We don't need no stinkin Dept of Education!

[Unkotare]

If the majority of public HS grads are not prepared for college then are not most of them undereducated??

LOL! Still trying to dig your way out of that hole, champ?


Have you now changed the definition of 'educated' to 'prepared for college'? And where did "almost all" go? You seem to be lowering the bar in a desperate attempt to salvage your ill-considered declaration.

No, it's not going well for you at all.

It's going way better for me than for a recent graduate of our so called education system..

It doesn't appear that way.

 

[Unkotare]

Most of the smart kids go to college, not enlist in the military.

Most of the kids in college, aren't smart; not by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not sure you could say most of the professors teaching in college are smart.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Can''t think of any where in the constitution that gives the Federal Government any control over education. I believe that should be up to the individual State....

let me help, ollie... it's not up to the individual states because a) there's no reason to; and b) the states can't be trusted on their own. on their own, some of them like teaching creationism as science....

which is why there are national standards.

as for what permits things like the department of education, i'll refer you to the constitution's general welfare clause. it's bad for the country to have a bunch of undereducated or miseducated people running around.

Believe it or not, the DOE does not care if you teach creationism. The courts, however take a dim view of it, which is why it was ruled unconstitutional before the DOE even existed.

Can you tell me how the general welfare clause, which is about taxes, can be used to justify the DOE? I would love to see you do that without resorting to a logical fallacy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Can''t think of any where in the constitution that gives the Federal Government any control over education. I believe that should be up to the individual State....

let me help, ollie... it's not up to the individual states because a) there's no reason to; and b) the states can't be trusted on their own. on their own, some of them like teaching creationism as science....

which is why there are national standards.

as for what permits things like the department of education, i'll refer you to the constitution's general welfare clause. it's bad for the country to have a bunch of undereducated or miseducated people running around.

I trust the State much more than the last 32 years of the Fed sticking their noses into Education. And I trust the village even more than the state......

And yes the Department of Education is only 32 years old. I graduated HS before it came into being. And I can read and spell and count and all kinds of neat things.

You trying to make me feel old?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You really didn't answer my question the way it was asked, did you?

High School Remedial Courses - Are you prepared for college-level work?

40% of high school grads need to take at least one remedial course to prepare for college

Sounds pretty much like an undereducated bunch to me. Add in those that do not go to college and the percentage is bound to be significantly higher.

Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, does 40% = "almost all"? Maybe you are among the "undereducated"?

Did you get the part of college students? What percentage of high school graduates go to college? The last time I looked at the stats only about 10% of high school students take the SAT. If 40% of that 10% need remedial courses, what percentage of the rest do you think need those courses?

 

[Unkotare]

High School Remedial Courses - Are you prepared for college-level work?

40% of high school grads need to take at least one remedial course to prepare for college

Sounds pretty much like an undereducated bunch to me. Add in those that do not go to college and the percentage is bound to be significantly higher.

Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, does 40% = "almost all"? Maybe you are among the "undereducated"?

Did you get the part of college students? What percentage of high school graduates go to college? The last time I looked at the stats only about 10% of high school students take the SAT. If 40% of that 10% need remedial courses, what percentage of the rest do you think need those courses?

You tell me. Gimme a link or something.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, does 40% = "almost all"? Maybe you are among the "undereducated"?

Did you get the part of college students? What percentage of high school graduates go to college? The last time I looked at the stats only about 10% of high school students take the SAT. If 40% of that 10% need remedial courses, what percentage of the rest do you think need those courses?

You tell me. Gimme a link or something.

To what, exactly? The ability to reason? You cannot get that on the internet.

 

[Unkotare]

You can either prove the claim or you can't. You mentioned the ability to reason? Here's your chance.

 

[Gadawg73]

Most of the smart kids go to college, not enlist in the military.

Most of the kids in college, aren't smart; not by any stretch of the imagination.

Sad that you have a negative opinion of our youth.
As someone that has worked with youth for 40 years I disagree 100% with your opinion.
Most of the young adults in college are very smart.

 

[flacaltenn]

Bachmann: Why do we need a Department of Education, anyway? « Hot Air

Or so it seems.

Painting herself as a “constitutional conservative” Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann told Sen. Jim DeMint’s forum Monday that if elected president she would look to get rid of the Department of Education, among other things.

Well -- If you don't want the Feds to define "minimum education standards" and you don't them to mandate TESTING to determine the demographics and extent of the problems -- then they have NO ROLE TO PLAY -- do they lefties?

Under those lefty rules --- SHUT THEM DOWN..

THey serve no use other than to interfere with the better judgement of the people fighting in the pits to save failing public schools and forcing $1.50 in compliance costs for every $2.00 they send out..

 

[SFC Ollie]

Most of the smart kids go to college, not enlist in the military.

Most perhaps, but your statement seems to infer that the military is void of intellectuals. On the contrary, all officers have college educations and the enlisted men obtain a lot of skilled training in the military that can be applied to the private sector when they exit. They also tend to be more disciplined. I would consider a job applicant with a military background a bit higher over someone with just a college degree.

Not only that, but if you want to get promoted in the military you must show that you are continuing your civilian education. Most people have a college degree before reaching the rank of E6.

 

[NGSamson]

Bachmann: Why do we need a Department of Education, anyway? « Hot Air

Or so it seems.

Painting herself as a “constitutional conservative” Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann told Sen. Jim DeMint’s forum Monday that if elected president she would look to get rid of the Department of Education, among other things.

yes... because it's so much easier to teach religion as science when you do away with standards.

That was a chicken shit statement . You do know that they teach evolution in catholic, baptist, or "name your religion" schools right ? And 9 times out of 10 the private school kids have it down better then public school kids right ? The Department Of Education is a failure. They have no reason to exist.

 

[flacaltenn]

Bachmann: Why do we need a Department of Education, anyway? « Hot Air

Or so it seems.

yes... because it's so much easier to teach religion as science when you do away with standards.

That was a chicken shit statement . You do know that they teach evolution in catholic, baptist, or "name your religion" schools right ? And 9 times out of 10 the private school kids have it down better then public school kids right ? The Department Of Education is a failure. They have no reason to exist.

Not only should Jillian be nailed on that factoid NGSampson -- but isn't it the lefty teacher unions SCREAMING about having to teach to STANDARDS in order for their kids to pass National Testing?

THat's pretty inconsistent -- even by lefty standards.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You can either prove the claim or you can't. You mentioned the ability to reason? Here's your chance.

One in four is 25%

three in four is 75%

If 75% of grads are not educated to a sufficient level for freshman college courses, which are really no harder than high school courses, then 75% of grads are undereducated meaning they do not have a grasp of basic skills.

If you lost 75% of everything you had would you not say you lost almost everything?

 

[editec]

Bachmann: Why do we need a Department of Education, anyway? « Hot Air

Or so it seems.

Painting herself as a “constitutional conservative” Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann told Sen. Jim DeMint’s forum Monday that if elected president she would look to get rid of the Department of Education, among other things.

Remind me again...what PARTY pushed the FEDERALIZATION of US education with the most FEDERALIZED EDUCATIONAL program in US history?

Oh yeah, I remember the REpublicans did...and that program is called NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND.

Well, I'm happy to see that the GOP is finally aware of what a disaster THAT plan was.

Welcome to the fold, along with most of this nation's educators who understand how stupid that FEDERALIZED TESTING system really is.

 

[jillian]

yes... because it's so much easier to teach religion as science when you do away with standards.

That was a chicken shit statement . You do know that they teach evolution in catholic, baptist, or "name your religion" schools right ? And 9 times out of 10 the private school kids have it down better then public school kids right ? The Department Of Education is a failure. They have no reason to exist.

Not only should Jillian be nailed on that factoid NGSampson -- but isn't it the lefty teacher unions SCREAMING about having to teach to STANDARDS in order for their kids to pass National Testing?

THat's pretty inconsistent -- even by lefty standards.

so he's lying and saying that rightwingnuts don't want to teach creationism as science and making up lies about catholic schools doing better at teaching science than public schools and you high five him.

now THAT is funny. are you the same person?

*shrug*

 

[Unkotare]

You can either prove the claim or you can't. You mentioned the ability to reason? Here's your chance.

One in four is 25%

three in four is 75%

If 75% of grads are not educated to a sufficient level for freshman college courses, which are really no harder than high school courses, then 75% of grads are undereducated meaning they do not have a grasp of basic skills.

If you lost 75% of everything you had would you not say you lost almost everything?

So, 'not prepared for college' is "undereducated" for a high school grad now? Is that the standard? When was that established as the standard which all high school education must achieve? Got a link for that?

 

[Skull Pilot]

You can either prove the claim or you can't. You mentioned the ability to reason? Here's your chance.

One in four is 25%

three in four is 75%

If 75% of grads are not educated to a sufficient level for freshman college courses, which are really no harder than high school courses, then 75% of grads are undereducated meaning they do not have a grasp of basic skills.

If you lost 75% of everything you had would you not say you lost almost everything?

So, 'not prepared for college' is "undereducated" for a high school grad now? Is that the standard? When was that established as the standard which all high school education must achieve? Got a link for that?

I defined the standards for undereducated in my first post as being unable to write well, unable to perform simple arithmetic sans calculator and a lack of knowledge of history and geography.

If those preparing for college do not possess these skills, it is reasonable to assume that those not preparing for college also lack these skills.

And my own experience in dealing with so called educated high school grads has proven to me that they indeed unable to perform the basic skills listed above.

So I stand by my description of almost all HS grads being undereducated.

 

[Gadawg73]

Most of the smart kids go to college, not enlist in the military.

Most perhaps, but your statement seems to infer that the military is void of intellectuals. On the contrary, all officers have college educations and the enlisted men obtain a lot of skilled training in the military that can be applied to the private sector when they exit. They also tend to be more disciplined. I would consider a job applicant with a military background a bit higher over someone with just a college degree.

"seems to infer"
You are the one that is inferring, not me. I never stated that only dumb and stupid kids enlist in the military.
My father was a Marine officer after having graduated in 1942 from college. He earned his Masters and PHD at Cornell in 1948 in the Marine reserves. He retired in 1954 right before I was born in Jacksonville, NC. at Camp Lejeune.
I am sorry I did not make myself clear. I should have stated "smarter".
Most of the smarter kids go to college first and if they are interested in the military they join afterwards. The recruiters encourage the smarter kids to finish their college first. And the military is most interested in recruiting those graduates as both my sons were heavily recruited in college with my full support. I told them both it was a great oppurtunity. My youngest is still considering it.
I agree with all of your post. You will not find a more passioned supporter of the military and those that serve than me. In fact, I believe the skills one learns in the military, many in the vocational area, are more in demand than a college degree!
Fact is, and no disrespect to the anyone in the military, most of those that enlist in the military do not go to college because their grades were not as good in high school as the other kids that plan for college.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I'm not sure you could say most of the professors teaching in college are smart.

Touche' on the zinger.

Even so, college is not the higher learning it once was. Many incoming freshmen cannot construct a coherent sentence and don't comprehend the rules of grammar.