We don't need no stinkin Dept of Education!

[Unkotare]

It most certainly has not.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Dear God, Oh God, Please, please, please don't tell me that Rdean is a "teacher" or has anything to do with education!

 

[Unkotare]

Dear God, Oh God, Please, please, please don't tell me that Rdean is a "teacher" or has anything to do with education!

If the former, certainly not the latter.

 

[flacaltenn]

Now it's "some districts" eh? So, not "almost all," but 'almost all in some districts'? Still problematic.

Actually at LEAST the MAJORITY of districts have serious problems getting their students past competency levels on testing. Go to www.nationsreportcard.com and see the dismal news for yourself.

Actually -- here -- I'll help.. For 8th grade math the achievement levels are Basic = 262, Proficient = 299, Advanced = 333...

Go to http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcar...syear.aspx?usrSelections=1,MAT,5,1,across,0,0

And browse by state. These are only AVERAGES for ALL students in the state, or the 75th /25th percentiles. Even with these statewide averages (and not individual schools and districts) you can see gi-normous size of the problem.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You're making general declarations you cannot support and drawing illogical conclusions therefrom. If you didn't feel the need to exaggerate you wouldn't be in this rhetorical mess.

Those findings bear out my personal experience with HS grads.

tell you what you find me a study that says most HS grads are proficient in math, reading, writing and history as compared to 40 years ago and I'll concede.

I'm not worried abut you finding said study though.

Even teachers know that education is failing

Test Scores at Odds With Rising High School Grades

If a teacher were to really grade students on their true level of mastery, there would be such extraordinary levels of failure that it would not be tolerated, so most teachers don't do that

 

[Uncensored2008]

Dear God, Oh God, Please, please, please don't tell me that Rdean is a "teacher" or has anything to do with education!

RDean is an incompetent moron.

Teaching in the public schools would be very likely. No skills, no brains and no talent, sounds like a public school teacher to me....

 

[Moonglow]

You're making general declarations you cannot support and drawing illogical conclusions therefrom. If you didn't feel the need to exaggerate you wouldn't be in this rhetorical mess.

Those findings bear out my personal experience with HS grads.

tell you what you find me a study that says most HS grads are proficient in math, reading, writing and history as compared to 40 years ago and I'll concede.

I'm not worried abut you finding said study though.

Even teachers know that education is failing

Test Scores at Odds With Rising High School Grades

If a teacher were to really grade students on their true level of mastery, there would be such extraordinary levels of failure that it would not be tolerated, so most teachers don't do that

I was bad at academic skills 40 years ago, I passed school beeng a top jock.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You're making general declarations you cannot support and drawing illogical conclusions therefrom. If you didn't feel the need to exaggerate you wouldn't be in this rhetorical mess.

Those findings bear out my personal experience with HS grads.

tell you what you find me a study that says most HS grads are proficient in math, reading, writing and history as compared to 40 years ago and I'll concede.

I'm not worried abut you finding said study though.

Even teachers know that education is failing

Test Scores at Odds With Rising High School Grades

If a teacher were to really grade students on their true level of mastery, there would be such extraordinary levels of failure that it would not be tolerated, so most teachers don't do that

I was bad at academic skills 40 years ago, I passed school beeng a top jock.

Even if your grades were lower than a current high school grad I bet your understanding of the material was far beyond any recent grad.

Grades are inflated by using curves, kids who should fail are getting Bs and kids who would have received Cs get As.

The Skewing of the Bell Curve: A Study of Grade Inflation in Oklahoma High Schools

And we wonder why US schools suck.

 

[Unkotare]

Now it's "some districts" eh? So, not "almost all," but 'almost all in some districts'? Still problematic.

Actually at LEAST the MAJORITY of districts have serious problems getting their students past competency levels on testing. Go to www.nationsreportcard.com and see the dismal news for yourself.

Actually -- here -- I'll help.. For 8th grade math the achievement levels are Basic = 262, Proficient = 299, Advanced = 333...

Go to NAEP State Comparisons.net

And browse by state. These are only AVERAGES for ALL students in the state, or the 75th /25th percentiles. Even with these statewide averages (and not individual schools and districts) you can see gi-normous size of the problem.

You're missing the point. None of this proves the original claim. No one ever said there isn't a problem, but "almost all" is both insupportable and an exaggeration. Whatshisass there engaged in hyperbole and has now spent a good amount of time trying to dig his way out of a hole.

 

[Unkotare]

tell you what you find me a study that says most HS grads are proficient in math, reading, writing and history as compared to 40 years ago and I'll concede.

That's not how it works, Captain Logic. I think you know that. You made a claim you cannot support. Just don't exaggerate next time and you'll be fine.

 

[Trajan]

Can''t think of any where in the constitution that gives the Federal Government any control over education. I believe that should be up to the individual State....

Percentage wise, the federal government has minimal control over education. Most is still at the local level.

the dept of education has huge pull, they have a lever the states can pull hooked up to a cash machine. play along, you get cash.

 

[flacaltenn]

Now it's "some districts" eh? So, not "almost all," but 'almost all in some districts'? Still problematic.

Actually at LEAST the MAJORITY of districts have serious problems getting their students past competency levels on testing. Go to www.nationsreportcard.com and see the dismal news for yourself.

Actually -- here -- I'll help.. For 8th grade math the achievement levels are Basic = 262, Proficient = 299, Advanced = 333...

Go to NAEP State Comparisons.net

And browse by state. These are only AVERAGES for ALL students in the state, or the 75th /25th percentiles. Even with these statewide averages (and not individual schools and districts) you can see gi-normous size of the problem.

You're missing the point. None of this proves the original claim. No one ever said there isn't a problem, but "almost all" is both insupportable and an exaggeration. Whatshisass there engaged in hyperbole and has now spent a good amount of time trying to dig his way out of a hole.

UnkoTare:

THe public school problem is SO ABYSMALLY bad, that parents who give a shit about their kids are panicked. Today and everyday. While we argue about whether it's MOST or all of the districts that have a problem.

Trying not to be combative here -- I challenge you to watch "Waiting for Superman". You can probably order it up on Cable demand or NetFlix. After you've watched that -- tell me you still think the plight of those folks is debatable.. Or just tell me whether we should just continue the same ole strategy of pumping resources into a broken system..

PS -- not indicting teachers here. No way.. Unions YES.. But we need a multi-disciplinary triage approach to take the load OFF of the capable teachers and get families and communities involved in the solution.. That's NOT likely the Washington approach..

 

[Unkotare]

LOL. You're "challenging" me to watch a movie? Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?


And - again - I never said there wasn't a problem, so you are eagerly trying to 'convince' me of something not in dispute.

 

[Moonglow]

Those findings bear out my personal experience with HS grads.

tell you what you find me a study that says most HS grads are proficient in math, reading, writing and history as compared to 40 years ago and I'll concede.

I'm not worried abut you finding said study though.

Even teachers know that education is failing

Test Scores at Odds With Rising High School Grades

I was bad at academic skills 40 years ago, I passed school beeng a top jock.

Even if your grades were lower than a current high school grad I bet your understanding of the material was far beyond any recent grad.

Grades are inflated by using curves, kids who should fail are getting Bs and kids who would have received Cs get As.

The Skewing of the Bell Curve: A Study of Grade Inflation in Oklahoma High Schools

And we wonder why US schools suck.

No, I had to take all the basics in college. The school my youngest goes to uses the paddle and plain grading to asses knowledge.
The way you talk about school kids is the same way the old timers talked about us when we were that age.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I remember some of the things that happened when I went to public schools.

We started each day with the pledge of allegiance.

The teacher had a paddle and was permitted to use it.

There were prayers allowed and offered.

There were no metal detectors at the entrances.

There were no police officers patrolling the halls.

We learned things.

And for the most part we were color blind.

My 40 year HS Reunion.

 

[Moonglow]

Actually at LEAST the MAJORITY of districts have serious problems getting their students past competency levels on testing. Go to www.nationsreportcard.com and see the dismal news for yourself.

Actually -- here -- I'll help.. For 8th grade math the achievement levels are Basic = 262, Proficient = 299, Advanced = 333...

Go to NAEP State Comparisons.net

And browse by state. These are only AVERAGES for ALL students in the state, or the 75th /25th percentiles. Even with these statewide averages (and not individual schools and districts) you can see gi-normous size of the problem.

You're missing the point. None of this proves the original claim. No one ever said there isn't a problem, but "almost all" is both insupportable and an exaggeration. Whatshisass there engaged in hyperbole and has now spent a good amount of time trying to dig his way out of a hole.

UnkoTare:

THe public school problem is SO ABYSMALLY bad, that parents who give a shit about their kids are panicked. Today and everyday. While we argue about whether it's MOST or all of the districts that have a problem.

Trying not to be combative here -- I challenge you to watch "Waiting for Superman". You can probably order it up on Cable demand or NetFlix. After you've watched that -- tell me you still think the plight of those folks is debatable.. Or just tell me whether we should just continue the same ole strategy of pumping resources into a broken system..

PS -- not indicting teachers here. No way.. Unions YES.. But we need a multi-disciplinary triage approach to take the load OFF of the capable teachers and get families and communities involved in the solution.. That's NOT likely the Washington approach..

Washington does not control all aspects of public schools. The state and local communities have the most say so, except for the intrusive, "No Child Left Behind" program of rating schools by scores.

My kids have a much better education than I got in the sixties and seventies.

 

[Big Fitz]

Dear God, Oh God, Please, please, please don't tell me that Rdean is a "teacher" or has anything to do with education!

University Food Service. It's the only explanation.

 

[Big Fitz]

Can''t think of any where in the constitution that gives the Federal Government any control over education. I believe that should be up to the individual State....

Percentage wise, the federal government has minimal control over education. Most is still at the local level.

the dept of education has huge pull, they have a lever called the states can pull hooked up to a cash machine. play along, you get cash.

I do believe the FBI calls that Racketeering and Extortion.

 

[Gadawg73]

I'm not sure you could say most of the professors teaching in college are smart.

Touche' on the zinger.

Even so, college is not the higher learning it once was. Many incoming freshmen cannot construct a coherent sentence and don't comprehend the rules of grammar.

One of your previous posts you claimed it was "most".
Now you claim it is "many".
Community colleges take anyone and you are correct.
Most all universities require the written part of SAT now.
You have to construct a coherent sentence and comprehend the rules of grammar to make a half decent score on that.
All 3 of my kids went to public schools, 2 have graduated from universities now working and my youngest is a sophomore in college now. We do not see what you speak of in any way with the kids we know that attend college.
Where do you get your information?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm not sure you could say most of the professors teaching in college are smart.

Touche' on the zinger.

Even so, college is not the higher learning it once was. Many incoming freshmen cannot construct a coherent sentence and don't comprehend the rules of grammar.

One of your previous posts you claimed it was "most".
Now you claim it is "many".
Community colleges take anyone and you are correct.
Most all universities require the written part of SAT now.
You have to construct a coherent sentence and comprehend the rules of grammar to make a half decent score on that.
All 3 of my kids went to public schools, 2 have graduated from universities now working and my youngest is a sophomore in college now. We do not see what you speak of in any way with the kids we know that attend college.
Where do you get your information?

Do you understand the difference between "many incoming freshmen" and "most high school graduates?" Do you understand that, even though they overlap, they are not identical?