Uncovered Women

[High_Gravity]

Some women think for themselves in the way they choose to obey more than to not. Some women, as do some men, find it far more productive to have a keeper at home to take care of all the needs of the home and it's environment than to *just not*.

Obviously, it is more about what each clan, sect, group, family finds best suiting and fitting for 'themselves' as a unit than any kind of defined and set agenda for masses in general.

There are definitely some days when it would be nice to have a "sister wife" at home, so I could come home and relax after work.

Women in polyamorous relationships do have that.

 

[catzmeow]

Women in polyamorous relationships do have that.

True. But, they also have to share, and that's not my strong suit.

 

[Anachronism]

So, basically, it would be like living in Saudi Arabia? Yeah. You and Sunni should create your own society in rural alaska and live like kings with whatever women will have you.

Sort of. Not quite to that extreme, but it would be much closer to that than to modern American society. Alaska is a no-go for me. Rural North or South Carolina or somewhere in the Southern Midwest, sure. I'm sick and tired of snow, thanks.

My kids are good citizens. They work hard in school and are generally good people. I fail to see the dangerously detrimental effects of my female liberation. As far as my guy goes, he isn't attracted to unliberated women. He wanted a partner, not a domestic servant.

Again, I'm sure your kids are good people as well. The problem is that American society was not built on this type of social structure. It was built on a Patriarchal structure that used it to ensure that morals, values, and decency remained the standards of society. Like the single crack in the dam, feminism started a trend that threatens to wash away the entirety of American Society.

That's fine, for you. But, when you attempt to enforce your views on larger society, then you can sod off.

That's fine, so long as you understand that it also means I don't have to agree with, like, enjoy, or even deal with those who disagree with my point of view. There are certain businesses I won't frequent because of my beliefs. This makes my life rather annoying at times, but it is what I believe in.

Interesting. I see my partner and I back to back, protecting each other's weak points and prepared to take on the world (both armed, of course).

Then we see the world very differently. I see it as me standing in the doorway ready to take on all comers to protect her and what is ours. She knows how to use the weapons but understands that they're an absolute last resort for her.

I would think that you could find them within a Christian religious congregation, but are you pagan? Pagan girls are few and far between and most are of the fluffy wiccan variation, as you know.

I'm spiritual, not religious. I grew up in a devoutly Christian family but almost 10 years ago I completely and totally lost my faith. I spent almost two years researching and visiting different organized religious groups before I came to the realization that organized religion wasn't going to provide what I needed. I would consider myself a spiritual moralist more than anything else.

Meh. Southern reconstructionists.

No. They went South to FIGHT with the Confederate Army during the war.

 

[Foxfyre]

Some women think for themselves in the way they choose to obey more than to not. Some women, as do some men, find it far more productive to have a keeper at home to take care of all the needs of the home and it's environment than to *just not*.

Obviously, it is more about what each clan, sect, group, family finds best suiting and fitting for 'themselves' as a unit than any kind of defined and set agenda for masses in general.

There are definitely some days when it would be nice to have a "sister wife" at home, so I could come home and relax after work.

I always said if I had a good wife I would have it made. So Mr. Foxfyre decided to retire and be a house husband while I was still working. He did all the marketing, cleaning, cooking for most of a year before we formed our own business. I learned to eat some really strange things but it was great while it lasted.

(He learned the hard way for instance that you can't substitute worchestershire sauce for soy sauce just because they're both brown. )

 

[catzmeow]

Sort of. Not quite to that extreme, but it would be much closer to that than to modern American society. Alaska is a no-go for me. Rural North or South Carolina or somewhere in the Southern Midwest, sure. I'm sick and tired of snow, thanks.

Land's cheap in Mississippi. Perhaps you can create your own little trailer enclave.

I loved Alaska when I was there last summer, absolutely beautiful, and people have the space to live without a lot of government interference. But yeah, the weather sucks.

Again, I'm sure your kids are good people as well. The problem is that American society was not built on this type of social structure. It was built on a Patriarchal structure that used it to ensure that morals, values, and decency remained the standards of society. Like the single crack in the dam, feminism started a trend that threatens to wash away the entirety of American Society.

America is stronger than that. America is the borg that takes the best, assimilates it, and keeps on trucking.

As far as the changes in our society, change is the one true constant in human history. Transitions are the roughest (and that's where we find ourselves), but things will eventually stabilize.

That's fine, so long as you understand that it also means I don't have to agree with, like, enjoy, or even deal with those who disagree with my point of view. There are certain businesses I won't frequent because of my beliefs. This makes my life rather annoying at times, but it is what I believe in.

I'm totally cool with that. There's a reason I don't shop at Walmart. Actually, there are several.

Then we see the world very differently. I see it as me standing in the doorway ready to take on all comers to protect her and what is ours. She knows how to use the weapons but understands that they're an absolute last resort for her.

What makes internet forums enjoyable...different perspectives.

I'm spiritual, not religious. I grew up in a devoutly Christian family but almost 10 years ago I completely and totally lost my faith. I spent almost two years researching and visiting different organized religious groups before I came to the realization that organized religion wasn't going to provide what I needed. I would consider myself a spiritual moralist more than anything else.

So, essentially an agnostic asatruar?

No. They went South to FIGHT with the Confederate Army during the war.

I didn't mean him. I meant you (yankee with delusions about the goodness of the confederacy/south).

 

[Anachronism]

I don't know why men would prefer a woman who can't think for herself and just stands there until ordered to do something, I prefer a woman who can think for herself and support herself.

If that's what you're getting out of my comments you're not getting what I'm saying. Go back and re-read the Norse comment.

Well, they do knock on the door, once you've ordered their services.

jillian has no idea what she's talking about. She's one of the members of my Ignore List. I don't value sex sufficiently to pay for it. It's a nice little add-on, but nowhere near the top of the important parts of a relationship in my mind.

In some twisted way, I think it's because for a lot of men, their masculinity depends on women. Without that external affirmation from the woman in his life, the guy doesn't feel truly masculine. She has to bow down for him to stand tall.

Guys I've known who are actually comfortable in their own manliness (my dad is a good example; my boyfriend is another) don't have to go around making a big production about how manly they are. They just are.

Again, I go back to the coin analogy. Without both sides of the coin, the piece of metal has no real value. A real Man should want a good woman in His life the same way a real woman should want a good Man in her life. Kinda makes sense to me.

 

[CitizenPained]

I can't help but wonder if you are only asking this to be spiteful. In any case, I will try to answer.

As long as the father is asking her to act Godly. If he is asking her to act more modest and decent then yes. However, if he is asking her to act whorish and slutty then no. The daughter would know if the father is asking her to act Godly or not.

I have not read anything that says she has to move back into her father's house. However, is one verse where the daughter was told to go live with her father and another one where it states 'if' the daughter was to go back to live with her father. Neither one is saying that if the daughter is a widow she 'has' to.

Gen 38:11 Then said Judah to Tamar his daughter in law, Remain a widow at thy father's house, till Shelah my son be grown: for he said, Lest peradventure he die also, as his brethren did. And Tamar went and dwelt in her father's house.

Lev 22:13 But if the priest's daughter be a widow, or divorced, and have no child, and is returned unto her father's house, as in her youth, she shall eat of her father's meat: but there shall no stranger eat thereof.

Again, if the father is asking her these things due to the fact he wants her to be more Godly then yes. However, we are told that if a woman is widowed under a certain age she should remarry. So if she is under that age then the father can not tell her she can not date.

Also if she is not living in her father's house, then it would be hard for her not to work to pay her own bills.

And as to her clothes, if she is a Godly woman her father should not have to tell her what to wear.

First off, I'm going to be brutally honest. I think your views are whack, and I wouldn't tolerate a man attempting to tell me what to do. My dad gives me great advice, but I don't answer to him.

However, in my opinion, you have every right to follow your conscience in your personal life and matters of faith, as long as you extend that same right to other people. I find your beliefs interesting. I grew up fundy, but the fundy I grew up with is fundy-lite in comparison to your beliefs. I don't say that to be disrespectful.

Why do you think that your faith puts women in such a subordinate role? Does it have to do with Eve or something else? Do you think that women are inherently incompetent to live without a minder?

The main reason why women are 'returned' to their fathers is so that they are not left starving. It's not like women were big income-earners 5,000 years ago. However, there are also provisions in the Torah that command you to provide for the widow, so apparently there was some leeway.

You also have to consider why the Bible is so patriarchal. It just makes sense. Backwards as they sound now, the laws of Deut. and Lev. worked out very well for about five millienia.

Keep in mind that there's a flip side: Men have to work and support the family and bear the responsibility of being 'in charge' (eg, something goes wrong, its his fault). So while it sounds fucked up to want a woman to be 'subservient' to you, women today still do everything they can to attract men - especially the big income earners.

Today, women have to be it all: good jobs and families and hot. There are a few times in my life where I wish I had been born in a different time for sure.

my .02.

 

[Anachronism]

Land's cheap in Mississippi. Perhaps you can create your own little trailer enclave.

Not big on the trailer thing. I'm more of a 2 bedroom apartment or small rental condo type.

America is stronger than that. America is the borg that takes the best, assimilates it, and keeps on trucking.

As far as the changes in our society, change is the one true constant in human history. Transitions are the roughest (and that's where we find ourselves), but things will eventually stabilize.

Change is something I have no real use for and never have. My chosen screenname should make that perfectly clear. My concern is what society will stabilize to... though I have the single bullet prepared for that eventuality.

I'm totally cool with that. There's a reason I don't shop at Walmart. Actually, there are several.

Ever try to find a bank with a male teller on Saturday morning? Not a pleasant experience most of the time.

What makes internet forums enjoyable...different perspectives.

So long as people are willing to have conversations and not debates. I see no need for debates.

So, essentially an agnostic asatruar?

No. Just someone who has come to his own conclusions about the Universe and the Powers that run it. My beliefs would piss off most organized religions in one way or another.

 

[AllieBaba]

See no need for debates?

What a wacko.

 

[Wingsofwind]

I can't help but wonder if you are only asking this to be spiteful. In any case, I will try to answer.

As long as the father is asking her to act Godly. If he is asking her to act more modest and decent then yes. However, if he is asking her to act whorish and slutty then no. The daughter would know if the father is asking her to act Godly or not.

I have not read anything that says she has to move back into her father's house. However, is one verse where the daughter was told to go live with her father and another one where it states 'if' the daughter was to go back to live with her father. Neither one is saying that if the daughter is a widow she 'has' to.

Gen 38:11 Then said Judah to Tamar his daughter in law, Remain a widow at thy father's house, till Shelah my son be grown: for he said, Lest peradventure he die also, as his brethren did. And Tamar went and dwelt in her father's house.

Lev 22:13 But if the priest's daughter be a widow, or divorced, and have no child, and is returned unto her father's house, as in her youth, she shall eat of her father's meat: but there shall no stranger eat thereof.

Again, if the father is asking her these things due to the fact he wants her to be more Godly then yes. However, we are told that if a woman is widowed under a certain age she should remarry. So if she is under that age then the father can not tell her she can not date.

Also if she is not living in her father's house, then it would be hard for her not to work to pay her own bills.

And as to her clothes, if she is a Godly woman her father should not have to tell her what to wear.

First off, I'm going to be brutally honest. I think your views are whack, and I wouldn't tolerate a man attempting to tell me what to do. My dad gives me great advice, but I don't answer to him.

However, in my opinion, you have every right to follow your conscience in your personal life and matters of faith, as long as you extend that same right to other people. I find your beliefs interesting. I grew up fundy, but the fundy I grew up with is fundy-lite in comparison to your beliefs. I don't say that to be disrespectful.

Why do you think that your faith puts women in such a subordinate role? Does it have to do with Eve or something else? Do you think that women are inherently incompetent to live without a minder?

Catzmeow, I do believe you do have the right to live as you wish as long as it is not pushed on me also. I was only responding to show what I believe, not what I think everyone should live by. Not everyone are children of the Lord.

Also, I do not think that a man should attempt to tell a woman what to do, only that a woman should give the man that authority. There is a difference. A Godly woman would humble herself to be in the role the Lord gave her.

The role the Lord gave women does have something to do with Eve, however, He gave man and woman certain roles so that there would be order. When a house has two who want to lead they will tend to step on each other's toes. Ever hear the saying "It's never a good idea to share command."? This is the main reason the Lord gave us the roles we are to follow.

(I will be gone for the next 3 days, so I will not be responding till around Fri. or Sat.)

 

[Douger]

The bible was written by man. Nuff said.

And edited by King James. The Script is HIS version.

 

[Iridescence]

I can't help but wonder if you are only asking this to be spiteful. In any case, I will try to answer.

As long as the father is asking her to act Godly. If he is asking her to act more modest and decent then yes. However, if he is asking her to act whorish and slutty then no. The daughter would know if the father is asking her to act Godly or not.

I have not read anything that says she has to move back into her father's house. However, is one verse where the daughter was told to go live with her father and another one where it states 'if' the daughter was to go back to live with her father. Neither one is saying that if the daughter is a widow she 'has' to.



Again, if the father is asking her these things due to the fact he wants her to be more Godly then yes. However, we are told that if a woman is widowed under a certain age she should remarry. So if she is under that age then the father can not tell her she can not date.

Also if she is not living in her father's house, then it would be hard for her not to work to pay her own bills.

And as to her clothes, if she is a Godly woman her father should not have to tell her what to wear.

First off, I'm going to be brutally honest. I think your views are whack, and I wouldn't tolerate a man attempting to tell me what to do. My dad gives me great advice, but I don't answer to him.

However, in my opinion, you have every right to follow your conscience in your personal life and matters of faith, as long as you extend that same right to other people. I find your beliefs interesting. I grew up fundy, but the fundy I grew up with is fundy-lite in comparison to your beliefs. I don't say that to be disrespectful.

Why do you think that your faith puts women in such a subordinate role? Does it have to do with Eve or something else? Do you think that women are inherently incompetent to live without a minder?

Catzmeow, I do believe you do have the right to live as you wish as long as it is not pushed on me also. I was only responding to show what I believe, not what I think everyone should live by. Not everyone are children of the Lord.

Also, I do not think that a man should attempt to tell a woman what to do, only that a woman should give the man that authority. There is a difference. A Godly woman would humble herself to be in the role the Lord gave her.

The role the Lord gave women does have something to do with Eve, however, He gave man and woman certain roles so that there would be order. When a house has two who want to lead they will tend to step on each other's toes. Ever hear the saying "It's never a good idea to share command."? This is the main reason the Lord gave us the roles we are to follow.

(I will be gone for the next 3 days, so I will not be responding till around Fri. or Sat.)

I'd be most interested in finding what the definition of 'Godly' is to individual posters as it seems to be quite different by perception. Also, when a woman comes from something it may very well represent Godly living whereas she may marry astray and yet that come to be a renewing for her instead of rebellion. 'Going back to ones father' is also a form of preservation. If she is to marry again having had the consistency of a counterpart, even that of her father represents a good level of spiritual preservation and protection. It isn't belittling or demeaning to the woman it is in observance of the fact that she is PRECIOUS and a GEM worthy of the men within her life to fulfill their roles as her counterparts.

The bible was written by man. Nuff said.

And edited by King James. The Script is HIS version.

Hmmm Such an amazing potential yet unfound....

 

[Anachronism]

I was only responding to show what I believe, not what I think everyone should live by. Not everyone are children of the Lord.

True, not everyone is a "child of the Lord". However, that does not alleviate them from the necessity to live a Moral and Decent life. I have never found anything spiritual or philosophical that would negate any individual's requirement to lead a Proper life. At least not unless they are actively seeking the permanent destruction of their Soul.

Also, I do not think that a man should attempt to tell a woman what to do, only that a woman should give the man that authority. There is a difference. A Godly woman would humble herself to be in the role the Lord gave her.

True, it is much easier and less problematic when the woman chooses to accept the authority of the Man in her life; but when she does not is it not His place to enforce not only His will but the will of nature and the world upon her? For her own good as well as His.

The role the Lord gave women does have something to do with Eve, however, He gave man and woman certain roles so that there would be order. When a house has two who want to lead they will tend to step on each other's toes. Ever hear the saying "It's never a good idea to share command."? This is the main reason the Lord gave us the roles we are to follow.

Very, very true. A partnership that is truly 50/50 is doomed to failure because there is no means to break a tie in the voting. Someone must lead and the other must follow. That doesn't mean the same person must lead in every situation or instance, but it does mean that a true 50/50 relationship or partnership is doomed to failure.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The women is the equal with the man in a relationship, before God, and in society. Any who attempt to dominate one sex by the other practices unrighteous dominion before the Lord and is unclean.

 

[Anachronism]

The women is the equal with the man in a relationship, before God, and in society. Any who attempt to dominate one sex by the other practices unrighteous dominion before the Lord and is unclean.

LOL. I wasted 27 years on your "Lord" before I wised up. My father wasted 54 years to the day on that worthless CRAP and even on his deathbed he wasn't able to smarten up. Your "Lord" doesn't give a rats ass about you or anyone else on this worthless planet.

Religion is a dupe. Morality and Philosophy are where the real Truth lie, Jake. I learned that the hard way after wasting more than a quarter century on religion. Smarten up my good man; before you waste your entire life like my father did.

The Truth is that Men and women are NOT the same. We were never intended to be; and to attempt to make Men and women the same is an afront to nature and the Powers that hold dominion over this world. We are different physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and philosophically. To attempt to say that we are even more than marginally the same is ludicrous.

 

[Moonglow]

I don't know why men would prefer a woman who can't think for herself and just stands there until ordered to do something, I prefer a woman who can think for herself and support herself.

If that's what you're getting out of my comments you're not getting what I'm saying. Go back and re-read the Norse comment.

Well, they do knock on the door, once you've ordered their services.

jillian has no idea what she's talking about. She's one of the members of my Ignore List. I don't value sex sufficiently to pay for it. It's a nice little add-on, but nowhere near the top of the important parts of a relationship in my mind.

In some twisted way, I think it's because for a lot of men, their masculinity depends on women. Without that external affirmation from the woman in his life, the guy doesn't feel truly masculine. She has to bow down for him to stand tall.

Guys I've known who are actually comfortable in their own manliness (my dad is a good example; my boyfriend is another) don't have to go around making a big production about how manly they are. They just are.

Again, I go back to the coin analogy. Without both sides of the coin, the piece of metal has no real value. A real Man should want a good woman in His life the same way a real woman should want a good Man in her life. Kinda makes sense to me.

not everyone is you, thank goodness, what a boring world that would be.

 

[Anachronism]

not everyone is you, thank goodness, what a boring world that would be.

Better a boring world of Decency than an interesting world full of filth and trash like you espouse.

 

[JakeStarkey]

How sad that you never discovered that the answer exists within you. The Lord is not a deistic god, not a doom or destiny or fate. The Lord does exist and simply wants nothing more than you to serve the universal by serving others selflessly. Morality and Philosophy are part of that universal good, so maybe you will come in by another door. I certainly hope so.

 

[Iridescence]

The women is the equal with the man in a relationship, before God, and in society. Any who attempt to dominate one sex by the other practices unrighteous dominion before the Lord and is unclean.

LOL. I wasted 27 years on your "Lord" before I wised up. My father wasted 54 years to the day on that worthless CRAP and even on his deathbed he wasn't able to smarten up. Your "Lord" doesn't give a rats ass about you or anyone else on this worthless planet.

Religion is a dupe. Morality and Philosophy are where the real Truth lie, Jake. I learned that the hard way after wasting more than a quarter century on religion. Smarten up my good man; before you waste your entire life like my father did.

The Truth is that Men and women are NOT the same. We were never intended to be; and to attempt to make Men and women the same is an afront to nature and the Powers that hold dominion over this world. We are different physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and philosophically. To attempt to say that we are even more than marginally the same is ludicrous.

I am sorry that was your experience. BUT it isn't everyone's and your reality won't change someone else's truth for what they make of it.

 

[Anachronism]

How sad that you never discovered that the answer exists within you. The Lord is not a deistic god, not a doom or destiny or fate. The Lord does exist and simply wants nothing more than you to serve the universal by serving others selflessly. Morality and Philosophy are part of that universal good, so maybe you will come in by another door. I certainly hope so.

Oh, your Lord exists. Of that I have no doubt, Jake. I'm just telling you that he doesn't give a fuck about you, your life, or anything else on this worthless ball of rock.

Tough to serve the "universal good" when I'm spending all my time trying to keep my own head above water. Especially when it's supposedly your Lord who put me in the position to have to do so.

Don't hope too hard and don't waste your time praying for me. I'd rather spend an Eternity in Hell than a single moment in the presence of your Lord & God.

I am sorry that was your experience. BUT it isn't everyone's and your reality won't change someone else's truth for what they make of it.

No, my experience won't change anyone else's truth. At least not until the stand in Judgement and their eyes are open to the reality of Truth. My only hope is that in that moment many of you realize that the Truth WAS revealed to you in some very small way during your life. Who knows, maybe it will even sink in deep enough for you to remember it in your next life.