Want to Keep Pot Illegal? Time to Justify...

[Katzndogz]

Somehow, that reminds me of Dennis Hopper. He thought he was brilliant as an actor when he was high.
He just wasn't.


How did Hollywood hellraiser Dennis Hopper make it to the ripe age of 74? | Mail Online

Or, maybe the more contemporary Charlie Sheen. Remember WINNING. Except he wasn't.

Sad, sad, sad.

Lol, Charlie Sheen was pulling $48 million a year for doing one TV show. What's sad about him?


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The operative word being WAS. Even he admits that his drug binge ruined his career. He threw it all away. What's sad, is that somewhere in there is a truly talented man.

 

[KevinWestern]

Somehow, that reminds me of Dennis Hopper. He thought he was brilliant as an actor when he was high.
He just wasn't.


How did Hollywood hellraiser Dennis Hopper make it to the ripe age of 74? | Mail Online

Or, maybe the more contemporary Charlie Sheen. Remember WINNING. Except he wasn't.

Sad, sad, sad.

Lol, Charlie Sheen was pulling $48 million a year for doing one TV show. What's sad about him?


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The operative word being WAS. Even he admits that his drug binge ruined his career. He threw it all away. What's sad, is that somewhere in there is a truly talented man.

He wasn't doing any drugs during "two and a half..."?

And I thought this conversation was about pot; I don't think his low points were attributed to this drug - correct?

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[Katzndogz]

Lol, Charlie Sheen was pulling $48 million a year for doing one TV show. What's sad about him?


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The operative word being WAS. Even he admits that his drug binge ruined his career. He threw it all away. What's sad, is that somewhere in there is a truly talented man.

He wasn't doing any drugs during "two and a half..."?

And I thought this conversation was about pot; I don't think his low points were attributed to this drug - correct?

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Pot is its own failure. I don't mind potheads dying, I mind when they take innocent people with them. If potheads could be warehoused, give them all they want until their hearts stop. That's a solution.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Lol, Charlie Sheen was pulling $48 million a year for doing one TV show. What's sad about him?


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The operative word being WAS. Even he admits that his drug binge ruined his career. He threw it all away. What's sad, is that somewhere in there is a truly talented man.

He wasn't doing any drugs during "two and a half..."?

And I thought this conversation was about pot; I don't think his low points were attributed to this drug - correct?

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All destroyed because we have to destroy a person for smoking a fucking leaf. What a sick joke.

 

[MeadHallPirate]

Somehow, that reminds me of Dennis Hopper. He thought he was brilliant as an actor when he was high.
He just wasn't.

How did Hollywood hellraiser Dennis Hopper make it to the ripe age of 74? | Mail Online

Or, maybe the more contemporary Charlie Sheen. Remember WINNING. Except he wasn't.

Sad, sad, sad.

ahoy Katzndogz,

Dennis Hopper had a keen eye fer art, in addition to that, he acted, aye.

i don't know much 'bout Mr. Sheen, 'cept he was in some mighty films long ago.

as fer meself, i still make good monies. i just got weary 'o New York, lifted anchor and moved to the South. i earn a bit less, fer certain, but then again the cost 'o livin' in North Carolina makes me feel like i've moved to some foreign, devlopin'-world country.

all be well - i spend many a day utterly zooted with the wind at me back. i be a tax payin' citizen and i employ folks. a job creator, yarrrr!!!!!

*cheers*

- MeadHallPirate

 

[Katzndogz]

In a rare exhibition of sanity, the California Supreme Court ruled that cities may zone pot dispensaries out of existence.

California's high court upholds city bans of pot stores - latimes.com

 

[KevinWestern]

In a rare exhibition of sanity, the California Supreme Court ruled that cities may zone pot dispensaries out of existence.

California's high court upholds city bans of pot stores - latimes.com

Katz - Sanity would be not throwing people in jail for smoking a natural plant, and giving people an option of clean, regulated marijuana instead of the alternative - illegal, unregulated marijuana that may or may not be sprayed full of pesticides, ect.

I think you have your definitions mixed up.

You're a very tiring person, you know that?!

Lighten up a bit. Marijuana is at the 'least of our worries' list. We need to pour our law enforcement resources into things that actually save lives and benefit our country and the economy overall.



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[Katzndogz]

In a rare exhibition of sanity, the California Supreme Court ruled that cities may zone pot dispensaries out of existence.

California's high court upholds city bans of pot stores - latimes.com

Katz - Sanity would be not throwing people in jail for smoking a natural plant, and giving people an option of clean, regulated marijuana instead of the alternative - illegal, unregulated marijuana that may or may not be sprayed full of pesticides, ect.

I think you have your definitions mixed up.

You're a very tiring person, you know that?!

Lighten up a bit. Marijuana is at the 'least of our worries' list. We need to pour our law enforcement resources into things that actually save lives and benefit our country and the economy overall.



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You mean like putting pot users in jail for the crimes they commit while high? Yes. I agree with that. Marijuana should be and often is treated with lead dust, which is a very good thing.

 

[PaulS1950]

KevinWestern,
China used to allow the legal smoking of Opium until it nearly destroyed parts of the country. Opium is a natural plant too. I do understand the difference between the two; Opium is mildly addictive and very habit forming while Marijuana is not addictive and strongly haitual. Opium is a mind altering drug that induces a state of euphoria while Marijuana is a mind altering drug that has different effects on people at different times with the added side effect of a short term memory loss.
Both can be debilitating drugs that cause problems - to varying degrees - in those that use them regularly.
I do not believe that Marijuana is in any way as damaging as Opium but its effects on a society can be nearly as damaging.

 

[KevinWestern]

You mean like putting pot users in jail for the crimes they commit while high? Yes. I agree with that. Marijuana should be and often is treated with lead dust, which is a very good thing.

Oh man, Katz, you truly are an unreasonable person to debate with. No budge room, no listening to other's ideas, ect. It's a waste of time.

I'm for putting people in jail when they commit crimes (whether they're high or sober) - that's fine.

I'm not for putting people in jail for smoking a natural substance in the privacy of their own home - that's costly, wasteful, and breaks up families/destroys lives for no reason. You are a person who is for this, and I'm coming to the conclusion that we'll never see eye to eye.

Lead dust? First off, not only do I not believe this to be an actual issue, but if marijuana were legalized it wouldn't definitely not be an issue (would the FDA allow that??). I think that’s a pro-legalization argument you’re putting out there!

Anyways Katz… It really hasn’t been that much of a pleasure, but thanks for your input.


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[KevinWestern]

KevinWestern,
China used to allow the legal smoking of Opium until it nearly destroyed parts of the country. Opium is a natural plant too. I do understand the difference between the two; Opium is mildly addictive and very habit forming while Marijuana is not addictive and strongly haitual. Opium is a mind altering drug that induces a state of euphoria while Marijuana is a mind altering drug that has different effects on people at different times with the added side effect of a short term memory loss.
Both can be debilitating drugs that cause problems - to varying degrees - in those that use them regularly.
I do not believe that Marijuana is in any way as damaging as Opium but its effects on a society can be nearly as damaging.

Interesting input Paul. Yea, I see where you’re coming from, but (like you said) this is specifically a conversation about marijuana and I think if we were talking about cocaine (or harder drugs) – for instance – the opium discussion would be coming to the table a bit more heavily.

I think you pointed out the #1 difference – marijuana is not addictive and doesn’t give the same quick “euphoria” as cocaine, opium, or heroin would deliver.

Too, even if marijuana was slightly more addictive, I think the point of my OP was thinking about the costs. Yes, there may be some negatives to uninhibited access to marijuana, however the costs we pay to prohibit the substance (in my opinion) far outweigh any of those negatives. We are hurting ourselves more by restricting it, than would be hurt if it wasn’t restricted – you know?

What’s worse – a father that smokes marijuana occasionally or a father that’s in prison for 3 years?


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[MaryL]

I live in Colorado; legalizing pot really opened a Pandora’s box. I have smoked marijuana; frankly it was a big letdown. Do we need an excuse to ban this crap? I don’t smoke cigarettes either, because it’s a carcinogen and toxic. Tobacco has almost been banned from America public life, it's a health hazard and addictive. What is the point of legalizing marijuana? Didn’t we learn anything from tobacco?

 

[PaulS1950]

What's worse? I don't think I can play that game. I am a father that did neither. I spent time with my kids - doing real time things. I gave my children unconditional love and was very strict on the boundaries between right and wrong. I enjoyed my children immensely and let them enjoy me too. I have seen some poor examples of parents who smoke dope and the way that kids respond. I have also seen what a parent in prison can do to children. Both can be devastating to the child. Both can serve as an example that children can learn from - for better or worse.
I have children that are happy, responsible adults with families of their own. Drugs are not a part of their lives as they are too busy living to bother with them.
I guess that is where I am coming from; why hide from life in a drug induced state when you can get out and enjoy it. My children did have their mother as an example of what druds can do to you - she was an addict - is an addict to pain meds. She destroyed the relationship that she had with them even though the courts decided that she should have custody when we were divorced. I remained the parent that lived life with them while she was "not present" even when she was in the same house.
Funny how that works but I do hope that their mother can someday face the world and see what she has missed.

 

[KevinWestern]

I live in Colorado; legalizing pot really opened a Pandora’s box. I have smoked marijuana; frankly it was a big letdown. Do we need an excuse to ban this crap? I don’t smoke cigarettes either, because it’s a carcinogen and toxic. Tobacco has almost been banned from America public life, it's a health hazard and addictive. What is the point of legalizing marijuana? Didn’t we learn anything from tobacco?

To ban marijuana, these are the costs you need to pay:

Financial Costs:
1.) Millions of United States taxpayer dollars to pay for all of the 24/7 hour prisoners that are thrown in jail for marijuana related charges.
2.) Millions of $'s related to police work, court fees, and resources related to the enforcement of pot laws.
3.) Millions of dollars in tax revenue that are lost to a potentially taxable substance.
4.) Billions of dollars of economic value that are lost in the US (cartels generally make $2 billion + a year in revenue from marijuana; imagine if that money was predominately staying in the US).

Other Costs:
1.) Throwing people in jail for smoking something. What’s worse, a dad that smokes some pot on the side or a dad that’s in jail?
2.) Untold power to the cartels. You legalize marijuana and they’re out of business.
3.) Health issues. People will smoke no matter what; do you want them smoking unregulated pesticide marijuana (then pay for their health costs down the road), or smoking regulated FDA marijuana?

Pot may not provide any sort of benefit to society, and in fact it may actually harm society to some degree. However, my argument is that the costs we pay to ban the substance far outweigh any tangible or intangible harm we can measure from the substance being legal. Police work isn't free! Keeping people in jail isn't free!

Would you pay $50 million dollars to ban a substance that does only $1 million of damage every year?


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[LoudMcCloud]

Drone strikes are legal, but smoking a joint isnt. Lol. Wake up folks. Its almost over!

 

[ScienceRocks]

Drone strikes are legal, but smoking a joint isnt. Lol. Wake up folks. Its almost over!

Doesn't make sense I'll tell you what.

 

[MaryL]

I live in Colorado; legalizing pot really opened a Pandora’s box. I have smoked marijuana; frankly it was a big letdown. Do we need an excuse to ban this crap? I don’t smoke cigarettes either, because it’s a carcinogen and toxic. Tobacco has almost been banned from America public life, it's a health hazard and addictive. What is the point of legalizing marijuana? Didn’t we learn anything from tobacco?

To ban marijuana, these are the costs you need to pay:

Financial Costs:
1.) Millions of United States taxpayer dollars to pay for all of the 24/7 hour prisoners that are thrown in jail for marijuana related charges.
2.) Millions of $'s related to police work, court fees, and resources related to the enforcement of pot laws.
3.) Millions of dollars in tax revenue that are lost to a potentially taxable substance.
4.) Billions of dollars of economic value that are lost in the US (cartels generally make $2 billion + a year in revenue from marijuana; imagine if that money was predominately staying in the US).

Other Costs:
1.) Throwing people in jail for smoking something. What’s worse, a dad that smokes some pot on the side or a dad that’s in jail?
2.) Untold power to the cartels. You legalize marijuana and they’re out of business.
3.) Health issues. People will smoke no matter what; do you want them smoking unregulated pesticide marijuana (then pay for their health costs down the road), or smoking regulated FDA marijuana?

Pot may not provide any sort of benefit to society, and in fact it may actually harm society to some degree. However, my argument is that the costs we pay to ban the substance far outweigh any tangible or intangible harm we can measure from the substance being legal. Police work isn't free! Keeping people in jail isn't free!

Would you pay $50 million dollars to ban a substance that does only $1 million of damage every year?


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Consider the cost? Most of the people I know who smoke also smoke pot. My father and mother were both heavy smokers. They were addicted by big tobacco companies. The cost? My parents both died from lung cancer. We spend billions fighting cancer, and we loose lives to addiction. I think I know the cost. We are trying to encourage people to live a healthy life here, not pander to addiction. I think, kiddo, you have an agenda here.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Next you'll tell me not to eat a cheese burger and force me onto a exercise program. It's called personal freedoms.

 

[KevinWestern]

Drone strikes are legal, but smoking a joint isnt. Lol. Wake up folks. Its almost over!

I would add that not only are drone strikes legal, but being the Commander in Chief that conducts those strikes will actually get you a Nobel Peace prize.

Smoking a harmless, natural substance = Go to Jail
Drone Strike Commander = Peace Prize

You can't come up with this stuff! Reality is just too bizarre.

 

[KevinWestern]

Consider the cost? Most of the people I know who smoke also smoke pot. My father and mother were both heavy smokers. They were addicted by big tobacco companies. The cost? Billions fighting cancer, and in lives lost. I lost plenty. I think I know the cost. We are trying to encourage people to live a healthy life here, not pander to addiction. I think, kiddo, you have an agenda here.

Yea, consider the costs Mary. You seemed to slip in Tobacco there - a completely different substance when it comes to its addictiveness and carcinogenic nature.

Back to marijuana...

1.) First of all, you have to consider that there are already millions and millions of Americans smoking today (regardless of it being illegal); if it’s legalized, how many (incrementally) do you realistically think will be added to the pool?

2.) Secondly, what about the point that I brought up? What do you think is healthier; smoking marijuana that came from a pesticide field in Mexico, or a field in Iowa that’s heavily regulated in Iowa by the FDA? Which type of marijuana is more likely to give you cancer? How about the fact that if marijuana is legalized many people will choose to consume by eating instead of smoking (cutting down on lung issues)? The reason marijuana food isn't common in the states today is that only the buds are accessible (and they are the most expensive part of the plant); you can use the leaves/stems to make food.

3.) What about the millions of jobs and economic value that legalization will bring to the United States? The new jobs?

4.) What about the lives that are lost every day at the hands of the violent cartels (cutting people’s heads off, ect)? Do those lives count too? If you cut their revenue stream, what happens to their power and ability to purchase guns/ammo/gov't officials?

Aren't those valid points?

Encouraging a healthy lifestyle - sure - that's completely valid. But not at the costs we pay for prohibition. Doesn't make sense. Teach your kids not to smoke on the front lines (if you wish), but ultimately people aught to have the right to choose.




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