Want to Keep Pot Illegal? Time to Justify...

[Book of Jeremiah]

What has stopped legalization is the experiences of millions of people who have suffered through their association with drug users including potheads. They vote.

I assume you're anti-drinking too, right (alcohol)? Would you be for a prohibition round #2?



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I'm against drinking for myself - smoking too - but I don't believe in prohibiting others from doing either. It is their own choice and should be left up to the individual.

 

[KevinWestern]

To me it is a matter of the government making money off the misery of others. It isn't my business what other people do in their own private lives. I don't believe pot smokers are endangering anyone. I cannot say the same for a drunk person because if they get behind the wheel of a car to drive they could kill someone. They don't legalize it because this is a big business to them.

It reminds me of the time I heard about a young person who was arrested for pot and was told by the police officer who arrested him he had better call a certain attorney to help him out. The attorney, the judge, all involved were crooked and cost the parents of the young man a fortune to get him out of the trouble. In the end, the boy was given probation and had to pay almost 5,000 dollars in fines. Society may look upon these liberal judges and lawyers as the heroes but I see them as greater criminals then the boy who was caught with the pot! I expect they will have to answer for it one day. I certainly hope they do. - Jeri

Very true.

Throwing an individual in jail results in a far greater cost to society than that individual enjoying some cannabis in his/her free time.

Costs are both in tax dollars (literally supporting someone 24/7) and other less-tangible/measurable factors such as kids growing up without dads, and dads getting out of prison and having difficulty finding a job because they were in prison, ect...

Anyways, I wish I could get this across to Katz...

For murderers, these costs are OK. We need to have those individuals off our streets. But for pot? Doesn't seem worth it.

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[Book of Jeremiah]

Kevin, let me correct myself in saying all liberals are against the legalization of marijuana. I must agree with you in hindsight it is according to the individual as there are people on both sides for and against. It is a contraversial issue.

Still I'm not flying blind here. I spent several years doing prison ministry and bible study by mail for an international ministry and can tell you that some of the young people I was ministering to didn't belong there. At all.

The emotional harm that was done to these young people by their time in prison was quite profound. There is one story I remember - I was grading bible study of a Texas inmate who had recently told me he had a new cell mate. He was in there for murder and was the size of a refrigorator. A real tough guy. Anyhow......his new cell mate ...... A young fellow - busted for pot in Texas - in fear for his physical safety. I told him you belong to Christ now - it is your duty to defend this young man! I put the fear of God into that guy so bad he finally did protect him. He actually thought he was supposed to stay clear of the matter and allow the young man to be raped! Oh! I was in rare form that day! I find it disgusting that these very same judges, lawyers, politicians make sure their own children will never see the inside of a prison cell. They buy their way out. It is despicable. - Jeri

 

[Katzndogz]

What has stopped legalization is the experiences of millions of people who have suffered through their association with drug users including potheads. They vote.

I assume you're anti-drinking too, right (alcohol)? Would you be for a prohibition round #2?



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Have you ever read about the history of the prohibition movement? Obviously not or you would know why there was such a movement in the first place. You would also know that every wild claim made by the prohibitionists actually came to pass. Right down to child alcoholics. In fact the reality is much worse than anything those early prohibitionists dreamed up. They never forsaw the highway carnage. So why knowing all that would we want to make things even worse with not only marijuana use but using marijuana and alcohol together. It doesn't make sense.

The majority of people who drink alcohol do not get drunk. Everyone who uses pot uses it to get high. It has no other purpose. For every person who gets drunk there will be another who gets high and another who gets both drunk and high. Whatever problems alcohol caused will be tripled. Only drug addicts will call that an improvement.

 

[hipaware]

Imagine all the tax dollars the US would get if weed was legal. We are missing out on a lot of money

 

[Katzndogz]

Imagine all the tax dollars the US would get if weed was legal. We are missing out on a lot of money

Colorado is trying that experiment right now with a 25% tax. Thereby ensuring that the cartels will still be able to make their millions selling illegal and tax free pot.

 

[ELITEofWarman8]

Exactly. Stop tossing people in jail for simple offenses and maybe we can save a lot of money prison wise. Anyone ever think of that?

 

[Katzndogz]

Exactly. Stop tossing people in jail for simple offenses and maybe we can save a lot of money prison wise. Anyone ever think of that?

Probably because most of them, if not all, today, aren't in prison for simple drug offenses but other offenses and drugs were just part of that. Then there are the "suspects". These are individuals who have committed a string of crimes and everyone knows it. They just can't get the evidence. Maybe witnesses have been intimidated. They get them on a drug offense and get them off the streets for at least a little while.

For the largest majority of simple drug offenses there's diversion, alternative sentencing, community service, rehab and counseling.

 

[FA_Q2]

Imagine all the tax dollars the US would get if weed was legal. We are missing out on a lot of money

Colorado is trying that experiment right now with a 25% tax. Thereby ensuring that the cartels will still be able to make their millions selling illegal and tax free pot.

Since we see cigarettes (with a tax FAR in excess of 25%) having a massive black market and cigarette cartels smuggling billions of dollars of cigarettes across the border and killing Americans every day…
Wait..

That actually is not happening. Go figure.

 

[MikeK]

Exactly. Stop tossing people in jail for simple offenses and maybe we can save a lot of money prison wise. Anyone ever think of that?

You've asked a good question, one which shows you're thinking. But consider the following:

Marijuana prohibition is beneficial to a significant segment of the Nation, mainly the prison business which happens to be the only remaining growth industry in America. Prison is big business today.

Next is the legal profession. Consider how many lawyers will go begging if marijuana is legalized.

Don't forget how many police officers at the federal, state, and local levels are engaged in marijuana prohibition

Another substantially developed new industry is the piss-testing business.

Tranquilizers are one of the most commonly prescribed drugs, which means their sales contribute significantly to the pharmaceutical industry's bottom line. But marijuana is Nature's tranquilizer -- and there is none better. If marijuana is made legal it won't be long before the drug industry will realize a major loss.

The booze industry contributes heavily to anti-marijuana organizations. Because if marijuana is legalized a substantial number of Americans who presently use alcohol to alter their consciousness will discover that marijuana is superior to booze in every way -- and it is comparatively harmless.

So there is a lot of pressure (and money) being applied to Congress to keep marijuana illegal. And the only hope we have of countering that pressure is public education, which eventually will influence voting.

 

[Swagger]

Let's be honest here. Most of the right-wing objection to the smoking of marijuana doesn't stem from the threat of psychosis after prolongued use or the threat of tax-free pot (which is ridiculous, as the majority of dope smokers will plump for convenience over cost). It threatens their traditional values/world view, and is the kind of thing they imagine black people do.

I'm a hard-right Conservative, but even I agree that the current marijuana laws in the West are ludicrous and are only in place to serve the interests of the alcohol and pharmaceutical industries.

 

[MikeK]

Let's be honest here. Most of the right-wing objection to the smoking of marijuana doesn't stem from the threat of psychosis after prolongued use or the threat of tax-free pot (which is ridiculous, as the majority of dope smokers will plump for convenience over cost). It threatens their traditional values/world view, and is the kind of thing they imagine black people do.

I'm a hard-right Conservative, but even I agree that the current marijuana laws in the West are ludicrous and are only in place to serve the interests of the alcohol and pharmaceutical industries.

Of course you're right about a percentage of more conservative Americans harboring what is colloquially referred to as the Reefer Madness mindset. But fortunately that mentality has substantially diminished and presently represents the lesser anti-marijuana disposition. In fact current polls reveal a 52 percent majority of Americans favor legalization. Survey: 52 percent of Americans in favor of legalizing marijuana - U.S. News

That level of public approval leaves one to conclude another factor is responsible for government's resistance to legalization. And if that factor isn't money, what else can it be?

 

[Katzndogz]

Imagine all the tax dollars the US would get if weed was legal. We are missing out on a lot of money

Colorado is trying that experiment right now with a 25% tax. Thereby ensuring that the cartels will still be able to make their millions selling illegal and tax free pot.

Since we see cigarettes (with a tax FAR in excess of 25%) having a massive black market and cigarette cartels smuggling billions of dollars of cigarettes across the border and killing Americans every day…
Wait..

That actually is not happening. Go figure.

There really is a black market in cigarettes. But there is a black market in almost everything. The difference with pot is the drug dealers are established. It will be nothing for a pothead to go back to the old reliable dealer when taxes get too high. Users think of dealers as friends as it is.

 

[Katzndogz]

Let's be honest here. Most of the right-wing objection to the smoking of marijuana doesn't stem from the threat of psychosis after prolongued use or the threat of tax-free pot (which is ridiculous, as the majority of dope smokers will plump for convenience over cost). It threatens their traditional values/world view, and is the kind of thing they imagine black people do.

I'm a hard-right Conservative, but even I agree that the current marijuana laws in the West are ludicrous and are only in place to serve the interests of the alcohol and pharmaceutical industries.

Of course you're right about a percentage of more conservative Americans harboring what is colloquially referred to as the Reefer Madness mindset. But fortunately that mentality has substantially diminished and presently represents the lesser anti-marijuana disposition. In fact current polls reveal a 52 percent majority of Americans favor legalization. Survey: 52 percent of Americans in favor of legalizing marijuana - U.S. News

That level of public approval leaves one to conclude another factor is responsible for government's resistance to legalization. And if that factor isn't money, what else can it be?

It isn't at all surprising that a substantial part of the public are dysfunctional drug addicts. That's how obama got reelected. It will last until non users get tired of putting up with addicts. The same way they got tired of putting up with drunks.

 

[KevinWestern]

There really is a black market in cigarettes. But there is a black market in almost everything. The difference with pot is the drug dealers are established. It will be nothing for a pothead to go back to the old reliable dealer when taxes get too high. Users think of dealers as friends as it is.

There will be no dealers to go back to, as the cartel's revenue streams will be destroyed and the entire system - the infrastructure - will be disbanded.

Again, this will be just like when prohibition of Alcohol was repealed.

QUESTION: How many people do you know buy alcohol from a black market dealer, illegally? Taxes are sky high here in the city for beer and wine, yet I know not a SINGLE person who gets their alcohol from an illegal source.

Why is that?


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[KevinWestern]

Imagine all the tax dollars the US would get if weed was legal. We are missing out on a lot of money

Colorado is trying that experiment right now with a 25% tax. Thereby ensuring that the cartels will still be able to make their millions selling illegal and tax free pot.

Food for thought Katz...

"True legalization ought to drive the price way down by bringing modern cultivation and production methods to bear. In Canada, industrial hemp is grown for about $500 per acre. But that’s done on large farms, not small grow houses. With the application of modern efficient agribusiness methods, marijuana prices should be more like tea prices—closer to $3 an ounce of usable product than the current $300"

Colorado and Washington pot prices: What are the economics of partial marijuana legalization? - Slate Magazine




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[Mom]

The people against pot are always the ones who've never tried it.

 

[Katzndogz]

There really is a black market in cigarettes. But there is a black market in almost everything. The difference with pot is the drug dealers are established. It will be nothing for a pothead to go back to the old reliable dealer when taxes get too high. Users think of dealers as friends as it is.

There will be no dealers to go back to, as the cartel's revenue streams will be destroyed and the entire system - the infrastructure - will be disbanded.

Again, this will be just like when prohibition of Alcohol was repealed.

QUESTION: How many people do you know buy alcohol from a black market dealer, illegally? Taxes are sky high here in the city for beer and wine, yet I know not a SINGLE person who gets their alcohol from an illegal source.

Why is that?


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Oh please of course the dealers will still be in business. They'll be selling other drugs that are still illegal.

If you honestly think that the entire infrastructure of the drug cartels will be disbanded just because pot is made legal, then why didn't the end of prohibition end the organized crime networks of that day? Not only do we still have them, but there are more of them and they are all much stronger today than they were.

You aren't asking the right questions. There are certainly more people who drink today, there are also more methods to get that buzz. They don't need alcohol, they can take Sudafed, cough syrup. They can smoke pot. They can sniff glue, or paint thinner. Someone who wants to get drunk, rather than have a glass of wine with dinner, just finds other means. If there is a need for low cost and untaxed pot, that need will be met by the same people meeting it today.

 

[Katzndogz]

If the example of prohibition is really followed, that closet grow you have now will be as illegal as homemade brew. The difference will be, instead of being in alternative sentencing, the offender will be in federal prison for tax evasion.

If you get right down to it, the end of prohibition didn't work out all that well either as laws against alcohol are close to being as stringent as they were when prohibition was in effect. The examples are, alcohol after prohibition ended and cigarettes, both technically legal, but so many laws against them, they may as well be illegal.

So, you might say that the best way to keep pot illegal is to legalize it and then start passing laws restricting its use to the point where it may as well have stayed illegal.

 

[MaryL]

Why not legalize pot? America is going that way. Don’t get your panties in a wad, as they say. Actually, I see this the other way, Why re-legalize marijuana. Years ago, it was legal. It was hemp, loco weed. And it was just as acceptable to sell Thompson sub machine guns in the mail. Do we really need to rationalize the abuse of either? Guns and drugs, ya know. Why not legalize meth? Why not? Why not legalize fully automatic AK 47’s? All the rationalizations posted here, they can apply to just about anything.