Was Jefferson or Lincoln first Republican??

[EdwardBaiamonte]

OK for the sixth time why are you so afraid to tell us what Jefferson and Madison formed the Republican Party to stand for??

Why can't you understand two different parties and the names changed over the damn years?

The Republican Party you are writing about are today Democratic Party and the GOP you vote for are from the WHIG party!

Did you know they took the name and are not the same damn political party?

The name of Jefferson's party was the Republican Party Jeffersons republican party stood for freedom from liberal central government. This is identical to the modern party In name and philosophy 1+1 = 2

Holy Shit!

Are you fucking kidding me with your stupidity!

The Tea Party are the same people from Boston?

Editing someone responses to fit your agenda?

Go fuck yourself!

translation I lost that debate and I'm running away angry

 

[Picaro]

Moreover, Jefferson and Madison were themselves Liberals. They would not have been angling for "freedom from" what they had just got done creating with the Constitution.

Nonsense. Liberals today believe in the opposite of what Jefferson stood for. It's dishonest to try to portray him as a modern day liberal, especially since freedom from big mother government is what the revolution was all about.

Yes, and it's also nonsense for today's conservatives to claim he would believe what a lot of their beliefs are, too. the terms don't mean the same today as the did then in either case.

Actually since the days of Plato and Aristotle the issue has always been freedom versus government so that issue is still the issue we face today and the issue we will always face. I assume you understand now that Republicans since Jefferson have stood for freedom and other parties, especially the modern Democrat party which spied for Stalin gave him the bottom and voted for Obama

Semantic rubbish. neither Jefferson nor Madison were 'republican' in the sense you use the term, and that isn't going to change just because you invent more dissembling 'talking points'. Throwing in such nonsense gives a false meaning to what 'freedom' meant to them and their class.

Your stupid conspiracy theory crap doesn't help you either.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Why can't you understand two different parties and the names changed over the damn years?

The Republican Party you are writing about are today Democratic Party and the GOP you vote for are from the WHIG party!

Did you know they took the name and are not the same damn political party?

The name of Jefferson's party was the Republican Party Jeffersons republican party stood for freedom from liberal central government. This is identical to the modern party In name and philosophy 1+1 = 2

Holy Shit!

Are you fucking kidding me with your stupidity!

So today Minute Men are the same Minute Men from Jefferson days?

The Tea Party are the same people from Boston?

I mean 1+1= 2 according to you!

No, the Republican Party of Jefferson day became the Democratic Party. During Jackson days they were more Conservative and less about big spending. The GOP of today are from WHIGS and have more roots to the Know Nothing political movement that split from the Republican party that Lincoln was part of!

You trying to claim today GOP are from Jefferson Republican party is just pathetic even for you!

So then why are you so afraid to tell us what Jeffersons Republican party was founded to stand for and what the modern Republican Party stands for

So you are a Know Nothing Southern voter that came from the Democratic Party!

Jefferson Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats and not today GOP!

Actually the issue here is not whether Jeffersonian Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats but whether they eventually became modern Republicans who stand for exactly the same thing at that Jefferson and Madison stood for when they founded the Republican Party now certainly this is clear to you?

If you voted for Trump then you are a Lincoln Republican and not Jefferson Republican. You would have not voted for Trump nor Clinton if you were a Jefferson type!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The name of Jefferson's party was the Republican Party Jeffersons republican party stood for freedom from liberal central government. This is identical to the modern party In name and philosophy 1+1 = 2

Holy Shit!

Are you fucking kidding me with your stupidity!

So today Minute Men are the same Minute Men from Jefferson days?

The Tea Party are the same people from Boston?

I mean 1+1= 2 according to you!

No, the Republican Party of Jefferson day became the Democratic Party. During Jackson days they were more Conservative and less about big spending. The GOP of today are from WHIGS and have more roots to the Know Nothing political movement that split from the Republican party that Lincoln was part of!

You trying to claim today GOP are from Jefferson Republican party is just pathetic even for you!

So then why are you so afraid to tell us what Jeffersons Republican party was founded to stand for and what the modern Republican Party stands for

So you are a Know Nothing Southern voter that came from the Democratic Party!

Jefferson Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats and not today GOP!

Actually the issue here is not whether Jeffersonian Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats but whether they eventually became mattered Republicans who stand for exactly the same thing at Jefferson and Madison stood for when they founded the Republican Party now certainly this is clear to you?

No!

Reason?

Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr. and Trump are big spending Lincoln types!

but more importantly the party in general is much much more conservative fiscally thanand Democrats who make no attempt to be conservative ficsally having for example voted down all 30 balance budget amendments and opposed every government shutdown and supported every debt ceiling increase.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Why can't you understand two different parties and the names changed over the damn years?

The Republican Party you are writing about are today Democratic Party and the GOP you vote for are from the WHIG party!

Did you know they took the name and are not the same damn political party?

The name of Jefferson's party was the Republican Party Jeffersons republican party stood for freedom from liberal central government. This is identical to the modern party In name and philosophy 1+1 = 2

Holy Shit!

Are you fucking kidding me with your stupidity!

The Tea Party are the same people from Boston?

Editing someone responses to fit your agenda?

Go fuck yourself!

translation I lost that debate and I'm running away angry

No, you edited my response to you so you could play your trolling games.

If you voted for Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr. or Trump then you are not Conservative nor a true Jefferson type!

Does that help you little Lincoln Progressive that love big government waste?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The name of Jefferson's party was the Republican Party Jeffersons republican party stood for freedom from liberal central government. This is identical to the modern party In name and philosophy 1+1 = 2

Holy Shit!

Are you fucking kidding me with your stupidity!

So today Minute Men are the same Minute Men from Jefferson days?

The Tea Party are the same people from Boston?

I mean 1+1= 2 according to you!

No, the Republican Party of Jefferson day became the Democratic Party. During Jackson days they were more Conservative and less about big spending. The GOP of today are from WHIGS and have more roots to the Know Nothing political movement that split from the Republican party that Lincoln was part of!

You trying to claim today GOP are from Jefferson Republican party is just pathetic even for you!

So then why are you so afraid to tell us what Jeffersons Republican party was founded to stand for and what the modern Republican Party stands for

So you are a Know Nothing Southern voter that came from the Democratic Party!

Jefferson Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats and not today GOP!

Actually the issue here is not whether Jeffersonian Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats but whether they eventually became modern Republicans who stand for exactly the same thing at that Jefferson and Madison stood for when they founded the Republican Party now certainly this is clear to you?

If you voted for Trump then you are a Lincoln Republican and not Jefferson Republican. You would have not voted for Trump nor Clinton if you were a Jefferson type!

Trump was a no-brainer for conservatives based on the wall the Supreme Court and repeal of Obamacareand of course tax and regulation cats

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The name of Jefferson's party was the Republican Party Jeffersons republican party stood for freedom from liberal central government. This is identical to the modern party In name and philosophy 1+1 = 2

Holy Shit!

Are you fucking kidding me with your stupidity!

The Tea Party are the same people from Boston?

Editing someone responses to fit your agenda?

Go fuck yourself!

translation I lost that debate and I'm running away angry

No, you edited my response to you so you could play your trolling games.

If you voted for Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr. or Trump then you are not Conservative nor a true Jefferson type!

Does that help you little Lincoln Progressive that love big government waste?

Someone who supports freedom from big liberal government has Jefferson and Madison did and as Aristotle did does not need to play trolling games. Do you understand

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Holy Shit!

Are you fucking kidding me with your stupidity!

So today Minute Men are the same Minute Men from Jefferson days?

The Tea Party are the same people from Boston?

I mean 1+1= 2 according to you!

No, the Republican Party of Jefferson day became the Democratic Party. During Jackson days they were more Conservative and less about big spending. The GOP of today are from WHIGS and have more roots to the Know Nothing political movement that split from the Republican party that Lincoln was part of!

You trying to claim today GOP are from Jefferson Republican party is just pathetic even for you!

So then why are you so afraid to tell us what Jeffersons Republican party was founded to stand for and what the modern Republican Party stands for

So you are a Know Nothing Southern voter that came from the Democratic Party!

Jefferson Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats and not today GOP!

Actually the issue here is not whether Jeffersonian Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats but whether they eventually became mattered Republicans who stand for exactly the same thing at Jefferson and Madison stood for when they founded the Republican Party now certainly this is clear to you?

No!

Reason?

Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr. and Trump are big spending Lincoln types!

but more importantly the party in general is much much more conservative fiscally thanand Democrats who make no attempt to be conservative ficsally having for example voted down all 30 balance budget amendments and opposed every government shutdown and supported every debt ceiling increase.

Reagan drove up the national debt!

Bush Sr. and Jr. did the same!

Trump is doing the same!

So no they are not trying to do anything except in election years to convince mental midgets like you they are better than today democratic party!

Hell Ryancare should have told you where Trump and Ryan are at on the issue of Fiscal Conservative and Trump infrastructure plan is living proof you love big spending government. McCain, Collins, and other Republicans are elected by morons like you because they are Republican and they are not Conservative at all!

SO again today Republicans are more like Lincoln with loving war, big spending and using the government to force their social issues down everyone throats and you claim you are nothing like the Democrats of today!

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Holy Shit!

Are you fucking kidding me with your stupidity!

So today Minute Men are the same Minute Men from Jefferson days?

The Tea Party are the same people from Boston?

I mean 1+1= 2 according to you!

No, the Republican Party of Jefferson day became the Democratic Party. During Jackson days they were more Conservative and less about big spending. The GOP of today are from WHIGS and have more roots to the Know Nothing political movement that split from the Republican party that Lincoln was part of!

You trying to claim today GOP are from Jefferson Republican party is just pathetic even for you!

So then why are you so afraid to tell us what Jeffersons Republican party was founded to stand for and what the modern Republican Party stands for

So you are a Know Nothing Southern voter that came from the Democratic Party!

Jefferson Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats and not today GOP!

Actually the issue here is not whether Jeffersonian Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats but whether they eventually became modern Republicans who stand for exactly the same thing at that Jefferson and Madison stood for when they founded the Republican Party now certainly this is clear to you?

If you voted for Trump then you are a Lincoln Republican and not Jefferson Republican. You would have not voted for Trump nor Clinton if you were a Jefferson type!

Trump was a no-brainer for conservatives based on the wall the Supreme Court and repeal of Obamacareand of course tax and regulation cats

Repeal and replace the ACA with Ryancare that Trump supported?

What a true Fiscal Conservative you are and his USSC pick is a moderate and will not change a damn thing that has been already ruled on and that includes Abortion or Gay Marriage and Trump is Progressive as can be so stop lying!

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Holy Shit!

Are you fucking kidding me with your stupidity!

The Tea Party are the same people from Boston?

Editing someone responses to fit your agenda?

Go fuck yourself!

translation I lost that debate and I'm running away angry

No, you edited my response to you so you could play your trolling games.

If you voted for Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr. or Trump then you are not Conservative nor a true Jefferson type!

Does that help you little Lincoln Progressive that love big government waste?

Someone who supports freedom from big liberal government has Jefferson and Madison did and as Aristotle did does not need to play trolling games. Do you understand

You do not believe the same as Jefferson because if you did you would have not voted for Trump that is another Lincoln and Nixon!

 

[Picaro]

Trump never ran as a conservative, and nobody voted for him because they thought he was. The Silly Train is still stuck in the station ...

He's a moderate centrist, and it was never a Big Secret.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Trump never ran as a conservative, and nobody voted for him because they thought he was. The Silly Train is still stuck in the station ...

He's a moderate centrist, and it was never a Big Secret.

Trump was a no-brainer for conservatives based on the wall the Supreme Court repeal of Obamacare and tax and regulation cuts 1+1 = 2

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Moreover, Jefferson and Madison were themselves Liberals. They would not have been angling for "freedom from" what they had just got done creating with the Constitution.

Nonsense. Liberals today believe in the opposite of what Jefferson stood for. It's dishonest to try to portray him as a modern day liberal, especially since freedom from big mother government is what the revolution was all about.

Yes, and it's also nonsense for today's conservatives to claim he would believe what a lot of their beliefs are, too. the terms don't mean the same today as the did then in either case.

Actually since the days of Plato and Aristotle the issue has always been freedom versus government so that issue is still the issue we face today and the issue we will always face. I assume you understand now that Republicans since Jefferson have stood for freedom and other parties, especially the modern Democrat party which spied for Stalin gave him the bottom and voted for Obama

Semantic rubbish. neither Jefferson nor Madison were 'republican' in the sense you use the term, and that isn't going to change just because you invent more dissembling 'talking points'. Throwing in such nonsense gives a false meaning to what 'freedom' meant to them and their class.

Your stupid conspiracy theory crap doesn't help you either.

If so why are you so afraid to tell us what Jefferson and Madison founded the Republican Party in 1792 to stand for if not for freedom from big liberal government exactly what modern Republicans stand for and exactly what modern Democrats oppose

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The name of Jefferson's party was the Republican Party Jeffersons republican party stood for freedom from liberal central government. This is identical to the modern party In name and philosophy 1+1 = 2

Holy Shit!

Are you fucking kidding me with your stupidity!

So today Minute Men are the same Minute Men from Jefferson days?

The Tea Party are the same people from Boston?

I mean 1+1= 2 according to you!

No, the Republican Party of Jefferson day became the Democratic Party. During Jackson days they were more Conservative and less about big spending. The GOP of today are from WHIGS and have more roots to the Know Nothing political movement that split from the Republican party that Lincoln was part of!

You trying to claim today GOP are from Jefferson Republican party is just pathetic even for you!

So then why are you so afraid to tell us what Jeffersons Republican party was founded to stand for and what the modern Republican Party stands for

So you are a Know Nothing Southern voter that came from the Democratic Party!

Jefferson Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats and not today GOP!

Actually the issue here is not whether Jeffersonian Republicans became Andrew Jackson Democrats but whether they eventually became mattered Republicans who stand for exactly the same thing at Jefferson and Madison stood for when they founded the Republican Party now certainly this is clear to you?

No!

Reason?

Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr. and Trump are big spending Lincoln types!

Of course that's child like at best given the presidents aren't spenders because presidents don't control the government if Republicans control the government you have a balance budget amendment that would be in place and debt would be illegal if Newts balanced budget amendment had passed a debt today would be zero dollars rather than $20 trillion let's review: Republicans have introduced 30 balance budget amendments all of which were killed by Democrats Democrats have introduced zero balance budget amendments. Do you know why?

 

[Mr Natural]

If so why are you so afraid to tell us what Jefferson and Madison founded the Republican Party in 1792 to stand for if not for freedom from big liberal government exactly what modern Republicans stand for and exactly what modern Democrats oppose

Tell that to the farmers in western Pennsylvania in 1794.

 

[Pogo]

Trump was a no-brainer

Yeah, still is.

 

[Pogo]

If Lincoln was the first republican what was Jefferson???

Different political party!

The GOP that Lincoln ran on is the same one that Progressive Donald John Trump ran on and not the one that Jefferson ran on!

So then why not tell us the name of the party at Jefferson formed and what that party stood forwhen you know that he will know the purpose of the American revolution and the basic principle of your country

I did and provided links. It is you playing as if the name of Jefferson political party is the same as today GOP!

The thing is today GOP has a lot of know nothing supporters which left the Democratic Party when Johnson chased you from the party!

It is you that can not understand the reality is the Democratic party came from Jefferson Republican Party and not today GOP!

You are a Know Nothing WHIG!

How is being a modern Republican being a no nothing if Modern Republicans stand for limited government exactly as Jefferson and Madison did when they formed the Republican Party.

Know Nothing Political Movement!

Look them up and learn something new!

You even writing No Nothing show me you are just playing stupid and trying to twist history to support your opinion on something. Democrats like Andrew Jackson were Conservative in their day and Lincoln was Progressive. Times change and voters move from one political party to the next. The Jefferson Republican party are not today GOP but today GOP are more like the Know Nothing Political Movement that split from the Republican Party!

The Know Nothings came and went before the contemporary Republican Party but in their obstinate nativist xenophobia and thuggery yes they were very much a precursor of both Donald T. Rump and the Klan, who both exploit the same divisive paranoiae. Coincidentally they called themselves (at first) the American Republican Party, but that was 1843, nine years before the Republican Party (of today) was founded, some twenty -eight years after Thomas Jefferson was already dead. The Know Nothings collapsed about the same time.

And yet --- they are not unrelated in origins....:

>> By 1854, when the activists allied with a rump faction of the Whig Party to run a slate of candidates on an anti-immigration platform, they were labeled the “Know-Nothing Party.”

(get that? "A rump faction". I didn't even write that, although I wish I did.... )
The following year, the Know-Nothings officially dubbed themselves the American Party. In 1856 they met in Philadelphia to pick a future president [candidate]. That process didn’t go well. Millard Fillmore was chosen as the party standard-bearer (he would carry just one state in November: Maryland), but the seeds for the Know-Nothing’s demise were planted at their own convention.

A wing of Southerners moved to pass a platform plank calling for the preservation of slavery. This alarmed many Northern and Midwestern Know-Nothings, who bolted to another newly formed political entity: The Republican Party. << --- Immigration and the Rise and Fall of the Know Nothing Party​

Parallels between Rump and the Know-Nothings have been noted throughout the last campaign. In the 1850s for the Know Nothings.the xenophobia target was Irish and German immigrants geographically, and Catholics religiously. In 2016 for Rump it was Mexicans geographically and Muslims religiously. Same shit, different century. Con artists trying to exploit irrational public fears for their own self-serving gain. We saw this movie before and continue to not-learn from it.

• Is Rump Changing the GOP Into the Know-Nothing Party?
• Rump Isn't a Fascist, He's a Media-Savvy Know-Nothing
  
• Rump Isn't the First Know-Nothing to Capture American Hearts

 

[Picaro]

Moreover, Jefferson and Madison were themselves Liberals. They would not have been angling for "freedom from" what they had just got done creating with the Constitution.

Nonsense. Liberals today believe in the opposite of what Jefferson stood for. It's dishonest to try to portray him as a modern day liberal, especially since freedom from big mother government is what the revolution was all about.

Yes, and it's also nonsense for today's conservatives to claim he would believe what a lot of their beliefs are, too. the terms don't mean the same today as the did then in either case.

Actually since the days of Plato and Aristotle the issue has always been freedom versus government so that issue is still the issue we face today and the issue we will always face. I assume you understand now that Republicans since Jefferson have stood for freedom and other parties, especially the modern Democrat party which spied for Stalin gave him the bottom and voted for Obama

Semantic rubbish. neither Jefferson nor Madison were 'republican' in the sense you use the term, and that isn't going to change just because you invent more dissembling 'talking points'. Throwing in such nonsense gives a false meaning to what 'freedom' meant to them and their class.

Your stupid conspiracy theory crap doesn't help you either.

If so why are you so afraid to tell us what Jefferson and Madison founded the Republican Party in 1792 to stand for if not for freedom from big liberal government exactly what modern Republicans stand for and exactly what modern Democrats oppose

Why would I be afraid? You're the one who doesn't know squat about either of them, nor do you have the first clue about original intent. You wouldn't understand the response at all. Making that big leap from the 1780's to modern Parties and thinking they're the same thing and the language is the same is the first and only clue anyone needs to know about you and your grasp of any of the subjects here.

 

[Pogo]

Moreover, Jefferson and Madison were themselves Liberals. They would not have been angling for "freedom from" what they had just got done creating with the Constitution.

Nonsense. Liberals today believe in the opposite of what Jefferson stood for. It's dishonest to try to portray him as a modern day liberal, especially since freedom from big mother government is what the revolution was all about.

Your inability to navigate what the word "Liberal" means is your problem, not mine. And the OP's as well -- he's even more clueless, trying to connect his Republican Party to a man who was already 28 years dead when it started.

I made no mention of contemporary Liberalism, nor what ignorant wags pervert it into. I referred to Jefferson an Madison --- who, with their cohorts, founded this country on the principles of Liberalism. PERIOD.

ERGO --- they would not have been starting a political party to undermine what they had just built. DUH.

 

[norwegen]

So then why did you fail to tell us what Jefferson did stand for and what modern Republicans stand for?

When did you fail in life?

Andrew Jackson was Conservative and Democrat and the only President to leave America Debt free!

Did you know that?

Lincoln was Progressive and Republican!

The GOP that is today is not the Republican Party Jefferson founded!

Jefferson party later became the Democratic Party and not today GOP!

Hell Jefferson left America in debt and you want to hitch your wagon to him?

why did you fail to tell us what Jefferson did stand for and what modern Republicans stand for?

He did?

So modern Republicans stand for leaving the Country with massive debt?

Never knew that how Progressive of you!

The GOP came from the WHIG Political Party and today GOP are from the Know Nothing Political movement and are nothing like Jefferson even though you have latched onto the idea that Republican must have came from the Jefferson Republican party which mean you are confessing that you are a Democrat that love wasteful spending and leaving national debt for the future to pay for like Jefferson did!

I would expect you to be more of a Jackson type of guy, but it seem you are a true blue dog after all, right?

So modern Republicans stand for leaving the Country with massive debt?

Exactly the opposite as a matter of fact which is why Republicans have tried 30 times since Jeffersons first try to make debt illegall in America to too bad the liberals killed every amendment is that simple enough for you to understand?

And yet Jackson left the country debt free, and Jefferson did not!

So try again and Democrats back them were more conservative than the WHIGS of that day.

A debt-reduction policy that the Congress passed after the War of 1812 is what paid down the debt. Jackson the Populist just happened to be president when it was settled.

Jefferson actually reduced the size of the Executive Branch after the Federalists had taken liberties with it.