Veterans receiving PTSD disability should be prohibited from owning a firearm

[tjvh]

Anybody disagree? Veterans who continue to show psychological problems to the point that they are considered disabled because of a mental condition should be prohibited from owning firearms. The restriction should continue as long as the disability.

Then we should fire all Police officers who ever took depression medicine too, right? Or are you merely attacking veterans?

 

[whitehall]

Anybody disagree? Veterans who continue to show psychological problems to the point that they are considered disabled because of a mental condition should be prohibited from owning firearms. The restriction should continue as long as the disability.

Then we should fire all Police officers who ever took depression medicine too, right? Or are you merely attacking veterans?

Been there and done that argument. How do you think we should treat a former police officer who left the job because of mental instability? Should former police officers who receive a disability because of mental illness be authorized to purchase a firearm? PTSD patients admit that they are mentally unstable and as long as they accept government disability checks they continue to to admit that they are mentally unstable.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"PTSD patients admit that they are mentally unstable and as long as they accept government disability checks they continue to to admit that they are mentally unstable."

Total bullshit. There are as many definitions of "mentally unstable" as there are attempts to define the term. And, no, nobody is especially interested in how you define it because it is up to a court to determine if an individual is a danger to himself or others. If we are going to decide that whole classes of people are mentally dangerous, I would like to nominate golfers. They deliberately-and with malice aforethought- arm themselves with bags of clubs in order to preform drive-by bludgeoning of innocent and inoffensive little golfs. Oh, the horror!

 

[whitehall]

"PTSD patients admit that they are mentally unstable and as long as they accept government disability checks they continue to to admit that they are mentally unstable."

Total bullshit. There are as many definitions of "mentally unstable" as there are attempts to define the term. And, no, nobody is especially interested in how you define it because it is up to a court to determine if an individual is a danger to himself or others. If we are going to decide that whole classes of people are mentally dangerous, I would like to nominate golfers. They deliberately-and with malice aforethought- arm themselves with bags of clubs in order to preform drive-by bludgeoning of innocent and inoffensive little golfs. Oh, the horror!

Total what? How do we distinguish "moderate" PTSD patients from acute PTSD patients? We lump them all together as acute when they continue to resist therapy.

 

[whitehall]

Come on guys, you gotta know that when you play the crazy card to get that 10% government disability check you forfeit your self respect. Go ahead and keep your guns but make sure you check the crazy box on the ATF form if you plan to buy a new gun.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Anybody disagree? Veterans who continue to show psychological problems to the point that they are considered disabled because of a mental condition should be prohibited from owning firearms. The restriction should continue as long as the disability.

You want to take away a Constitutional right from a person that fought and become injured.


That's really fucked up, not everyone with ptsd is going on a killing spree.

People like you make me sick.

Look at it this way. Service to your Country should guarantee you the right to keep and bear arms. The same liberties that Veterans fought and died for also guarantees the right of Americans to be secure in their homes from people who suffer so severely from mental illness that they collect a disability.

The Constitution already does that.


good lord, any reason is good enough to remove rights.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Look at it this way. Service to your Country should guarantee you the right to keep and bear arms. The same liberties that Veterans fought and died for also guarantees the right of Americans to be secure in their homes from people who suffer so severely from mental illness that they collect a disability.

You're hung up on the disability thingy. Why should people who legally qualify for a disability be punished ?

The "D" in PTSD stands for disability. I didn't make it up. Where did you get the idea they are punished? All I am suggesting is that they be prevented from owning firearms for the duration of their mental illness. It seams reasonable.

Post
Traumatic
Stress
Disorder

You don't even know what you are talking about except that you know you want to take peoples rights away for any reason.

 

[DarkLion]

Anybody disagree? Veterans who continue to show psychological problems to the point that they are considered disabled because of a mental condition should be prohibited from owning firearms. The restriction should continue as long as the disability.

Bullshit. We don't do pre-crime here in America. These men fight in conditions we cannot imagine. For us. The last thing we need to do is heap insult upon injury by unjustly stigmatizing them.

 

[editec]

Anybody disagree? Veterans who continue to show psychological problems to the point that they are considered disabled because of a mental condition should be prohibited from owning firearms. The restriction should continue as long as the disability.

Depends on the Dx.

I'm inclined to agree if they are suffering from PTSD.

 

[rightwinger]

With the number of PTSD suicides, gun ownership should be discouraged by those who love them

But legally, there is nothing that can be done to prevent a suicidal vet from buying the gun that kills him

 

[XPostFacto]

I'll bet USMB poster "OldGuy" has quite a collection that the Gov't can take.

I wonder when his next VA appointment is?

Sounds to me like you're making a wild assumption that just because a guy is a vet and is old, he must be a mental case.

 

[XPostFacto]

You wouldn't let a murder suspect carry a gun after he was indicted even if he hasn't been found guilty.

Yet, Lon Horiuchi, the FBI sniper, who murdered Randy Weaver's wife, while she was holding their daughter, continues to go about his merry way, still carrying a gun. I suppose it depends on whether the murderer represents the totalitarian government that is in charge at the time.

 

[Sunshine]

Come on guys, you gotta know that when you play the crazy card to get that 10% government disability check you forfeit your self respect. Go ahead and keep your guns but make sure you check the crazy box on the ATF form if you plan to buy a new gun.

You are a bigot.

 

[XPostFacto]

Come on guys, you gotta know that when you play the crazy card to get that 10% government disability check you forfeit your self respect. Go ahead and keep your guns but make sure you check the crazy box on the ATF form if you plan to buy a new gun.

Here's food for thought. On another note, as a federal worker, I have to renew my security clearance every 10 years. There was a question on the renewal form on whether I had knowingly ever associated with any group or person that advocated the overthrow of America. I wonder what Obama put down for that question, since he knowingly associated with Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn? If he was asked the question, I bet he lied. It's questionable how he was able to get a top secret clearance. Here, you're worried about returning veterans having guns, and the worse danger to this country resides in the White House.

 

[Sunshine]

Anybody disagree? Veterans who continue to show psychological problems to the point that they are considered disabled because of a mental condition should be prohibited from owning firearms. The restriction should continue as long as the disability.

Then we should fire all Police officers who ever took depression medicine too, right? Or are you merely attacking veterans?

There wouldn't be a nurse left in the psych hospitals, because we have, at some time, all been hurt. I was stabbed by a patient in 1995. And it was not a veteran, nor did she have PTSD. But I did afterward, and believing in what I do, I went for therapy. They symptoms were short lived, but my exposure was noththing like that of a veteran. Flashbacks, intrusive thoughts, hyper alertness, emtional reactivity will generally go away with treatment, but the nightmares generally do not. There is a medication, a blood pressuremed, called Prazosin which used off label in very small doses can decrease the nightmares, but they generally never go away.

This thread is disgusting and the person who started it is a bigot of the highest water. Fro 25 years, with 17 of that being as a prescriber, I have seen people with mental illness ranging from the worried well to the severely psychotic. But I have yet to see anyone as bigoted as the person who started this thread. We have tried everything we know to get people who have mental illness to come forward and get help, but the stigma is so great they will not. Now he just ups the ante on the stigma.

Something that may surprise you: a lot of people who have mental illnesses are going to providers and paying cash money for the services even though they have insurance. That way there is no record of their visit on their insurance for the employer or others to find, and the provider is bound by legal privilege to not reveal anything. Most actually have rather vague names for their practices so when they send the bill, even the postman doesn't catch on. Gossips are everywhere. Such is the greatness of the losses which are to be anticipated when someone goes for treatment of a mental illness. If there is anyone who is sick, it is the person who started this thread, and I've told people my entire career that there are two things they don't make a pill for one is stupid and the other is bigot. Sadly he is both.

I am resisting the suggestions from friends and patients alike to write that book now I'm retired, but the resistance is wearing thin. I thought I would live to see the day when mental illness would have no stigma, and treatment for it would be nothing more than the treatment is for any other problem like diabetes, sadly I have changed my mind on that one. It will not happen in my lifetime.

 

[Katzndogz]

With the number of PTSD suicides, gun ownership should be discouraged by those who love them

But legally, there is nothing that can be done to prevent a suicidal vet from buying the gun that kills him

Gun ACCESS should be discouraged by those who love them.

Before we ever had the first gun control law, families and communities were prohibiting access to firearms by the mentally ill.

 

[rightwinger]

With the number of PTSD suicides, gun ownership should be discouraged by those who love them

But legally, there is nothing that can be done to prevent a suicidal vet from buying the gun that kills him

Gun ACCESS should be discouraged by those who love them.

Before we ever had the first gun control law, families and communities were prohibiting access to firearms by the mentally ill.

Agree

Soldiers suffering from PTSD should be encouraged by counselors, superior officers and family members to voluntarily give their weapons to someone they trust while they are being treated

 

[Sunshine]

With the number of PTSD suicides, gun ownership should be discouraged by those who love them

But legally, there is nothing that can be done to prevent a suicidal vet from buying the gun that kills him

Gun ACCESS should be discouraged by those who love them.

Before we ever had the first gun control law, families and communities were prohibiting access to firearms by the mentally ill.

Which is impossible because you don't know who is mentally ill. Technically anyone who has ever taken a mild tranquilizer or sleep aid is mentally ill. There are many mental illnesses which do not cause a person to be homicidal.

Here are the diagnostic criteria for PTSD.

Diagnostic criteria for PTSD include a history of exposure to a traumatic event meeting two criteria and symptoms from each of three symptom clusters: intrusive recollections, avoidant/numbing symptoms, and hyper-arousal symptoms. A fifth criterion concerns duration of symptoms and a sixth assesses functioning.

Criterion A: stressor
The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following have been present:

1.The person has experienced, witnessed, or been confronted with an event or events that involve actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of oneself or others.
2.The person's response involved intense fear,helplessness, or horror. Note: in children, it may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behavior.
Criterion B: intrusive recollection
The traumatic event is persistently re-experienced in at least one of the following ways:

1.Recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: in young children, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.
2.Recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: in children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content
3.Acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes,including those that occur upon awakening or when intoxicated). Note: in children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.
4.Intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.
5.Physiologic reactivity upon exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event
Criterion C: avoidant/numbing
Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by at least three of the following:

1.Efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings, or conversations associated with the trauma
2.Efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections of the trauma
3.Inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma
4.Markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities
5.Feeling of detachment or estrangement from others
6.Restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings)
7.Sense of foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or a normal life span)
Criterion D: hyper-arousal
Persistent symptoms of increasing arousal (not present before the trauma), indicated by at least two of the following:

1.Difficulty falling or staying asleep
2.Irritability or outbursts of anger
3.Difficulty concentrating
4.Hyper-vigilance
5.Exaggerated startle response
Criterion E: duration
Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in B, C, and D) is more than one month.

Criterion F: functional significance
The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Specify if:
Acute: if duration of symptoms is less than three months

Chronic: if duration of symptoms is three months or more

Specify if:
With or Without delay onset: Onset of symptoms at least six months after the stressor

DSM-IV-TR criteria for PTSD - NATIONAL CENTER for PTSD

I posted the complete criteria because it is a government website and not copyrighted.

PTSD is a neurosis, not a psychosis.

 

[whitehall]

With the number of PTSD suicides, gun ownership should be discouraged by those who love them

But legally, there is nothing that can be done to prevent a suicidal vet from buying the gun that kills him

"Nothing that can be done"? How about preventing PTSD patients from purchasing guns?

 

[rightwinger]

With the number of PTSD suicides, gun ownership should be discouraged by those who love them

But legally, there is nothing that can be done to prevent a suicidal vet from buying the gun that kills him

"Nothing that can be done"? How about preventing PTSD patients from purchasing guns?

While it would undoubtedly save lives it would never pass muster with 2nd amendment purists and the NRA

Voluntary surrender of weapons is the best we can hope for