Universal background checks

[The Rabbi]

I don't think the names on the list should be made available, but I do think that if I want to sell my gun to someone, I should have the option of checking the list.

You already ahve the option of taking the gun and the buyer to a licensed dealer to do the background check.

That's not too easy and you have to pay a transfer fee.

How do you think universal background checks are going to work if this crap passes?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The list is just the one we already have now. The difference is who has access to check against the list. The return being, yes you can sell to this individual or no you cannot sell to this individual. The list would just be everyone you shouldn't sell to so I'm not sure how it would help you figure out who to raid. Most of the list would be felons. They probably have guns anyway, being as how they're criminals. Probably ought to check the crazies too. So, I don't think it helps in the raiding area.

If I'm a felon with a gun to sell why would I care who I sold it to?

The crazy felons still get guns because having dealers alone doing background checks on new purchases has had little effect on criminals ability to get a gun. If everyone is able check to make sure they don't accidentally sell or give a gun to someone on that list or they will get in trouble, it has a chance of enforcement. We the people have to keep an eye out for the violators or it will never work just like now. We may as well do away with gun dealer background checks all together.

We the people prefer to let other people alone to having the government intrude on everything we do. The fact that you think otherwise proves you are not part of the people, you are part of the hive.

 

[The Rabbi]

I don't think the names on the list should be made available, but I do think that if I want to sell my gun to someone, I should have the option of checking the list.

yep, especially if that is the loophole we are allegedly trying to close. so are we ready to start creating siuch lists and making them public? I mean, that is what anti gun liberals are really suggesting

Ultimately, they just want to take your guns. I don't care what they say. All of these half-steps are just a stop on the road to confiscation. So, I don't try to spend too much time trying to untangle their convoluted knots.

But, for law abiding citizens who wish (again it's optional) do a background check to make sure the person they are selling to is not on the bad guy list, the same list that dealers check should be available to private owners for a nominal fee.

There is no "list" that dealers check. I'm a dealer, so I know.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't think the names on the list should be made available, but I do think that if I want to sell my gun to someone, I should have the option of checking the list.

You already ahve the option of taking the gun and the buyer to a licensed dealer to do the background check.

That's not too easy and you have to pay a transfer fee.

Would the government making a list mean you aren't going to have to pay for it? Are you really that confused about economics?

 

[Tech_Esq]

What is the alleged purpose of this list? I mean other than notify the gov't whose house needs to be raided first.
Does anyone really think criminals will declare their guns?

The list is just the one we already have now. The difference is who has access to check against the list. The return being, yes you can sell to this individual or no you cannot sell to this individual. The list would just be everyone you shouldn't sell to so I'm not sure how it would help you figure out who to raid. Most of the list would be felons. They probably have guns anyway, being as how they're criminals. Probably ought to check the crazies too. So, I don't think it helps in the raiding area.

The law specifically prohibits the government from making a list, which explains why no one has access to it.

When they do a background check, they check you against a database. That's all I'm talking about. Other people brought up "list" and I didn't want to confuse them by changing terms on them.

 

[Tech_Esq]

yep, especially if that is the loophole we are allegedly trying to close. so are we ready to start creating siuch lists and making them public? I mean, that is what anti gun liberals are really suggesting

Ultimately, they just want to take your guns. I don't care what they say. All of these half-steps are just a stop on the road to confiscation. So, I don't try to spend too much time trying to untangle their convoluted knots.

But, for law abiding citizens who wish (again it's optional) do a background check to make sure the person they are selling to is not on the bad guy list, the same list that dealers check should be available to private owners for a nominal fee.

There is no "list" that dealers check. I'm a dealer, so I know.

There is a database right? A database is just a fancy list. I'm a computer guy, so I know.

 

[The Rabbi]

Ultimately, they just want to take your guns. I don't care what they say. All of these half-steps are just a stop on the road to confiscation. So, I don't try to spend too much time trying to untangle their convoluted knots.

But, for law abiding citizens who wish (again it's optional) do a background check to make sure the person they are selling to is not on the bad guy list, the same list that dealers check should be available to private owners for a nominal fee.

There is no "list" that dealers check. I'm a dealer, so I know.

There is a database right? A database is just a fancy list. I'm a computer guy, so I know.

That is incorrect.

 

[Tech_Esq]

You already ahve the option of taking the gun and the buyer to a licensed dealer to do the background check.

That's not too easy and you have to pay a transfer fee.

Would the government making a list mean you aren't going to have to pay for it? Are you really that confused about economics?

I don't want anything substantial that doesn't already exist. In Virginia, and I realize we've led the way in non-intrusive checks, there is a database and has been since 1989. We started doing instant background checks back then. There is not waiting period or anything like that in VA. They check you and you walk out of the store with your gun. After VA Tech, they included people that had been adjudicated mentally unstable in the database. You may do it differently elsewhere, that's the way we do it here.

All I think is they should have a web front end and a web app for private people who wish to use the system. I really don't get the issue. Is it 100%? nope, and I don't want it to be because that's UBC or guns registration by any other name. I want it to be available and optional. If I want to give my gun to my son, would I use it, no. I know him. I know what he's been up to. But, if I wanna sell my gun to the guy that lives around the corner, I'd wanna check him out because I don't really know him that well. Yes, I could take the both of us down to some gun dealer 10 miles away and pay the dealer a transfer fee and all that BS, but why? How about I go to my computer, log in to the State background check system, put dude's info in there and let it tell me if I should sell or not? Then just complete the transaction without leaving the comfort of my home.

Now, as long as we're talking about it, I'd like to add a few things like mandatory destruction of all records for guns (what is it now, you have to keep them 20 years?) let's destroy them when they hit 7 years. Also, any trace left by the background check must be purged from the system within 6 months. If you haven't figured out you have a problem in less time than that, tough.

 

[Tech_Esq]

There is no "list" that dealers check. I'm a dealer, so I know.

There is a database right? A database is just a fancy list. I'm a computer guy, so I know.

That is incorrect.

Maybe you don't have one in TN, but we do in VA

 

[The Rabbi]

There is a database right? A database is just a fancy list. I'm a computer guy, so I know.

That is incorrect.

Maybe you don't have one in TN, but we do in VA

No, you don't.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here.

 

[Tech_Esq]

This is what we have:

Virginia Firearms Transaction Program

 

[Tech_Esq]

That is incorrect.

Maybe you don't have one in TN, but we do in VA

No, you don't.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here.

From the link in my previous:

This program was the first of its type in the nation. Virginia was able to implement this program because the Central Criminal Records Exchange (CCRE) maintained by the Virginia State Police is one of the most complete records repositories in the nation and provides the database for the VFTP. Virginia’s program was expanded to include the requirements of the federal National Instant Background System (NICS) on November 30, 1998,

emphasis added

 

[The Rabbi]

This is what we have:

Virginia Firearms Transaction Program

Yes. Read your own link. There is not one database of prohibited people.

 

[Tech_Esq]

That is incorrect.

Maybe you don't have one in TN, but we do in VA

No, you don't.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here.

Also from that link:

National and state databases are accessed simultaneously at the time of transaction. Four are maintained by the Virginia Department of State Police, accessible by the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN): Virginia’s wanted and missing persons files and protective orders, Virginia’s criminal history record files, and Virginia’s database of adjudications of legal incompetence and incapacity, involuntary commitments to mental institutions for inpatient or outpatient treatment.

The fifth database accessed during this check is the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) which searches the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) consisting of the Wanted Persons File, Protection Order File, Interstate Identification Index (III), Deported Felons File, US Secret Service Protective File, Foreign Fugitive File, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms’ Violent Felon File, and NICS indexes: Illegal/Unlawful Aliens File, Mental Defectives/Commitments File, Dishonorable Discharges, Citizenship Renunciants, Controlled Substance Abuse File and Denied Persons File.

Databases galore! I'll accept rep in lieu of apology

 

[Tech_Esq]

This is what we have:

Virginia Firearms Transaction Program

Yes. Read your own link. There is not one database of prohibited people.

I'm pretty sure I didn't concern myself with that aspect (number of databases). Hell, I didn't even bother to say they were databases, which clearly I knew. i was just trying to get people to stop talking about publishing the contents of any list on the Internet which is what they were talking about doing earlier in the thread.

I will say that I didn't know it was 5 databases. i thought it was just two. But, I'm still up on you, cuz you didn't think there were any.

 

[The Rabbi]

Maybe you don't have one in TN, but we do in VA

No, you don't.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here.

Also from that link:

National and state databases are accessed simultaneously at the time of transaction. Four are maintained by the Virginia Department of State Police, accessible by the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN): Virginia’s wanted and missing persons files and protective orders, Virginia’s criminal history record files, and Virginia’s database of adjudications of legal incompetence and incapacity, involuntary commitments to mental institutions for inpatient or outpatient treatment.

The fifth database accessed during this check is the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) which searches the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) consisting of the Wanted Persons File, Protection Order File, Interstate Identification Index (III), Deported Felons File, US Secret Service Protective File, Foreign Fugitive File, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms’ Violent Felon File, and NICS indexes: Illegal/Unlawful Aliens File, Mental Defectives/Commitments File, Dishonorable Discharges, Citizenship Renunciants, Controlled Substance Abuse File and Denied Persons File.

Databases galore! I'll accept rep in lieu of apology

As I said, there is no list. There is not a database. There are a number of them.
You can apologize for wasting everyone's time here.

 

[Tech_Esq]

No, you don't.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here.

Also from that link:

National and state databases are accessed simultaneously at the time of transaction. Four are maintained by the Virginia Department of State Police, accessible by the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN): Virginia’s wanted and missing persons files and protective orders, Virginia’s criminal history record files, and Virginia’s database of adjudications of legal incompetence and incapacity, involuntary commitments to mental institutions for inpatient or outpatient treatment.

The fifth database accessed during this check is the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) which searches the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) consisting of the Wanted Persons File, Protection Order File, Interstate Identification Index (III), Deported Felons File, US Secret Service Protective File, Foreign Fugitive File, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms’ Violent Felon File, and NICS indexes: Illegal/Unlawful Aliens File, Mental Defectives/Commitments File, Dishonorable Discharges, Citizenship Renunciants, Controlled Substance Abuse File and Denied Persons File.

Databases galore! I'll accept rep in lieu of apology

As I said, there is no list. There is not a database. There are a number of them.
You can apologize for wasting everyone's time here.

Well, I never said there was one list, but if you really think you won, then OK. I'm sorry everyone for wasting your time.

 

[The Rabbi]

Also from that link:



Databases galore! I'll accept rep in lieu of apology

As I said, there is no list. There is not a database. There are a number of them.
You can apologize for wasting everyone's time here.

Well, I never said there was one list, but if you really think you won, then OK. I'm sorry everyone for wasting your time.

So in post 142 you didnt write this:

I don't think the names on the list should be made available, but I do think that if I want to sell my gun to someone, I should have the option of checking the list.

You can apologize now for lying in your posts.

 

[Tech_Esq]

As I said, there is no list. There is not a database. There are a number of them.
You can apologize for wasting everyone's time here.

Well, I never said there was one list, but if you really think you won, then OK. I'm sorry everyone for wasting your time.

So in post 142 you didnt write this:

I don't think the names on the list should be made available, but I do think that if I want to sell my gun to someone, I should have the option of checking the list.

You can apologize now for lying in your posts.

Ok, now we're officially wasting peoples time.

As I said before, I wasn't not focused on the technical aspect of what was being checked. The point at that time was that people were talking about posting the LIST of people on the Internet so everyone could see who not to sell guns to.

I said list, because they said list. Nobody was talking about the technical aspect of how a background check got done before you jumped on the thread and made it an issue. And then you had a bunch of wrong information to share about how there were no databases and no database gets checked.

Now you apologize for wasting everyone's time with bad info, thread jumping and bring up BS that doesn't have anything to do with what's being talked about.

 

[The Rabbi]

You screw up because you blab about stuff you don't understand and I should apologize? No, I don't think so.