We Look Stupid

[Samson]

IEEE Spectrum: X-ray Body Scanners Arriving at Airports
So anyone carrying a wallet could be pulled aside since they wouldn't know what, exactly, the item is

You're supposed to put all that sort of stuff aside in the bin before you go through...

How about implants or pacemakers?
Woman forced to remove prosthetic breast, And she's a flight attendant.
70 yr old man's pants removed over knee implant.

The list goes on..

No big: you have a pacemaker, then you say, "I have a pacemaker." Then you're checked out for having a pace maker.

Not rocket science.

 

[hortysir]

You're supposed to put all that sort of stuff aside in the bin before you go through...

How about implants or pacemakers?
Woman forced to remove prosthetic breast, And she's a flight attendant.
70 yr old man's pants removed over knee implant.

The list goes on..

No big: you have a pacemaker, then you say, "I have a pacemaker." Then you're checked out for having a pace maker.

Not rocket science.

It's not that easy, 'bro.
The guy with the knee implant informed TSA officials in advance.
They could have wanded him and rolled up his pant leg.
Instead he's asked to remove his pants the little glass room in public view.

 

[Valerie]

IEEE Spectrum: X-ray Body Scanners Arriving at Airports
So anyone carrying a wallet could be pulled aside since they wouldn't know what, exactly, the item is

You're supposed to put all that sort of stuff aside in the bin before you go through...

How about implants or pacemakers?
Woman forced to remove prosthetic breast, And she's a flight attendant.
70 yr old man's pants removed over knee implant.

The list goes on.


I didn't realize that any of the 9-11 hijackers, the shoe bomber, or underwear bomber were 50 yr old women or 70 yr old men.

No doubt there are certain medical conditions that require special treatment...I'm sure the TSA has a special protocol for such, I just don't see those individual circumstances and all the hyped up dramatic stories they have since prompted, as precluding the need for xray security all together.

I ESPECIALLY don't see any of the individual circumstances as an excuse for able bodied people to opt-out for the sole purpose of wreaking havoc on the system.

Fine, if you have an opinion about the new xray being too personally invasive and you want to argue to change that system, but such administrative searches at airports pass fourth amendment muster, as we are free to travel at our own discretion and we do not have a right to fly commercial...IMO the scans are no big deal.

Buying a ticket, then opting out of the scan in the moment and asking for a frisk, then crying over being violated by the frisk, and then all the dramatic stories that are bound to ensue next week, are doing NOTHING to help our security or our freedom either.

 

[Skull Pilot]

9/11
The pantie bomber
Richard Rameriz

Not probable cause you idiot.

If we use your logic then every school kid should be strip searched because of Columbine. Or every man should be treated as a rapist because some men raped some women.

I hate to agree with the moron, but



There are schools with metal detectors.

There were metal detectors at airports too. But are ALL students subject to pat downs because of columbine?

Men are the usual suspects in rape cases.

So you'd be OK if a judge used the moron's definition of probable cause and issued a search warrant and compelled you to give DNA because some other guy raped a girl? After all men are usually rapists right?

Shit why not just round up everybody in the country and compel them to be fingerprinted and DNA profiled and make them submit to random home searches after all it is people who commit all crimes in the world so we might as well say we have probable cause.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Face it, we remain reactive. Until we find a way to get ahead of them and stay ahead we will remain reactive, but then again what choice do we have? We are fighting a war against terrorism that half our government won't even acknowledge. Hell, half our people won't acknowledge it. So how do we win? All we can do is react, and those few who bitch will prevent us from even doing that. And you all know that this is nothing if the news didn't cover it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"sexual assult?"



Please, spare the drama.

BOTH profiling AND random body searches would offer the best defense against terrorist activity.

There is no reason to discount either because of a few snivilling cry-babies.

The law in California clearly criminalizes the type of contact that the TSA is using in its new searches, and at least 2 DAs have stated publicly that they are willing to file criminal charges if any passengers want to push it. You might not like the facts, but they are still there.

Besides, if I walked up to you on the street and tried that you would either react by trying to beat the crap out of me, or call the police and file charges. Why are you willing to allow strange men to grope you if they wear a blue shirt and work at an airport?

And I support profiling over treating innocent people like criminals. Smart screening makes a lot more sense, is more cost effective, and more effective. I don't expect the government to listen though.

So, in your opinion, the answer is not to search anyone who does not look Middle Eastern? Good to know. What bullshit...I'm very surprised at you, Quantum Windbag. The minute we decide to exempt any group of passengers from search, the terrorists will be busily recruiting such people or getting surgically altered to look like one, or whatever.

As for TSA getting arrested, the searches are not "unwarranted" and the DAs you mention are craven publicity whores.

I wonder if you could get anyone who lost a loved one on Flight 93 to agree we need to search fewer passengers?

No.

My solution is to spend money in ways that make sense. Concentrate on humint, not technology. Find the terrorists before they get near a plane.

Imagine, if you will, a terrorist who has a bomb hidden in his underwear, full prepped to explode when he gets on a plane. Through sheer dumb luck it gets detected by the idiot manning the scanner and he is prevented from gettin on the plane. Unfortunately, he manages to blow himself up in the airport, managing to kill almost as many people as he would have if he had gotten on the plane. Unfortunately for you, you are one of the people he managed to kill, even though he would have been on a completely different flight if he had gotten through security.

The TSA is not keeping us safe, and any defense of them only makes the real problems worse. If you want to be safe you should join the chorus of voices demanding change, not supporting the status quo.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"sexual assult?"



Please, spare the drama.

BOTH profiling AND random body searches would offer the best defense against terrorist activity.

There is no reason to discount either because of a few snivilling cry-babies.

The law in California clearly criminalizes the type of contact that the TSA is using in its new searches, and at least 2 DAs have stated publicly that they are willing to file criminal charges if any passengers want to push it. You might not like the facts, but they are still there.

Besides, if I walked up to you on the street and tried that you would either react by trying to beat the crap out of me, or call the police and file charges. Why are you willing to allow strange men to grope you if they wear a blue shirt and work at an airport?

And I support profiling over treating innocent people like criminals. Smart screening makes a lot more sense, is more cost effective, and more effective. I don't expect the government to listen though.

Link? What they are doing is no more invasive that what would be done to you by a tailor who is altering your clothing while taking measurements.

Have you ever been to a tailor? I have, and I can assure you that he neither felt up my groin, nor did he check to see if I have breasts. If they did they would not be in business very long.

As for my assertion that this is illegal.

Bay Area prosecutors warn TSA agents not to be sexual with pat downs - Inside Bay Area

 

[SFC Ollie]

Well DUH.

"Bay Area prosecutors warn TSA agents not to be sexual with pat downs"

This shouldn't even have to be said.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This is from a letter in a local Newspaper this morning.

"Who pays the price of freedom?

Please, soldier, go over there and protect me. Stand in the way of terror.
Take a bullet, run into battle for me. Just don’t make me go through
airport security. I’m not willing to give up that much for my freedom.
I’m only willing to give up yours.

Paul Hugenberg"


I have to agree with his sentiment but not that airport security gives up any freedom. I say it ensures our freedoms. Again there has to be a better way, But there isn't a better way that Americans will accept. At least none that I see right now. So flat out, do you fly and arrive alive ? Or do you keep bitching about nothing?

If I fly anywhere I want to know that everyone on the plane has gone through a good solid security check.

Why don't you insist on just that then?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We the people of the US not only look stupid, we are stupid. To allow the scanning (naked) and or a pat down that a police officer cannot perform in the dilusional perspective that it will keep us safe is stupid. As a multi million mile flyer I have seen the steady and continual erosion of the true safety measures taken at the airport since 911. Keep in mind the private screeners during 911 did their job, box cutters were OK to take on board, my sales people and I did it every day we flew.

So instead, we turn our safety over to a government that cannot deliver the mail, cannot care of our veterans, cannot secure a military base from a single gunman, cannot, keep drugs out of the country, cannot close off the boarders. NO instead they concentrate millions of wasted money in harrassing innocent civilions. For one as a former SF, I will not allow anyone to scan me or touch me unless I want them to, my solution, I no longer fly and have donated millions of frequent flyer miles yesterday.

The next move will be full body cavity searches. This will happen when we find a bomb on one of the Muslims with it up his butt. Will you agree to that too in the interest of safety?

Except the existing xray scanners would already detect a bomb up your butt...

No They Will Not. They won't even detect one in your underwear.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The scanners don't detect bombs. People using the scanners detect bombs.

Does everything have to be explained?

Apparently it does. If the scanners cannot see the material the bomb is made of, which they cannot, then the people operating the scanners cannot detect them either.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You're supposed to put all that sort of stuff aside in the bin before you go through...

How about implants or pacemakers?
Woman forced to remove prosthetic breast, And she's a flight attendant.
70 yr old man's pants removed over knee implant.

The list goes on..

No big: you have a pacemaker, then you say, "I have a pacemaker." Then you're checked out for having a pace maker.

Not rocket science.

That would require a degree of intelligence not yet exhibited by an TSA employee.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You're supposed to put all that sort of stuff aside in the bin before you go through...

How about implants or pacemakers?
Woman forced to remove prosthetic breast, And she's a flight attendant.
70 yr old man's pants removed over knee implant.

The list goes on.


I didn't realize that any of the 9-11 hijackers, the shoe bomber, or underwear bomber were 50 yr old women or 70 yr old men.

No doubt there are certain medical conditions that require special treatment...I'm sure the TSA has a special protocol for such, I just don't see those individual circumstances and all the hyped up dramatic stories they have since prompted, as precluding the need for xray security all together.

I ESPECIALLY don't see any of the individual circumstances as an excuse for able bodied people to opt-out for the sole purpose of wreaking havoc on the system.

Fine, if you have an opinion about the new xray being too personally invasive and you want to argue to change that system, but such administrative searches at airports pass fourth amendment muster, as we are free to travel at our own discretion and we do not have a right to fly commercial...IMO the scans are no big deal.

Buying a ticket, then opting out of the scan in the moment and asking for a frisk, then crying over being violated by the frisk, and then all the dramatic stories that are bound to ensue next week, are doing NOTHING to help our security or our freedom either.

Why are you so sure the TSA has something it continually displays it doesn't? If the cell phone company kept telling you you have coverage in your city, and you never got any signal, would you believe the problem was that you were not actually were you thought you were?

 

[Ravi]

The law in California clearly criminalizes the type of contact that the TSA is using in its new searches, and at least 2 DAs have stated publicly that they are willing to file criminal charges if any passengers want to push it. You might not like the facts, but they are still there.

Besides, if I walked up to you on the street and tried that you would either react by trying to beat the crap out of me, or call the police and file charges. Why are you willing to allow strange men to grope you if they wear a blue shirt and work at an airport?

And I support profiling over treating innocent people like criminals. Smart screening makes a lot more sense, is more cost effective, and more effective. I don't expect the government to listen though.

Link? What they are doing is no more invasive that what would be done to you by a tailor who is altering your clothing while taking measurements.

Have you ever been to a tailor? I have, and I can assure you that he neither felt up my groin, nor did he check to see if I have breasts. If they did they would not be in business very long.

As for my assertion that this is illegal.

Bay Area prosecutors warn TSA agents not to be sexual with pat downs - Inside Bay Area

Nor does the TSA.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Link? What they are doing is no more invasive that what would be done to you by a tailor who is altering your clothing while taking measurements.

Have you ever been to a tailor? I have, and I can assure you that he neither felt up my groin, nor did he check to see if I have breasts. If they did they would not be in business very long.

As for my assertion that this is illegal.

Bay Area prosecutors warn TSA agents not to be sexual with pat downs - Inside Bay Area

Nor does the TSA.

Yes they do. Either that, or they lied to Congress.

“The dumbest part: they did two pat-down demonstrations – male on male, and female on female,” the House staffer said. And they used a young female TSA volunteer “and in front of a room of 200 people, they touched her breasts and her buttocks. People were averting their eyes. The TSA was trying to demonstrate ‘this is not so bad,’ but it made people so uncomfortable to watch, that people were averting their eyes.”

House staffer on TSA pat-down demo: "They shot themselves in the foot" - Laura Rozen - POLITICO.com

Your problem is that you think that they are still doing the same thing they did last year, or whenever the last time you flew anywhere, and are ignoring what the TSA itself is saying.

 

[Madeline]

(NEWSER) – Fed up with the indignity of passing through an airport scanner? Colorado inventor Jeff Buske claims he has the answer: scan-proof underwear. His strategically placed fig-leaf designs on his men's and women's briefs are made of a powdered metal that blocks the scan's rays, he explains. The thin, removable inserts conform to the body's contours, making it difficult to hide anything beneath—and the components don't set off metal detectors, AP reports. It's not yet clear if the undies will fly with airport security.

'Metal' Underwear Blocks Airport Scanners - Protect your privacy with powdered-metal 'fig leaves'

 

[william the wie]

This is not only a public relations disaster, assumption of unknown liabilities and otherwise idiotic but it also trains terrorists in how to game the system. Just go with the Israeli system of humint and stop having amateur hour at the taxpayer's expense.

 

[Sallow]

This is not only a public relations disaster, assumption of unknown liabilities and otherwise idiotic but it also trains terrorists in how to game the system. Just go with the Israeli system of humint and stop having amateur hour at the taxpayer's expense.

Oh gosh.

The Israeli system IS at taxpayer expense.

American Taxpayer expense.