Want to Keep Pot Illegal? Time to Justify...

[MikeK]

1. Marijuana policing is still going to cost billions.

Why? How much does beverage alcohol policing cost? If marijuana is as legally available as beverage alcohol the criminal stigma will be eliminated -- as it was with booze when Prohibition was repealed.

It is not legal to be stoned on most jobs, each accident requires a drug test, how much do you think that is going to cost?

If alcohol were illegal it wouldn't be legal to be drunk on most jobs either. Re: accidents: drug (and drunk) tests are required whether or not booze or marijuana use is legal. So this is an irrelevant issue.

That does not include the numbers of injuries or deaths from a person thinking they can perform their hazardous job, stoned.

Those who are inclined to misuse any mind-altering substance while performing a hazardous job will not be encouraged to do so by legal access. Such individuals are compulsive users and will pursue access whether their substance of choice is legally available or not. The same applies to those who are inclined to drive while impaired. They will do it whether their choice of drug is legal or not. The most effective deterrent to impaired driving is persistent public education.

The simple fact of this matter is anyone who presently is inclined to use marijuana has no difficulty obtaining it. So the assumption that marijuana legalization will cause large numbers of presently constrained individuals to rush right out and buy an ounce is predicated on Reefer Madness propaganda. At the present time, those who are not inclined to use marijuana will not change their mindset if it is made legal.

 

[MikeK]

Many of those people bargained their original violent crime down to "drug possession". There are very few people in prison for "using" marijuana.

While it's true that those convicted of possessing small amounts of marijuana are rarely sent to prison the fact remains the entire process, which involves police, prosecutor, judge, court personnel, probation officers, and clericals is very costly -- and the arrestee's life is ruined by the criminal record.

However, it simply isn't true that no one goes to prison for marijuana offenses.

(Excerpt)

It's a pretty large number, in the sense that, certainly, in the federal system, about one out of every six federal inmates is in federal prison for marijuana. That's a very large number. There are more people now in federal prison for marijuana offenses than for violent offenses. Out of the 1.1 million people in American prisons, the marijuana offenders are not the majority. But there are a lot of them. And certainly, at a time when there's a shortage of prison space and when murderers are serving on average about six years in prison, it seems absurd to have non-violent marijuana offenders locked up in those large numbers.

Interviews - Eric Schlosser | Busted - America's War On Marijuana | FRONTLINE | PBS

(Close)

 

[MikeK]

Legalizing marijuana will give more children access to marijuana at earlier ages.

Actually, the reverse is true. Marijuana presently is more accessible to children than beverage alcohol because it is illegal and schoolyard dealers are plentiful. But booze is restricted to adults and kids have a hard time obtaining it because availability is legal -- and controlled.

 

[Katzndogz]

In Colorado marijuana use by children went up almost immediately after it was legalized.

Drug Testing Company Sees Spike In Children Using Marijuana « CBS Denver

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (CBS4) – A drug testing company says it’s seeing a big spike in children using marijuana following the passage of Amendment 64.

The drug testing company, Conspire, says it’s now being called on a weekly basis to test students in one Colorado school district instead of monthly. It’s not just more students, but it appears they’re using pot more often.

The costs of legalization in Colorado have proven to vastly outweigh the financial benefits. Colorado considered repealing the law legalizing pot, but it failed because the illicit drug lobby finally has some political clout. That might change as the full detrimental effects of legalization gets felt.

 

[KevinWestern]

The costs of legalization in Colorado have proven to vastly outweigh the financial benefits. Colorado considered repealing the law legalizing pot, but it failed because the illicit drug lobby finally has some political clout. That might change as the full detrimental effects of legalization gets felt.

Costly how?

Let's do some math.

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[Katzndogz]

The costs of legalization in Colorado have proven to vastly outweigh the financial benefits. Colorado considered repealing the law legalizing pot, but it failed because the illicit drug lobby finally has some political clout. That might change as the full detrimental effects of legalization gets felt.

Costly how?

Let's do some math.

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I posted an article about it some time ago. The supposed financial benefit was far outweighed by just the costs of regulation aside from any other costs.

 

[FA_Q2]

Thanks for assuming I'm a heartless person. Ever for a moment considered that there may be other people on this forum besides you that have lost a loved one to cancer and would like to acknowledge their sympathy?




Lol, what? I work in completely unrelated industry. Really strange accusation.

By the turn of events, I can see that you're not ready for a serious, rational discussion on this issue..

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Do tell. Can you answer a simple question? If I am wrong, I can deal it. Marijuana is so trivial. Please. You profit from this? Simple little question.

Mary, you’re missing 70% of my argument; in fact, let’s not consider the economic value/profit at all – alright? We’ll move that argument aside.

What’s your take on the hundreds of millions we spend on (a) jailing people, (b) court costs, (c) police work?

In a time of great State and Federal deficits (and in a time when they’re thinking about cutting medicare, ect) do we really need to spend all of that money policing a drug that’s non-addictive, natural, and really doesn’t alter your state of being all that significantly (when compared to alcohol, cocaine, meth, crack, ect)? Shouldn’t we be pouring those $’s into things like education or healthcare?

And what about this take; justify why it's important to throw non-violent people in jail for doing a drug like marijuana, saturating space for the murders, rapists, child pornographers, ect.

We can't have it all. We have limited resources and limited tax dollars. I don't think marijuana deserves all the attention it's getting... that's my point.




.

It is more than this too. The cost to the government is minor compared to the fact that prison itself is VERY destructive to one’s life. It is far more so than the weed itself. There By jailing those that are smoking weed you are causing them more harm without cause.

 

[jon_berzerk]

how about meth or heroin

wont the cartel continue in that illegal drug trade

if pot became legal on a national level

if the goal is to end the cartel

those drugs also

must become legal

 

[Truthseeker420]

legalize it.

 

[jon_berzerk]

my question

is not to compare pot verses meth heroin or alcohol for that matter

but to question the validity that legalizing pot would

end the cartels

while so many other drugs remain illegal

 

[FA_Q2]

my question

is not to compare pot verses meth heroin or alcohol for that matter

but to question the validity that legalizing pot would

end the cartels

while so many other drugs remain illegal

You would need to legalize them all. That would be the best scenario. Pot alone however would alleviate most of the problems as that is one of the largest imported drug and the number one reason for the violence along the southern border.

 

[Fender]

my question

is not to compare pot verses meth heroin or alcohol for that matter

but to question the validity that legalizing pot would

end the cartels

while so many other drugs remain illegal

You would need to legalize them all. That would be the best scenario. Pot alone however would alleviate most of the problems as that is one of the largest imported drug and the number one reason for the violence along the southern border.

Legalizing pot would free up police resources (to fight real crimes), as well as prison cells. Plus, it's a new source of tax revenue, and an economic activity for growers and sellers.
You can buy a gun more easily then you can buy pot, which doesn't make any sense.

 

[jon_berzerk]

my question

is not to compare pot verses meth heroin or alcohol for that matter

but to question the validity that legalizing pot would

end the cartels

while so many other drugs remain illegal

You would need to legalize them all. That would be the best scenario. Pot alone however would alleviate most of the problems as that is one of the largest imported drug and the number one reason for the violence along the southern border.

yes

i see it as two separate issues

1- freeing up prisons

which is a good argument for legalizing pot

2- the cartels

as not as good argument for legalizing pot

which would continue to smuggle meth and cocaine and heroin

and remain as violent if not more violent in an a smaller drug market

personally i think all drugs should be legal

 

[jon_berzerk]

In Colorado marijuana use by children went up almost immediately after it was legalized.

Drug Testing Company Sees Spike In Children Using Marijuana « CBS Denver

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (CBS4) – A drug testing company says it’s seeing a big spike in children using marijuana following the passage of Amendment 64.

The drug testing company, Conspire, says it’s now being called on a weekly basis to test students in one Colorado school district instead of monthly. It’s not just more students, but it appears they’re using pot more often.

The costs of legalization in Colorado have proven to vastly outweigh the financial benefits. Colorado considered repealing the law legalizing pot, but it failed because the illicit drug lobby finally has some political clout. That might change as the full detrimental effects of legalization gets felt.

they really didnt do much testing back when i was in high school in the late 70s

and most of the kids i knew smoked weed

weed was pretty common

 

[FA_Q2]

my question

is not to compare pot verses meth heroin or alcohol for that matter

but to question the validity that legalizing pot would

end the cartels

while so many other drugs remain illegal

You would need to legalize them all. That would be the best scenario. Pot alone however would alleviate most of the problems as that is one of the largest imported drug and the number one reason for the violence along the southern border.

yes

i see it as two separate issues

1- freeing up prisons

which is a good argument for legalizing pot

2- the cartels

as not as good argument for legalizing pot

which would continue to smuggle meth and cocaine and heroin

and remain as violent if not more violent in an a smaller drug market

personally i think all drugs should be legal

Well, you hit a key there also. In a SMALLER market.

The market for hard drugs is far smaller and therefore less prevalent than pot. It would at least be a step forward.

 

[KevinWestern]

how about meth or heroin

wont the cartel continue in that illegal drug trade

if pot became legal on a national level

if the goal is to end the cartel

those drugs also

must become legal

Definitely a good point, but (correct me if you know I'm wrong), marijuana is one of their largest and most profitable products.

If - for instance - you tell a company that they will no longer be able to sell one of their best and most reliable products (literally in this case, a billion+ dollar brand), they without a doubt are going to take a pretty significant hit in revenue, which ultimately means less money for guns, less money to bribe officials, & less power overall.

Sure, they can't try to recoup some of those losses by ramping up heroin or cocaine, but the fact of the matter is that those are hard, dangerous drugs that much of the US population want nothing to do with for a number of very good reasons. There's only so much demand for those types of drugs.


.

 

[MikeK]

my question

is not to compare pot verses meth heroin or alcohol for that matter but to question the validity that legalizing pot would end the cartels while so many other drugs remain illegal

The idea that legalizing marijuana will put an end to the drug cartels derives from a misunderstanding.

Because marijuana presently is the second most commonly used recreational substance in America, second only to beverage alcohol, legalizing it logically will eliminate what are the most sizeable and active of the cartels. While those cartels which are engaged in importing and distributing other substances will remain active, what must be understood is the volume of illegal marijuana importation and distribution vastly exceeds that of all other illegal substances combined. Thus the misunderstanding.

 

[jon_berzerk]

how about meth or heroin

wont the cartel continue in that illegal drug trade

if pot became legal on a national level

if the goal is to end the cartel

those drugs also

must become legal

Definitely a good point, but (correct me if you know I'm wrong), marijuana is one of their largest and most profitable products.

If - for instance - you tell a company that they will no longer be able to sell one of their best and most reliable products (literally in this case, a billion+ dollar brand), they without a doubt are going to take a pretty significant hit in revenue, which ultimately means less money for guns, less money to bribe officials, & less power overall.

Sure, they can't try to recoup some of those losses by ramping up heroin or cocaine, but the fact of the matter is that those are hard, dangerous drugs that much of the US population want nothing to do with for a number of very good reasons. There's only so much demand for those types of drugs.


.

i thought i read that around 1/2 of their revenue comes from weed

and control between 70 to 90 percent of other drugs that enter the states

i agree many folks steer away from heroin and cocaine because of its dangers

and that is why i would say legalize them all and then it cuts off

pretty much all of the drug smuggling

that is of course if the government doesnt screw it up

by taxing it so much that it once again became cheaper

to have it sold on the black market


i seen today that Colorado made the news

with the senate passing new marijuana laws

licensing retail and production for recreational use

http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/cl...83C95E87257B1F005CDB59?Open&file=1317_rev.pdf

 

[shaferar]

This is a good question unfortunately I do not have the answer! I have never tried marijuana but seems safer than alcohol

 

[Katzndogz]

Do the costs of drug use outweigh the benefit of legalization?

Look at it this way, the societal costs of alcoholism far, far outweigh the benefits of alcohol consumption. Should we make it better or worse?

The problem is not whether pot should be legal or not. The problem is that so many people have a need to get through the day high.

Katz, I listed five huge negative consequences to pot prohibition, that IS a problem if those costs are not giving us any (at least equal) value in return.

I don't know about you, but I'd like to see the drug cartel's revenue stream cut in half. I'd like to see an end to all this violence. Is prohibition worth the costs?

Legalization won't reduce cartel revenue by a cent.