Union Card Bill Bringing on Bullies?

[Indiana Oracle]

Garyd--
Not sure whether your post was for me. In case it was, I fully agree with you.

 

[Diuretic]

most morons ARE tools

not all

What's the difference?

some morons are too moronic to be useful

take chris/kirk and sealybobo
no one takes them seriously on any political spectrum

That's the problem with extremists, they may drag out our minds out to breaking point but in so doing they risk being labelled as unrealistic idiots. And that isn't fair. If it wasn't for crackpots (not nice label but one I'll use as a colloquialism) we would have no progress.

 

[Diuretic]

As others have already posted, unions were started as a necessary counterbalance to abusive labor business practices. Labor and workplace-related laws have pretty much taken up that slack in the minds of many people. In that sense it is not surprising that unions have lost currency.

But there remains a segment (shrinking) who still carry around a Marxist mindset on labor issues. What I have observed is that this has been and continues to underlie much of the philosophy of union leadership. Within that context, actively taught in many of our schools, is that business is bad and, basically, should be brought down. Making the whole thing sound like the French or Bolshevik Revolution.

This, in my view, is a complete load. What we need are outsourcing justification laws. Some good posts were made in a string on that topic. Also see good things in what Geithner recently proposed.

Realize this perspective may make me sound like a socialist. Not the case. Man's fallen nature requires that we establish laws to curb his behavior. For the aethists reading this, in principle, that is what the Judeo-Christian religions are about as well, but that is another topic.

Regarding card check specifically, it is a ticket for abuse and could lead to violent social conflict. I must say one thing for The Prophet, though: he is loyal and pays his political debts.

Any Marxist or leftist influence in the US labour movement was stamped out by Gompers. The left has no major influence in the movement. There may well be individuals who hold those views but I would be interested, and I mean this, to see any Marxists or even leftist influence in any US labour/trade union today.

 

[Diuretic]

Dude I've been in Manufacturing since 1978. I've run turret lathes that are older than most of the people here, and I can program and set up CNC lathes. I make as much or more now than I ever have and while it is tough to get by sometimes with only one salary - the wife does volunteer work - the primary reason for that is the fact that thanks to you lefties there is now a false floor under the labor market and we pay people to sit home and watch TV more than minimum wage. Government programs cause inflation not corporations and small business.

I've worked for some damn fine people and I've worked for some unbelievable ass hats. The former predominate.

I'm interested in your idea of a "false floor" in the labour market.


Separate to that point, you're a skilled worker but how are your wage rates set?

 

[TheNilvarg]

Union labor should illegal just as gang violence is. Unions are just a bunch of thugs who sabotage business, undermine free enterprise, and threaten people to get their way.

Bunch of lowlifes.

 

[Old Rocks]

Union labor should illegal just as gang violence is. Unions are just a bunch of thugs who sabotage business, undermine free enterprise, and threaten people to get their way.

Bunch of lowlifes.

Love you too, fellow.

 

[garyd]

Di it's called minimum wage. The reason I reference it as a false floor is two fold. First, until you are making about 2 to three times minimum wage you are living a hand to mouth existance and frankly whatever dollar value you set for minimum wage the law of supply and demand will ensure that it won't be enough to live on.

 

[Diuretic]

So minimum wage is the lowest that anyone can paid for any job they happen to be doing?

 

[DiveCon]

So minimum wage is the lowest that anyone can paid for any job they happen to be doing?

yes, and even most burger flipper jobs pay more than minimum

 

[Diuretic]

And how is the minimum wage set?

 

[DiveCon]

the national minimum is set by congress

states can set a higher minimum by acts of their legislatures

 

[Diuretic]

And how do they calculate it?

Sorry to keep asking - I don't know the answers.

 

[DiveCon]

meh, they pull number out of their ass

i guess

cause no one could ever live on minimum wage for very long
not if they had a family to support

minimum wage jobs are supposed to be either teens working part time or entry level no skill jobs

 

[editec]

All one has to do is look at the balance of trade and you'll understand exactly why this nation is going down, folks.

Our masters, who are richer than at any time in history, sold the American people down the river.

You clueless minions who hate unions and love free trade do more to destroy this nation than all the terrorists in the world combined.

Most of you won't get it until you jobs are gone, but mark my words, your fate and the fate of the american working classes are one and the same.

 

[RightofCenter]

editec: I am far from clueless. FAR.

At the ripe old age of 14, I got a job bagging groceries at the local store. I was told, after starting the job, either join the union or I would be let go. I was forced, at 14, to join the Amalgamated Meat Cutters Union, so I could bag groceries. What a joke!

Since that day, I vowed I would be self employed, work for myself and NEVER pay a union another cent. And I never did. Ever. Other than my stint in the military, I owned my own businesses and fought my own battles.

However, since my experience at 14, I have watched with interest what unions are doing to the USA, and my interest has lead me to watch how corrupt, vile and crippling they are.

Strikes are nothing more than spoiled children stamping their feet demanding more money. Union bosses threaten companies with shutdowns if they don't meet union demands. Unions are NOT concerned with the quality of the product their employees are paid huge wages to produce, only in making sure the employees get insanely high wages so the union gets a cut, therefore ensuring its own livelihood. Unions must get their people more money all the time, or the union members will be faced with the reality that the unions aren't doing their job, and that would give people a reason to question why they belong to a union.

Unions HAD a place in America. Unions are about as out of control as say, fully loaded semi trucks that are screaming down the side of a mountain, flailing, crashing, dust and smoke everywhere.

People get angry that American companies are outsourcing. Why do you suppose they do that? UNIONS, thats why. Unions aren't God's angels sent to save the world, unions are greedy demanding groups of ever growing birds with their mouths open, squawking " feed me, FEEEEEEED ME!!"

 

[007]

There is no need for Unions. Corporations will always look out for their people.

This has nothing to do with productivity increasing in the last 20+ years and real wages going down.

Damn union. Next they might hire people to beat you up like the union busters did originally.

If unions are so awsome why do the need to intimidate people to join doyathink?

Fair question. There's no place for intimidation. But there is a place, as I understand how it operates in the US, for advocacy. I've seen some materials from the AFL-CIO on recruiting (admittedly some years ago) but while there was a lot of material on advocacy there was nothing there about intimidation, as you would expect. If an organiser is using intimidation then they need to be removed from the campaign. But one person's "intimidation" might well be another's "advocacy".

I used to be a member of the AFL-CIO, and by Wisconsin law I was supposed to have a choice as to whether or not to join. But if I wanted the job, I had to join the union. This was accepted even though everyone knew it was against the law. One person just wasn't going to do squat to change it. But, I did tell them, in writing, to NOT use my union dues towards ANY democrat campaigns. Pissed them off but, they pissed me off forcing me to join their stinking union.

Todays unions aren't much different from any other gang of crocked thugs, which includes our government. Ta' hell with little people. It's all about those at the top getting richer, come hell or high water.

 

[editec]

People get angry that American companies are outsourcing. Why do you suppose they do that? UNIONS, thats why. Unions aren't God's angels sent to save the world, unions are greedy demanding groups of ever growing birds with their mouths open, squawking " feed me, FEEEEEEED ME!!"

They're outsoursing because THEY CAN.

Get off you knees, slave.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

Diuretec --
Do not agree that far-left ideology in the union leadership has been stamped out. Will cite one example: the dock worker's union in San Francisco (which Pelosi has heavily supported in the past). If one researches this from both political sides it is hard to deny. What I will grant is that they have done a very good job in covering it up.

Right now they are more concerned about survival. In my view that will change with card check. That is the point of my post.

 

[RightofCenter]

editec: I have quickly come to the conclusion you have nothing intellectual to add to this conversation and as a result, am going to ignore your silly and childish commentary that has NO relationship to anything I said, or anyone else, for that matter.

You go ahead and think unions are just peachy. In my mind, it makes you a lemming.

You know WHY unions like family men and women in the unions? Because they know that person is married to their job. If that worker stays in that union, they will make 10s of $1000s of dollars in union dues, just off that one person in their working lifetime. Married people, people with families, people with kids, all are standard issue union people. Why? Because they need money and they believe that unions are great because they will cripple a company to get their workers more money. Thats truly unethical and if unions fail, its because they were too blind to see what they were doing to the hand that fed them.

 

[TheNilvarg]

editec: I am far from clueless. FAR.

At the ripe old age of 14, I got a job bagging groceries at the local store. I was told, after starting the job, either join the union or I would be let go. I was forced, at 14, to join the Amalgamated Meat Cutters Union, so I could bag groceries. What a joke!

Since that day, I vowed I would be self employed, work for myself and NEVER pay a union another cent. And I never did. Ever. Other than my stint in the military, I owned my own businesses and fought my own battles.

However, since my experience at 14, I have watched with interest what unions are doing to the USA, and my interest has lead me to watch how corrupt, vile and crippling they are.

Strikes are nothing more than spoiled children stamping their feet demanding more money. Union bosses threaten companies with shutdowns if they don't meet union demands. Unions are NOT concerned with the quality of the product their employees are paid huge wages to produce, only in making sure the employees get insanely high wages so the union gets a cut, therefore ensuring its own livelihood. Unions must get their people more money all the time, or the union members will be faced with the reality that the unions aren't doing their job, and that would give people a reason to question why they belong to a union.

Unions HAD a place in America. Unions are about as out of control as say, fully loaded semi trucks that are screaming down the side of a mountain, flailing, crashing, dust and smoke everywhere.

People get angry that American companies are outsourcing. Why do you suppose they do that? UNIONS, thats why. Unions aren't God's angels sent to save the world, unions are greedy demanding groups of ever growing birds with their mouths open, squawking " feed me, FEEEEEEED ME!!"

Brilliant post to show everyone the evil of unions.

But I wouldn't bother. Editec seems to be a conspiracy troll.