What a Christian thinks...

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bullypulpit, Dec 22, 2004.

  1. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    <blockquote>Fire and Brimstone
    A letter from a Pastor to the President


    Dear President Bush,

    When you were running for office, you stated that Jesus Christ was your favorite philosopher. You have made a point of proclaiming your Christian faith. You have put time and energy in an attempt to link the church's mission with state social security. You have, particularly since September 11, continually preached GOD BLESS AMERICA on almost every public occasion.

    As a Pastor and fellow United Methodist, I need to ask you: Do you know what the values and vision of Jesus are?

    I ask the question because I am baffled and confused by your behavior. You claim Christ but act like Caesar. There is blood all over your hands, with the promise of even more blood to come. You sit atop the nations like the biblical Whore of Babylon, openly fornicating with the military men of might, their corporate sponsors, their nuclear madness, and their insatiable hunger for global armament. Is this how you learned Christ?

    You claim the benevolence of your Administration toward the rest of the world. But the treaties you make, and the treaties you un-make, continue to be laced with a tightened rope around the neck of the poor. Is this how you learned to "forgive our debtors"? Is it really Christ-like to insist on cuts in life-supporting infrastructure while increasing military budgets and allowing the plunder of nations to accrue to a very small financial elite? Have you not been taught that Jesus was crucified by these same Principalities and Powers?

    You practice a patriotic righteousness that visualizes never-ending war against enemies of great evil. You bombed Afghanistan, with both guns and butter, to show the difference. But do you really think the few crumbs of bread airlifted to Afghanistan shield the reality: that you have no intention to assist in building a sustainable society there? Is this how Christ taught you to avenge the wrongs done unto you?

    I am troubled by your spirit, George. You claim you are of the Sustainer of Life, but you practice the terror of Death. You are spreading the war. Afghanistan is only the beginning. Military presence crops up world-wide. You bait us with Iraq and shield what you are doing in Columbia. You lay the groundwork for disrupting Venezuela, Brazil, and Argentina. You allow the dogs of capitalism to sink their teeth into the battered body of a raped Central America. And the buck stops on your desk, George: Is this what Jesus would do?

    The Spirit of Death rises, and nations tremble. We the people of the United States tremble. We discover how truly powerless we have become. Our military budget grows to obscene levels, bankrupting the social infrastructure from which our security and freedom rise. We see basic medical care costs increase, even as more and more Americans find themselves without health care. We see environmental treaties subverted, ignored, and disappeared, even as Mother Earth signals increasing distress. Labor rights are made secondary to the rights of corporations, resulting in wage reductions and growing financial insecurity. Homelessness exposes itself through tented cities. Education becomes the victim of budget knife cuts. A few benefit but the groan of the masses is growing. Whose side are you on, George?

    Perhaps you think that God has chosen you for this hour. Perhaps God has. So again I ask you, Is this how you learned Christ? If God has chosen you for this hour then, in Christ's name, serve the values and vision of Jesus: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, release the prisoners, cancel the debt, forgive your enemies, practice Jubilee. Then, through you, this nation and all nations will be blessed.

    But beware: the road of the sword will bring division and much blood. Those who take it up will be devoured by it. Many people, in the name of God, have taken up the sword. And many have come to ruin. Thinking themselves capable of naming evil, they have become the very evil they name.

    Seek Christ first,
    Rev. Rich Lang, Pastor


    Rev. Rich Lang ministers to Trinity United Methodist Church</blockquote>

    Modern Pharisees...That's what the religious right in America is. And we will all pay dearly for their sins.
     
  2. theim
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    theim Senior Member

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    Well whatever. If this nut wants to play "turn the other cheek" with psychoes who killed 3000 people he can just sit and rant all day for all I care. Yeah, lets just forgive them and practice Jubilee and all will be well! I mean, once OBL hears that we officially forgive him, and by the way are cancelling the debt owed by Africa, of course he will come around!

    KUUUMMMBAYAAAAAAAAA MY LORRRRRRRRRRD!
     
  3. Merlin
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    Merlin Active Member

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    Someone must be doing something wrong. They let this fellow escape from his straight jacket long enough to write that article.
     
  4. Gem
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    Gem BANNED

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    I feel sorry for the people who look to this man for any sort of guidance...
     
  5. no1tovote4
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    no1tovote4 VIP Member

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    Wow a Modern Pharisee of his own right. Here is a man who judges poorly those who follow what they believe simply because he thinks it is wrong not because he knows better than they do what his God thinks about things. I guess he forgot the whole Judge Not portion of the Bible.

    Well I guess he gets his earthly reward.

    I personally think his next reincarnation will not be very pleasant.
     
  6. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Im not even sure where to start with this one.

    Has he really? Maybe its just me but I dont see him making it a point to proclaim his Christian faith. He talks about it when he was asked about it. Christ was my favorite philosopher too. Which church's mission has he linked with state social security? This is the first I've heard about it. Just reading that first paragraph makes me highly suspicious it acts like there is one Christian Church, unfortunately there are many. I would think a Pastor would be aware of this.

    Also whats wrong with God blessing America? Should America not want God's blessing? I dont know about anyone else but I deffinately want God to be on my side, or rather I want to be on God's side. I want to be able to lay claim to every blessing He wants to give me. Since when is it bad to want God's blessing?

    Im curious what this pastor thinks the values and vision of Jesus are and how they are so different than what the President is trying to do. The President is definately a man of faith. He tries to do whats right with the options placed before him. I would hope any President would try to do that. Doing whats right isnt always easy. There are some tough choices and so far the President has been making good choices. Because of the President's actions and the actions of a very capable administration and military Osama has been on the run, America has not been attacked since and two nations have been liberated. We still have a long way to go but these are long term solutions. They have been going well so far and i expect they will continue to do so as long as the President is in office.

    In what way has President Bush ever acted like Caesar? He is the emperor now? What on earth does this pastor base such a conclusion on? We were attacked, what are we supposed to do let the terrorist slaughter our wives and children? We did not start this. in fact as our critics have pointed out we were friends with Osama, the Taliban, and even Saddam. We tried to help them stay free from Soviet influence, yet despite our help they turned their backs on us and betrayed us. Osama and the Taliban turned on us with 911 and Saddam back when he used our friendship to attack Kuwait for his own lust for power. America is not the aggressors. Al Queda attacked us multiple times before we finally fought back.

    Also i think this man has a very ignorant view of the military. While its true that ancient militaries fought for glory and power, we have a unique military. Our military fights not for power but to pull power down. We fight not to oppress but to free people. Because of our soldiers and these so called military men of might we are somehow fornicating with, men and women can live as a free people with very little fear of safety. Because our soldiers love freedom and their fellow men they are willing to sacrifice it all, even their life if needs be, so that their brethren can be free. How can an association with such noble warriors be bad? Sometimes good men have to fight because evil triumphs would good men do nothing.

    What treaties have the administration made or unmade that tightened ropes around the necks of the poor? We continue to give more money to help the poor around the world than any other nation. We have forgiven more debt to foriegn nations than some nations see in their budget for the past century. We also pour money in global education. We pour funding into AIDS funding an education. President Bush has probably done more for the people in poor nations suffering from AIDS than any President before him. This hurts the poor and oppresses them? how?

    What life supporting infrastructure has President Bush cut while increasing our military budgets? What plunder of nations is this man talking about? Ive seen alot of accusastions, typical of the left, but accusations don't become true just because you make them. Id like to see this pastor back up his accusations or he should admit that he was wrong and apologize.

    I would think that a pastor of all people would be very much aware of the constant battle against evil. The battle will not end until the Savior comes in Glory. Against his makes me alittle suspicious of who he claims to be.

    Also we are building Aghanistan into a sustainable society. I know the left likes to pretend we ignored them, but we are assisting them. Alot of what they do must come from themselves though. We cant force them to build the infrastructure we can only give them the opportunity. We are giving our support along with other nations. We are doing the same with Iraq. Thanks to us both nations now have many schools and hospitals than they did before. Thanks to us they have hope. And perhaps with the grace of God someday the Gospel may be preached openly in both nations so that the hope that comes only through Christ can be within their reach as well.

    I would think that a man of God would be appreciative that we have stopped the torture and opression of the governments there and given the people a chance to leave. I know I may not be a man of God persay but im grateful that people have a chance for freedom now. I hope they can live up to the Responsibility. I think they will.

    The people were oppressed. we have liberated them. We were there to punish the bad guys not the people. we were there to free them. Christ's mission was to make men free. I think the President has that same vision to make the nations of the world free even if it must be one at a time.

    He claimed he was the sustainer of life? when? Im pretty sure the President is very much aware that he is not God. Aghanistan wasnt the beginning of the war. September 11th was. It amazes me how the left cant seem to understand the simple concept We did not start this war! If they had not attacked us we would not be attacking them. But since they have attacked us we have two choices we either (1) fight back or (2) we die. This isnt a war for pleasure or for gain. Its a war for survival and freedom. And as long as those on the left like this pastor fail to understand this they will continue to lose elections.

    Also, what is wrong with Capitalism? What is wrong with letting people choose to purchase what they want and letting that dictate what is bought and sold? Does the pastor have an alternative to Capitalism? We know that socialism and communism dont work. Should we return to fuedalism?

    Our military budget is growing to obscene levels? Compared to what? The military budget is a rather small amount of the overall budget. From what i understand Education budget far exceeds it, heck it might double it.

    Also, the military is the infrastructure from which our security and freedom rise. Without the military we would soon be a very oppressed people cause some dictator thugs would walk right over us. In fact the military infrastructure is the governments first priority. The federal government doesnt have alot of official responsibilities but the main one is to defend the American people. Kind of hard to do that without a military isnt it?

    You want to know what is bankrupting the social infrustructure from which our security and freedom rises? The Social programs this man is complaining that arent getting enough funding. Bosh. The government isnt responsible for Medicare. The government isnt responsible for environmental actions. Heck the Government isnt even responsible for Education. The government is responsible for a very small list of things first being national defense, second being regulating trade, and third making treaties with other nations.

    What i think is amazing about this is this letter Bully posted to attack the President highlights exactly what is wrong with the left. They have the wrong priorities. Tell me how important is social security if we ignore national security and get killed next week? How important are labor rights? How important will fighting for the earths environment be if our children are killed because of our failure to defend ourselves? The earth will adapt to anything we throw out at it good or bad. But we cant get back our mortal lives or those of our love ones if we fail to defend ourselves. It may be the Economy stupid, but money doesnt matter that much if we are dead.

    Then why complain when that is exactly what he is doing! We feed the hungry. We the people of Iran after the eathqakes despite the oppresive government. we fed the people of Afghanistan, which was even mentioned in this letter. President Bush himself helped feed the hungry and cloth the naked of those who suffered in the hurricanes of Florida. On the day of the first debate while Kerry was getting his manicure the President was out working with the people in helping the relief effort.

    We are releasing the prisoners. Because of President Bush and the United States military we have freed the people of Aghanistan and Iraq who were being oppressed by ruthless dictators. We do what you are telling us and you are complaining about it! Make up your mind. you either support the freeing of people or we are hypocrites for doing it. you cant take both positions.

    As for the rest I've covered that already this post.

    What is evil about freeing people?!? How can you do evil by selflessly giving your life so that others can live and that evil men can be stopped? How can you be evil by freeing the Prisoners, bringing food to the hungry and clothes to the naked? If these are truly your goals then you should be fully supporting the liberation of our brothers and sisters in Iraq and Aghanistan. Yet you are angry that President Bush has arranged for their liberation. Why?

    Let go of your irrational hatred. Come unto Christ and live. Pull the beam from your eye before you complain about a mote in the President's that may or may not be there. How does making false accusations and bearly false witness help the cause of Christ?

    No Bully. We pay for our own sins and not for the sins of others. That is unless we come to Christ and then He has paid for our mistakes. If you want to live, worry about your own sins and when you have overcome your sins then you wont have to worry. God will be with you.

    BTW please stop being self righteous bully. I know you are a religious bigot and think us Christians are nothing but blind sheep, youve made that clear in the past. But just because someone claims to be Christian, and may even be a pastor doesnt mean we have to blindly follow them. That is the beauty of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. God doesnt send ministers out to teach the people and expect the people to blindly follow them. Quite the opposite. Ministers are to teach the message of the Gospel. and then those who hear must find out for themselves whether the message is true by going to God. So please stop condecending and acting like simply because someone who is Christian or someone who is "conservative" and disagrees with what the President is doing must blindly be followed. Its annoying and it doesnt help the conversation. Instead you might want to actually humble yourself and have a decent conversation rather than a hit and run post like this.
     
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  7. 007
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    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    That's pulit's favorite kind of nut... :tinfoil:
     
  8. dmp
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    dmp Senior Member

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    The Methodist Church allows Gay Ministers. They are far from being a voice of what is or isn't Christian.

    Read the following - use your judgement to determin if GWB is a man who follows Christ.

     
  9. dmp
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    dmp Senior Member

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    continued...

     
  10. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    Once again, Bully is posting something from 2002. Here is a link to the original letter:

    http://216.197.101.64/trinity/pictures/openlettertobush.pdf

    Also note that the good Rev. Lang is very anti -war, anti Bush and has been since Bush first ran for office. Lang is member of the staff at the University of southern Oregon.

    Once agin, I thought Bully was better than this...guess not.
     

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