VOX: "Obamacare’s individual mandate is unpopular. But it’s crucial to making Obamacare work"

[MadChemist]

i'm just curious how the people are getting "screwed" by the mandate. I mean other than Libertarian Tards who don't want no gummit doing nothin' for them.

Dear JoeB131

I can't afford the 695 fine or the cost of membership in any of the programs or options that would qualify for exemption.

I need my full tax return to pay rent that I owe by the end of each year because my salary doesn't cover it.

Before the mandate, I didn't have to worry about this added fine or costs per month, because I either had insurance through work, or friends or charity in the Vietnamese community would cover if I had additional medical costs I couldn't afford such as medicine prescriptions or doctor visits that my insurance didn't cover.

Since the mandate passed, and since I lost my job that used to have affordable insurance, I have been under constant stress, even going through 6-9 months of anxiety and depression worrying about how I was going to afford to pay this cost when all my salary is needed to cover debts I took on to help save the historic district where I live. This takes up my whole salary, even when I work working TWO jobs to cover the costs. I could not afford to add 45 a month, or now a 600-700 fine. But I tried to pay the 45 a month for as long as I could after I lost my work insurance.

Now that I got hit by HARVEY, guess what JoeB131
I lost my car so I could no longer work two jobs that required driving back and forth across town. I had to borrow a car and struggle just to keep my one part time job I have left. Now I am using a car that I don't trust except to drive 20 min to work and back.

So I cannot afford to cover my bills, but am getting by just because some got delayed out of courtesy because of Harvey.

I cannot afford to pay fines for not buying insurance.
I usually get my medical or emergency costs paid by friends or charity volunteers who understand I have spent over 60,000 in credit bailing out nonprofits. So all my money goes to paying that each month, plus my storage fees for moving my stuff out of my rental unit to let a volunteer live there.

This fine penalizes me more than I can afford,
so I live in constant stress especially after Harvey.

I do not believe I should be fined when I rely on friends or charity to pay for any costs VOLUNTARILY. Because they know I have voluntarily paid costs for charity when it was my turn to help.

Why should I be fined for that?

And if you say I should register for the marketplace to "get a hardship exemption"
why should I have to register for something I didn't consent to?

I understand if you WANT to be under govt health care, then you follow their rules.

But what if YOU DON'T CONSENT.

What is wrong with allowing people to OPT IN.
So you fill out a form if you want to ENROLL.

But if you don't then you agree to go through other programs to pay for your health care!

Under the current ACA, only the programs the GOVT APPROVES are exempted. And JoeB131 the "religious health sharing ministries" that qualify are a RELIGIOUS organization.

So basically the cheapest way I found to meet the exemption to avoid having to register was to PAY to join a RELIGIOUS GROUP.

Isn't that govt regulating citizens by RELIGIOUS membership?
which the Govt approves through federal regulations?

So this also goes against my beliefs that govt cannot regulate or discriminate, much less fine people, on the basis of joining
a religious group or not!

JoeB131 this is totally against my beliefs.
I had suffered what i call "political depression" over this
until Trump pushed the campaign to try to lighten the enforcement of the mandate and to get it repealed.

It's not fair to hold this unconstitutional mandate like a gun to the heads of people playing roulette, not knowing if the gun will drop
before the bullet hits. I cannot afford to pay if that mandate is still in effect when I need to get my tax return to pay all the back rent.

I dodged the bullet before, because I had work insurance, and then I paid for the health shares to get exempted. But now I cannot even pay my bills after losing my car to Harvey.

And registering to try to get exempted is against my beliefs because I do not believe that is constitutional in the first place.

Sorry but I even offered to go on hunger strike if this
extortion didn't get removed.

All it takes JoeB131 is to make the ACA program OPTIONAL to fund and participate in. That's all. Then it would be constitutional to give people free choice of public health care.

But it is unconstitutional to force people to pay into it
where it is against the beliefs of people like me.

But they need you to pay for all those sick people.

 

[JoeB131]

It does not "work just fine" (as in everyone is happy). It works for them as some servicable level and they continue to use it. I get that. We have a lot of people in the U.S. who were plenty happy with the system prior to Obamacare.

Your pocketbook runs your politics. I get that.

When you were right wing, did you spout of words like "liberty" and "freedom" ?

.
yeah, probably did. then I realized that "Freedom" means the ability of the rich to screw the rest of us.

All it takes JoeB131 is to make the ACA program OPTIONAL to fund and participate in. That's all. Then it would be constitutional to give people free choice of public health care.

Okay, except then people would only buy insurance WHEN they got sick.

The young and healthy would opt out, the old and sick would stay in,a nd the system would collapse in about a year.

 

[JoeB131]

But they need you to pay for all those sick people.

Yes, they do.

Just like they need you to pay for that policeman or that fireman who helps all those crime victims or fire survivors who aren't you.

Amazing how that works!!!

I suppose in "Libertarian" world, you'd want the fire department to be run by a profit basis... Better pay the fireman when he shows up!!!! Hey, hopefully your credit cards aren't still in the house!!!!

 

[MadChemist]

When you were right wing, did you spout of words like "liberty" and "freedom" ?

.
yeah, probably did. then I realized that "Freedom" means the ability of the rich to screw the rest of us.

Then you don't understand what it means.

And actually, it is the government that gives the rich the ability to screw the rest of us.

It is amazing you can be so blinded by bitterness.

 

[MadChemist]

But they need you to pay for all those sick people.

Yes, they do.

Just like they need you to pay for that policeman or that fireman who helps all those crime victims or fire survivors who aren't you.

Amazing how that works!!!

I suppose in "Libertarian" world, you'd want the fire department to be run by a profit basis... Better pay the fireman when he shows up!!!! Hey, hopefully your credit cards aren't still in the house!!!!

When you can't make a solid point, you defer to this kind of argument.

Nobody abuses the fireman or police like they abuse health care. Those budgets are fixed and managed very tightly. They are also contracted at the municiple or county level. And there are counties where you can opt out of paying for them (at the risk of having your house burn down).

And, there are plenty of situations where, if you do abuse them, you'll get a bill (get lost in the mountains sometime and see what happens).

So, you really don't have a comparison that is valid.

Not so amazing when you take more than a microsecond and are ensnared in bitterness to think about it.

But you keep trying.

 

[JoeB131]

Then you don't understand what it means.

And actually, it is the government that gives the rich the ability to screw the rest of us.

It is amazing you can be so blinded by bitterness.

NO, what gives them the ability is that they have money and power.

Now, the one thing that my Ex-boss said to me when he screwed me over was "That's why I'm glad I don't have to deal with a union."

Keep in mind, the rich did shit like THIS

Until the government put an end to it. Not "Magic Market Fairies".

 

[JoeB131]

Nobody abuses the fireman or police like they abuse health care.

Really? Maybe you should talk to some cops or firemen. Most of what they do is bullshit non-emergency calls.

Had a lady in my condo complex, pretty much once a week like clockwork she had the EMT's and PD out here for her fake heart attack.

And there are counties where you can opt out of paying for them (at the risk of having your house burn down).

Yeah, and these are counties where their family trees don't fork. What's your point?

And, there are plenty of situations where, if you do abuse them, you'll get a bill (get lost in the mountains sometime and see what happens).

So getting lost is an abuse? Really?

So, you really don't have a comparison that is valid.

Not so amazing when you take more than a microsecond and are ensnared in bitterness to think about it.

Actually, I gave you a good one. In the CIVILIZED parts of the country, where Cleetus and Billy-bob don't need them no gummit, we all subsidize public services, EVEN THE ONES WE DON'T USE.

So this gets to the basic argument.

Should Healthcare be

a) A consumer commodity, where the quality of service you get is based on your ability to pay.

or

b) A public service we should all have access to when we need it.

And one more time.

THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT AND WENT WITH b)!!!!

 

[dblack]

This is really the classic, and quite false, dichotomy between security and freedom. The security Joe yearns for is illusory. It's the promise of a politician.

 

[dblack]

When you were right wing, did you spout of words like "liberty" and "freedom" ?

.
yeah, probably did. then I realized that "Freedom" means the ability of the rich to screw the rest of us.

Then you don't understand what it means.

Keep in mind, Joe's idea of getting "screwed" is someone else not doing what he wants them to do. eg - an employer who isn't paying her employees as much as Joe thinks she should, or a doctor who refuses to work for free.

 

[JoeB131]

This is really the classic, and quite false, dichotomy between security and freedom. The security Joe yearns for is illusory. It's the promise of a politician.

True Story. Most of the things we have government do actually happen.

We all whine about the DMV, but the thing is, in my area, we have the DMV and the Comcast office right next to each other.

Guess which one had me out in 10 minutes, and which one had me waiting a half an hour and still didn't resolve my problem to my satisfaction.

Business spends billions of dollars telling you how wonderful they are... but anyone who ever had to deal with a cable company, insurance company, bank or airline would laugh at that.

Frankly, I don't consider myself "Free" if I have to rely on an insurance policy provided by my employer that they can pull the rug out from under me any time they want.

 

[JoeB131]

Keep in mind, Joe's idea of getting "screwed" is someone else not doing what he wants them to do. eg - an employer who isn't paying her employees as much as Joe thinks she should, or a doctor who refuses to work for free.

No one said the doctor should work for free.

Of course a REAL doctor is in it because he wants to make people well. Not for the six figure income.

 

[MadChemist]

Then you don't understand what it means.

And actually, it is the government that gives the rich the ability to screw the rest of us.

It is amazing you can be so blinded by bitterness.

NO, what gives them the ability is that they have money and power.

Now, the one thing that my Ex-boss said to me when he screwed me over was "That's why I'm glad I don't have to deal with a union."

Keep in mind, the rich did shit like THIS

Until the government put an end to it. Not "Magic Market Fairies".

Nice propaganda.

Then you don't understand what it means.

And actually, it is the government that gives the rich the ability to screw the rest of us.

It is amazing you can be so blinded by bitterness.

NO, what gives them the ability is that they have money and power.

Now, the one thing that my Ex-boss said to me when he screwed me over was "That's why I'm glad I don't have to deal with a union."

Keep in mind, the rich did shit like THIS

Until the government put an end to it. Not "Magic Market Fairies".

Of course it was the lack of a union.

You need that protection....apparently. And, after all, your boss owed you.

Those kids were forced to work there ? Really ?

 

[MadChemist]

Keep in mind, Joe's idea of getting "screwed" is someone else not doing what he wants them to do. eg - an employer who isn't paying her employees as much as Joe thinks she should, or a doctor who refuses to work for free.

No one said the doctor should work for free.

Of course a REAL doctor is in it because he wants to make people well. Not for the six figure income.

That pretty much sums it up for Joe.

 

[MadChemist]

Nobody abuses the fireman or police like they abuse health care.

Really? Maybe you should talk to some cops or firemen. Most of what they do is bullshit non-emergency calls.

Had a lady in my condo complex, pretty much once a week like clockwork she had the EMT's and PD out here for her fake heart attack.

Never a good answer from you. I know plenty of both and while they have their issues.....nobody overuses and gets away with it. In fact, you can be arrested for doing that.

 

[MadChemist]

Actually, I gave you a good one. In the CIVILIZED parts of the country, where Cleetus and Billy-bob don't need them no gummit, we all subsidize public services, EVEN THE ONES WE DON'T USE.

So this gets to the basic argument.

Should Healthcare be

a) A consumer commodity, where the quality of service you get is based on your ability to pay.

or

b) A public service we should all have access to when we need it.

And one more time.

THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT AND WENT WITH b)!!!!

Actually the rest of the world has chosen somewhere between a and b....just like we have.

 

[MadChemist]

Business spends billions of dollars telling you how wonderful they are... but anyone who ever had to deal with a cable company, insurance company, bank or airline would laugh at that.

Dealth with all of them these past several months.

Great service....

Great value.....

What point were you trying to make here ?[/QUOTE]

 

[MadChemist]

This is really the classic, and quite false, dichotomy between security and freedom. The security Joe yearns for is illusory. It's the promise of a politician.

True Story. Most of the things we have government do actually happen.

We all whine about the DMV, but the thing is, in my area, we have the DMV and the Comcast office right next to each other.

Guess which one had me out in 10 minutes, and which one had me waiting a half an hour and still didn't resolve my problem to my satisfaction.

Business spends billions of dollars telling you how wonderful they are... but anyone who ever had to deal with a cable company, insurance company, bank or airline would laugh at that.

Frankly, I don't consider myself "Free" if I have to rely on an insurance policy provided by my employer that they can pull the rug out from under me any time they want.

And you didn't address his post.

Which isn't a surprize.

 

[dblack]

Frankly, I don't consider myself "Free" if I have to rely on an insurance policy provided by my employer that they can pull the rug out from under me any time they want.

So you'd be in favor of removing government policies promoting employer provided health insurance? That would a great start toward actually fixing the problems with health care.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course it was the lack of a union.

You need that protection....apparently. And, after all, your boss owed you.

Those kids were forced to work there ? Really ?

Um, yeah, in the days where had to put the whole family to work to "not starve", they were.

But I'm sure you miss hte good old days when you didn't have pesky government sticking it nose in and saying Kids should enjoy childhood, kind of.

So you'd be in favor of removing government policies promoting employer provided health insurance? That would a great start toward actually fixing the problems with health care.

No, it really wouldn't. The thing is, if we went to a completely individual market, it would collapse in a week. The young and healthy wouldn't buy insurance and the old and sick couldn't afford it.

I guess that would get us to Single Payer that much faster, the smart choice the rest of the world made when we were still writing down 2+2=Cat like the Class Retard.

And you didn't address his post.

Which isn't a surprize.

Yes, I did. That you didn't understand it isn't my problem.

Dealth with all of them these past several months.

Great service....

Great value.....

What point were you trying to make here ?

That most of them are pretty shitty.

The Airlines trying to cram people into ever smaller seats, the Cable Company outsourcing customer service to someone in the Philippines who barely speaks English, or Insurance doing all the evil shit they did before Obama said to knock it off.

 

[dblack]

It baffles me that people who don't have the balls to stand up to corporations, who have no power over them, demand that we subjugate ourselves to the state.