Virginia Bellwether - Obama Sucks

[Nik]

It is TIME to stop murdering our people...

Burning coal is a leading cause of smog, acid rain, global warming, and air toxics. In an average year, a typical coal plant generates:

* 3,700,000 tons of carbon dioxide (CO2), the primary human cause of global warming--as much carbon dioxide as cutting down 161 million trees.

* 10,000 tons of sulfur dioxide (SO2), which causes acid rain that damages forests, lakes, and buildings, and forms small airborne particles that can penetrate deep into lungs.

* 500 tons of small airborne particles, which can cause chronic bronchitis, aggravated asthma, and premature death, as well as haze obstructing visibility.

* 10,200 tons of nitrogen oxide (NOx), as much as would be emitted by half a million late-model cars. NOx leads to formation of ozone (smog) which inflames the lungs, burning through lung tissue making people more susceptible to respiratory illness.

* 720 tons of carbon monoxide (CO), which causes headaches and place additional stress on people with heart disease.

* 220 tons of hydrocarbons, volatile organic compounds (VOC), which form ozone.

* 170 pounds of mercury, where just 1/70th of a teaspoon deposited on a 25-acre lake can make the fish unsafe to eat.

* 225 pounds of arsenic, which will cause cancer in one out of 100 people who drink water containing 50 parts per billion.

* 114 pounds of lead, 4 pounds of cadmium, other toxic heavy metals, and trace amounts of uranium.

coal power: air pollution | Union of Concerned Scientists

I would be more convinced if you were advocating the extinguishing of the thousands of coal fires that are burning out of control through out the world spewing unfiltered coal smoke into the atmosphere.

It seems that if people were really sincere about this issue, they would first focus on the non-controversial and then do the hard stuff of actual changing the way whole economies are run. But when the focus is first the controversial and never the non-controversial, it makes me believe that the real issue is not pollutants.

Spending huge amounts of money putting out underground fires is uncontroversial? Then why hasn't it been done?

And since we apparently all agree on the issue, who have we all agreed to have pay for putting out the fires?

 

[Newby]

better yet, we can make your kind stop breathing and save ourselves from goofy threads in one fell swoop!

You know, it takes so much energy to run the computers and servers that allow you to post these stupid fucking "ManMade Global Warming" Warning on the internet, that I believe the leading cause of ManMade Global Warming are these stupid fucking pointless warnings!

Stop Global Warming by not posting about it!

Amazing. Another idiotic belief by you which is false.

How terribly surprising.

Not so fast, Nik. They're going to use this to control every aspect of your life, right down to your MySpace page. Energy is going to be rationed, and it's not going to be pretty. What's great is that they've convinced lunes like you that it is needed, so you're advocating for your own enslavement. Pretty cool, huh?

The Internet's Carbon Footprint - Server Farms vs Your Desktop PC

 

[Nik]

You know, it takes so much energy to run the computers and servers that allow you to post these stupid fucking "ManMade Global Warming" Warning on the internet, that I believe the leading cause of ManMade Global Warming are these stupid fucking pointless warnings!

Stop Global Warming by not posting about it!

Amazing. Another idiotic belief by you which is false.

How terribly surprising.

Not so fast, Nik. They're going to use this to control every aspect of your life, right down to your MySpace page. Energy is going to be rationed, and it's not going to be pretty. What's great is that they've convinced lunes like you that it is needed, so you're advocating for your own enslavement. Pretty cool, huh?

The Internet's Carbon Footprint - Server Farms vs Your Desktop PC

Omg, puppies will die too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enslavement? Give me a fucking break.

 

[Newby]

Amazing. Another idiotic belief by you which is false.

How terribly surprising.

Not so fast, Nik. They're going to use this to control every aspect of your life, right down to your MySpace page. Energy is going to be rationed, and it's not going to be pretty. What's great is that they've convinced lunes like you that it is needed, so you're advocating for your own enslavement. Pretty cool, huh?

The Internet's Carbon Footprint - Server Farms vs Your Desktop PC

Omg, puppies will die too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enslavement? Give me a fucking break.

Not willing to admit you were wrong, huh? No surprises there.

 

[Nik]

Not so fast, Nik. They're going to use this to control every aspect of your life, right down to your MySpace page. Energy is going to be rationed, and it's not going to be pretty. What's great is that they've convinced lunes like you that it is needed, so you're advocating for your own enslavement. Pretty cool, huh?

The Internet's Carbon Footprint - Server Farms vs Your Desktop PC

Omg, puppies will die too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enslavement? Give me a fucking break.

Not willing to admit you were wrong, huh? No surprises there.

Show me I'm wrong, and I'll admit it.

Whining and gnashing your teeth about enslavement proves nothing except that your are using exaggerated rhetoric and hyperbole.

If your point was that computers use energy, yes I'm aware of that.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Amazing. Another idiotic belief by you which is false.

How terribly surprising.

Not so fast, Nik. They're going to use this to control every aspect of your life, right down to your MySpace page. Energy is going to be rationed, and it's not going to be pretty. What's great is that they've convinced lunes like you that it is needed, so you're advocating for your own enslavement. Pretty cool, huh?

The Internet's Carbon Footprint - Server Farms vs Your Desktop PC

Omg, puppies will die too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enslavement? Give me a fucking break.

If you aren't free, you're.......what?





Wait the liberal answer....you're regulated.

 

[Nik]

Not so fast, Nik. They're going to use this to control every aspect of your life, right down to your MySpace page. Energy is going to be rationed, and it's not going to be pretty. What's great is that they've convinced lunes like you that it is needed, so you're advocating for your own enslavement. Pretty cool, huh?

The Internet's Carbon Footprint - Server Farms vs Your Desktop PC

Omg, puppies will die too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enslavement? Give me a fucking break.

If you aren't free, you're.......what?

Wait the liberal answer....you're regulated.

So after your complete bullshit about coal fires, your going to just skip over my questions?

The world isn't black and white. You aren't free to shoot someone in the face, that doesn't make you enslaved.

You aren't a fuckwit. So kindly stop acting like one. Maybe you can actually address the topic instead of insulting people because they aren't advocating doing something we don't know how to do, or because they think there is a middle ground between freedom and enslavement.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Somehow this turned into a cap and tax thread, but back to the OP.


Current Poll on Virginia State Wide races.

Governor - Repub leads by 6% (Dem has lost 12% in the last month.)

Lt. Gov. - Repub leads by 6%

Atty. Gen. Repub leads by 7%

 

[Yurt]

"How much of Virginia's economy is tied to coal?" would be a better question, given the context.

coal is responsible for 50% of american electricity...how these guys think we can just stop using it is beyond me...build more nuke energy IMO

Can you point to who on this thread who said we should just stop using it?

#5....then your #9 seems to agree....

 

[Nik]

coal is responsible for 50% of american electricity...how these guys think we can just stop using it is beyond me...build more nuke energy IMO

Can you point to who on this thread who said we should just stop using it?

#5....then your #9 seems to agree....

No, he said using it can create problems. That combined with the fact that coal runs much of our economy would lead any sensible observer to the conclusion that we should reduce how much we use it.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Omg, puppies will die too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enslavement? Give me a fucking break.

If you aren't free, you're.......what?

Wait the liberal answer....you're regulated.

So after your complete bullshit about coal fires, your going to just skip over my questions?

The world isn't black and white. You aren't free to shoot someone in the face, that doesn't make you enslaved.

You aren't a fuckwit. So kindly stop acting like one. Maybe you can actually address the topic instead of insulting people because they aren't advocating doing something we don't know how to do, or because they think there is a middle ground between freedom and enslavement.

The OP was not on cap and tax. The OP is on Virginia being a bellwether. My most recent post is back on topic after everything else being OT.

But, since you asked. There are a lot of very good developments taking place in stopping coal fires. Just because the PA coal fire is proving damned difficult, I'd say its a much better solution to start focusing some efforts on figuring out the best way to stop them from burning rather than throwing up your hands and saying "Can't be done!" Why? because the fuckers do not go out on their own! There is a coal fire that has been burning in Australia for over 6,000 years.

Since I'm responding to your questions you won't mind me exposing your lie in your response to me. Coal fires don't just burn underground. Even if some do,the exhaust eventually gets out to the atmosphere. But, most coal fires are in China and India. Since you apparently aren't aware, in China, coal is mostly very close to the surface. Many of the coal fires there have started from lightning strikes.

Sure, you can raise all kinds of questions about how to put them out etc. but the fact remains that nobody wants them to keep burning, so why all this effort on stopping coal fired electric plants and no effort on stopping coal fires?

 

[Nik]

Somehow this turned into a cap and tax thread, but back to the OP.


Current Poll on Virginia State Wide races.

Governor - Repub leads by 6% (Dem has lost 12% in the last month.)

Lt. Gov. - Repub leads by 6%

Atty. Gen. Repub leads by 7%

Wow...Republicans are leading in the south?

I'm shocked. Just shocked!

By the way...smooth transition from shit you got called out about. Were you lying about the coal fires, or did you just have no idea what you were talking about?

 

[Oddball]

Somehow this turned into a cap and tax thread, but back to the OP.


Current Poll on Virginia State Wide races.

Governor - Repub leads by 6% (Dem has lost 12% in the last month.)

Lt. Gov. - Repub leads by 6%

Atty. Gen. Repub leads by 7%

Right...It spun out of control when Xeno pointed out the Virginia is a state that relies heavily upon coal, and the enviromoonbats hijacked it from there....As if to say that Virginians are too stupid to know what's in their best interests.

But that's a familiar refrain from the know-it-all nannies from both wings of the demo-publician political duopoly.

 

[Newby]

Omg, puppies will die too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enslavement? Give me a fucking break.

Not willing to admit you were wrong, huh? No surprises there.

Show me I'm wrong, and I'll admit it.

Whining and gnashing your teeth about enslavement proves nothing except that your are using exaggerated rhetoric and hyperbole.

If your point was that computers use energy, yes I'm aware of that.

Did you even read the article I linked? Do you have a brain?

 

[Nik]

If you aren't free, you're.......what?

Wait the liberal answer....you're regulated.

So after your complete bullshit about coal fires, your going to just skip over my questions?

The world isn't black and white. You aren't free to shoot someone in the face, that doesn't make you enslaved.

You aren't a fuckwit. So kindly stop acting like one. Maybe you can actually address the topic instead of insulting people because they aren't advocating doing something we don't know how to do, or because they think there is a middle ground between freedom and enslavement.

But, since you asked. There are a lot of very good developments taking place in stopping coal fires. Just because the PA coal fire is proving damned difficult, I'd say its a much better solution to start focusing some efforts on figuring out the best way to stop them from burning rather than throwing up your hands and saying "Can't be done!" Why? because the fuckers do not go out on their own! There is a coal fire that has been burning in Australia for over 6,000 years.

There are a lot of very good developments going on....and yet we need to start focusing some efforts on figuring the best way to stop them?

Nobody has said "can't be done". But you are advocating that we do something that we are already trying to do, and furthermore you incorrectly claimed that it was "easy" to do so. Yes, of course we should be expending efforts on stopping underground coal fires. We are already expending those efforts which, by the way, would be much easier if we had reduced our dependence on coal a white back.

Since I'm responding to your questions you won't mind me exposing your lie in your response to me. Coal fires don't just burn underground. Even if some do,the exhaust eventually gets out to the atmosphere. But, most coal fires are in China and India. Since you apparently aren't aware, in China, coal is mostly very close to the surface. Many of the coal fires there have started from lightning strikes.

Coal fires in the United States are largely underground. Since you are asking why we are advocating for cap and trade, and not dealing with coal fires, I was assuming you had the common sense to realize that we aren't going to be advocating for China to change its policies. Perhaps you know next to nothing about politics, but our voices on Chinese domestic policies mean absolutely nothing.

Sure, you can raise all kinds of questions about how to put them out etc. but the fact remains that nobody wants them to keep burning, so why all this effort on stopping coal fired electric plants and no effort on stopping coal fires?

No effort on stopping coal fires? That is simply a lie.

By the way, surely you realize that stopping coal fired electric plants will mean less coal is extracted with which mean....you got it, less coal fires?

 

[Nik]

Not willing to admit you were wrong, huh? No surprises there.

Show me I'm wrong, and I'll admit it.

Whining and gnashing your teeth about enslavement proves nothing except that your are using exaggerated rhetoric and hyperbole.

If your point was that computers use energy, yes I'm aware of that.

Did you even read the article I linked? Do you have a brain?

The article you linked said that computers use energy. Yes, I knew that. Thanks for the info!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That the beach is darker than the shoreline could mean that the "sand" on the beach is wet with organics, or it could be covered with a thin layer of liquid organics, he said.

YOUR LINK, genius...




Titan's Ethane Lake

Yes, there are little organic aliens sunbathing by the shores of the ethane lake taking moment to enjoy the -270 temperatures.

 

[Tech_Esq]

So after your complete bullshit about coal fires, your going to just skip over my questions?

The world isn't black and white. You aren't free to shoot someone in the face, that doesn't make you enslaved.

You aren't a fuckwit. So kindly stop acting like one. Maybe you can actually address the topic instead of insulting people because they aren't advocating doing something we don't know how to do, or because they think there is a middle ground between freedom and enslavement.

There are a lot of very good developments going on....and yet we need to start focusing some efforts on figuring the best way to stop them?

Nobody has said "can't be done". But you are advocating that we do something that we are already trying to do, and furthermore you incorrectly claimed that it was "easy" to do so. Yes, of course we should be expending efforts on stopping underground coal fires. We are already expending those efforts which, by the way, would be much easier if we had reduced our dependence on coal a white back.



Coal fires in the United States are largely underground. Since you are asking why we are advocating for cap and trade, and not dealing with coal fires, I was assuming you had the common sense to realize that we aren't going to be advocating for China to change its policies. Perhaps you know next to nothing about politics, but our voices on Chinese domestic policies mean absolutely nothing.

Sure, you can raise all kinds of questions about how to put them out etc. but the fact remains that nobody wants them to keep burning, so why all this effort on stopping coal fired electric plants and no effort on stopping coal fires?

No effort on stopping coal fires? That is simply a lie.

By the way, surely you realize that stopping coal fired electric plants will mean less coal is extracted with which mean....you got it, less coal fires?

Coal fires are not a common occurrence in this country. Most coal fires occur because of poor mining practices. That's why most coal fires occur in India and China. They started mining earlier than the US did (in India under English colonialism, the Brits have a large number of coal fires too. They exported their poor mining practices with their colonialism.)

I didn't mention changing Chinese domestic policy. Are you suggesting the Chinese want their coal to be burned in the ground to no purpose? Probably not. If you want a green job, export a way to stop coal fires in China and India. There is a guy that has developed a method of depriving the coal fire oxygen by filling the shaft with foam that has shown promise. Despite the difficulty of putting out some coal fires, specifically the anthracite fire in PA with a method of depriving the coal fire of fuel By digging a circle around the burning part, that has been used successfully elsewhere.

In case you hadn't noticed Nik, the atmosphere exists around the entire world not just over the US and just correcting the US's portion of it does little good if their are 2.5 billion people on the other side of the Earth polluting the hell out of it at an ever increasing pace. When I said coal fires are easy, I meant politically easy. Why would you be against putting out a coal fire? But you seem hell bent on at once arguing that it can't be done because it's so hard to do and that it is already being done.

All I have to say is if we are already doing it, we aren't doing a very good job, because there are thousands raging throughout the world (including several here).

 

[Tech_Esq]

Somehow this turned into a cap and tax thread, but back to the OP.


Current Poll on Virginia State Wide races.

Governor - Repub leads by 6% (Dem has lost 12% in the last month.)

Lt. Gov. - Repub leads by 6%

Atty. Gen. Repub leads by 7%

Wow...Republicans are leading in the south?

I'm shocked. Just shocked!

By the way...smooth transition from shit you got called out about. Were you lying about the coal fires, or did you just have no idea what you were talking about?

Actually it is news. Virginia went for a Democrat for the first time since 1964 in November. It was a large question whether Virginia would be a purple state or whether Obama was an anomaly. The election this November will do a lot to answer that question and whether the 2010 election cycle is going to be painful for Dems.

 

[Nik]

There are a lot of very good developments going on....and yet we need to start focusing some efforts on figuring the best way to stop them?

Nobody has said "can't be done". But you are advocating that we do something that we are already trying to do, and furthermore you incorrectly claimed that it was "easy" to do so. Yes, of course we should be expending efforts on stopping underground coal fires. We are already expending those efforts which, by the way, would be much easier if we had reduced our dependence on coal a white back.

Coal fires in the United States are largely underground. Since you are asking why we are advocating for cap and trade, and not dealing with coal fires, I was assuming you had the common sense to realize that we aren't going to be advocating for China to change its policies. Perhaps you know next to nothing about politics, but our voices on Chinese domestic policies mean absolutely nothing.



No effort on stopping coal fires? That is simply a lie.

By the way, surely you realize that stopping coal fired electric plants will mean less coal is extracted with which mean....you got it, less coal fires?

Coal fires are not a common occurrence in this country. Most coal fires occur because of poor mining practices. That's why most coal fires occur in India and China. They started mining earlier than the US did (in India under English colonialism, the Brits have a large number of coal fires too. They exported their poor mining practices with their colonialism.)

Actually there are a fairly large number of coal fires in the US, mostly in Pennsylvania.

I didn't mention changing Chinese domestic policy. Are you suggesting the Chinese want their coal to be burned in the ground to no purpose? Probably not. If you want a green job, export a way to stop coal fires in China and India.

There is no way of fighting coal fires cheaply. That being said, no, I don't think the Chinese are going to spend lots of money to protect the environment and put out coal fires. Do you?

In case you hadn't noticed Nik, the atmosphere exists around the entire world not just over the US and just correcting the US's portion of it does little good if their are 2.5 billion people on the other side of the Earth polluting the hell out of it at an ever increasing pace.

Actually, the US is the largest per capita polluter in the world, by far. That being said, what exactly do you propose we do about China polluting?

Hmmm. Ok, so global warming is a problem. Should we lobby and argue with an government (the US) who we have some small power over/can change/has democratic accountability....or a government who we have no power over/can't change/ has no democratic accountability.

You seem to be arguing that, for some reason, we should be focusing on China first. Why is that?

When I said coal fires are easy, I meant politically easy. Why would you be against putting out a coal fire? But you seem hell bent on at once arguing that it can't be done because it's so hard to do and that it is already being done.

Oh, well, if its politically easy, than its something we should be politically fighting for...except it won't really do anything.

I am arguing that we are trying to stop them, and are failing. Something can be done without having an actual effect, I'm sure you are aware of that.

All I have to say is if we are already doing it, we aren't doing a very good job, because there are thousands raging throughout the world (including several here).

We have NO control over what other countries do. China pollutes in all sorts of terrible ways. It would be great if we could prevent them from doing so, but we simply can't. So instead we'll focus on that tiny country that pollutes the most per capita, the United States.