.I must say that I just checked out a thread by a mod who admits she's pro Palestine and then publically calls out "Team Israel" ONLY for bombing the pro-Pal threads instead of recognising that this cuts both ways. That approach is more the problem than the solution.

 

[flacaltenn]

Totally agree. Every single thread ends up on a spiral to nowhere with the same bombers posting their same nonsense over and over.

I kind of view the whole board this way. Most of the time anyway. That's why I mentioned about bringing groups back. That way you can escape the circus and hang out with your own people, the discussion would be better.

But sounds kinda boring....like an echo chamber. We need the monotonous fighting, don't we?

The Friday Night Main Event is every day and night in the I/P forum. We'll put in an escalator so that you can quickly move from "fine dining in Ramallah" to the "monotonous fighting".

 

[Linkiloo]

Totally agree. Every single thread ends up on a spiral to nowhere with the same bombers posting their same nonsense over and over.

I kind of view the whole board this way. Most of the time anyway. That's why I mentioned about bringing groups back. That way you can escape the circus and hang out with your own people, the discussion would be better.

But sounds kinda boring....like an echo chamber. We need the monotonous fighting, don't we?

The Friday Night Main Event is every day and night in the I/P forum. We'll put in an escalator so that you can quickly move from "fine dining in Ramallah" to the "monotonous fighting".

Ha ha...I prefer a starter that is "Embroidery in Ramallah", a main that is "Israel bombs kids" and for dessert "Khazar Jews aren't real". Can you top that, Flatten ?