Zone1 Unbeliever: You Are Responsible

[LibertyKid]

And here is a perfect example of the conundrum that Christianity runs into when the narrative of infallible and inerrant are taken...

Why are Christians opposed to abortion when God.....when God killed ALL babies in the great flood of Noah's Ark flood fame?​

Zone1 - Why are Christians opposed to abortion when God.....

when God killed ALL babies in the great flood of Noah's Ark flood fame? I write this not to anger people, if you're not interested in discussing it, then don't. Keep your religion to yourself and move on. I write this because I've had a conversation in another thread and thought it might be a...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Red Front]

There are the traditional laws and oral laws. Oral laws were treated as "Scripture" even though they were not initially written down by Moses. For example: Ten commandments state to observe the sabbath day. But what is left out is "How". The oral traditions of "How" were treated as divinely inspired as the written laws.

Thus when Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath, he was breaking a Oral Law of the Torah.

He wasn't breaking any of the rulings of the Sanhedrin, which is where the oral law was enforced, studied and later written as the Mishna. Jesus didn't violate halacha, he only "violated" false, man-made traditions, falsely portrayed as "law", but without authority or any legitimacy.

 

[LibertyKid]

He wasn't breaking any of the rulings of the Sanhedrin, which is where the oral law was enforced, studied and later written as the Mishna. Jesus didn't violate halacha, he only "violated" false, man-made traditions, falsely portrayed as "law", but without authority or any legitimacy.

Thus, proving my point, that God was misrepresented by the Jews.

 

[SweetSue92]

And here is a perfect example of the conundrum that Christianity runs into when the narrative of infallible and inerrant are taken...

Why are Christians opposed to abortion when God.....when God killed ALL babies in the great flood of Noah's Ark flood fame?​

Zone1 - Why are Christians opposed to abortion when God.....

when God killed ALL babies in the great flood of Noah's Ark flood fame? I write this not to anger people, if you're not interested in discussing it, then don't. Keep your religion to yourself and move on. I write this because I've had a conversation in another thread and thought it might be a...

www.usmessageboard.com

There are actually difficult conundrums. This is not one.

It is murder when we take a life because we never create it. God does. As the Author and Creator of life, He has the ultimate say in when life begins and ends. A mother ending her own child's life is not like God ending that life. Though she is housing that life, she did not create it.

 

[Winco]

There are actually difficult conundrums. This is not one.

It is murder when we take a life because we never create it. God does. As the Author and Creator of life, He has the ultimate say in when life begins and ends. A mother ending her own child's life is not like God ending that life. Though she is housing that life, she did not create it.

How do you feel about killing animals?
I hope you say that you don't eat any meat, because killing animals, yeah, aren't they God's Creatures too?

 

[Red Front]

There are actually difficult conundrums. This is not one.

It is murder when we take a life because we never create it. God does. As the Author and Creator of life, He has the ultimate say in when life begins and ends. A mother ending her own child's life is not like God ending that life. Though she is housing that life, she did not create it.

So God can slaughter and torture his conscious creatures and is still a God of love who is fair and just. Got it.

A zygote, embryo, or undeveloped fetus, isn't a human being. It's a potential human being, but not an actual human being. If you kill a potential human being, you're not killing a human being. So there is no murder here at all. Even in the Bible, fetuses aren't counted as equal to the women who conceived them. A woman conceives a life in her womb and has to bear the hazards and many pains of pregnancy for nine months, including the prospect of losing their only source of income. Pregnancy is dangerous and shouldn't be forced upon a woman. She should be granted the bodily autonomy to control her reproductive powers.

Those who argue that since she chose to have sex, she should be forced to remain pregnant, aren't offering a very good argument. People have sex, that's a natural function of life. There's no reason to impose chastity on women or prevent them from having control over their own bodies, including their pregnancies. We men shouldn't force women to remain pregnant, especially at the beginning of gestation.

 

[Red Front]

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   10 minutes ago
   

   Bob Blaylock​

   Diamond Member · 60 · From 38°29′ North 121°26′ West
   • Messages 30,030
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   • Points 2,915
   -------------------------------------------
   
   What did you disagree with? Be specific.
   

 

[Meriweather]

People have sex, that's a natural function of life.

So is pregnancy and giving birth. Having an abortion...not so much.

 

[Meriweather]

How do you feel about killing animals?
I hope you say that you don't eat any meat, because killing animals, yeah, aren't they God's Creatures too?

Is it your position that first we stop killing animals, then we stop killing the unborn? Could be the better argument is first we stop killing the unborn, then we consider the eating meat issue.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Members who reacted to message #586

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What did you disagree with? Be specific.​

I disagree with you denying the very humanity of the most innocent and defenseless of all human beings, in order to try to excuse the savage, cold-blooded murders of thousands of them every day, more than a million a year.

 

[Red Front]

How do you feel about killing animals?
I hope you say that you don't eat any meat, because killing animals, yeah, aren't they God's Creatures too?

Neither is treatment for cancer or some other deadly disease, right? Who's to say that science and technology, isn't an aspect of life? We have a sexual drive and it's easy to tell people to behave like nuns or monks. Even nuns and monks are sometimes overtaken by their lusts and get their "freak on" too. The bottom line is that even the Bible doesn't equate prenatal life with life that has been born and is breathing. A zygote, embryo, or undeveloped fetus isn't a human being, but rather a potential human being.

One could reasonably argue once the fetus is viable, as in able to survive outside of the womb, even with a bit of technology, without being a vegetable for life, that fetus should be identified as a prenatal human being, with rights. However, at least in the earliest stages of gestation, the woman should be granted the right to decide whether to remain pregnant or not. She's the one who is an actual human being, not the zygote, embryo, or under-developed fetus attached to her uterus. Forcing women in early pregnancy to remain pregnant when they don't want to, actually creates more death.

Moreover, the so-called "pro-lifers" are a bunch of hypocrites, pretending to be concerned with fetuses in other people's wombs while not caring much for the poor. They often vote to defund government programs that help single mothers of limited means to raise their children. These right-wing Republican politicians even vote against school lunch programs for underprivileged children and youth, who need assistance, while supporting this:

RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE.	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,136,286,466	946
2	Intel	$8,371,896,017	133
3	Ford Motor	$7,761,916,195	815
4	General Motors	$7,594,509,872	990
5	Micron Technology	$6,785,681,915	18
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7	X-Energy LLC	$5,661,511,202	17
8	General Atomics	$5,465,529,295	438
9	Cheniere Energy	$5,431,565,870	41
10	Amazon.com	$5,191,773,349	333
11	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,827,036,483	76
12	Sempra Energy	$3,835,098,001	53
13	Southern Company	$3,783,360,569	130
14	NRG Energy	$3,586,516,301	268
15	Venture Global LNG	$3,285,883,566	6
16	NextEra Energy	$3,003,823,754	117
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,836,366,619	116
18	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
19	Stellantis	$2,800,442,867	230
20	Volkswagen	$2,740,983,143	222
21	General Electric	$2,529,193,561	1,668
22	Nucor	$2,514,358,340	158
23	Walt Disney	$2,421,304,588	248
24	Brookfield Asset Management	$2,339,430,278	304
25	Toyota	$2,303,826,689	199
26	Iberdrola	$2,285,768,043	112
27	Summit Power	$2,240,568,236	8
28	Shell PLC	$2,184,517,527	141
29	Oracle	$2,167,890,528	88
30	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
31	Nike	$2,104,917,829	138
32	Hyundai Motor	$2,072,957,848	27
33	SCS Energy	$1,927,236,683	10
34	Archer Daniels Midland	$1,920,305,787	1,099
35	Exxon Mobil	$1,891,153,489	207
36	NuScale Power	$1,880,780,589	34
37	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,859,775,471	1,158
38	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	87
39	Alphabet Inc.	$1,832,565,977	116
40	Paramount Global	$1,751,801,882	317
41	Apple Inc.	$1,750,043,420	36
42	Comcast	$1,722,467,426	376
43	JPMorgan Chase	$1,663,890,873	1,129
44	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,654,401,303	137
45	Energy Transfer	$1,634,074,422	106
46	Samsung	$1,586,310,806	70
47	PG&E Corp.	$1,568,027,901	27
48	IBM Corp.	$1,562,738,626	387
49	SkyWest	$1,550,492,958	683
50	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$1,532,854,012	3
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	Panasonic	$1,385,969,341	61
53	Raytheon Technologies	$1,322,899,721	952
54	Duke Energy	$1,318,084,164	69
55	Lockheed Martin	$1,302,847,415	337
56	Corning Inc.	$1,272,628,059	395
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,266,804,354	266
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,243,857,336	32
61	Microsoft	$1,153,690,869	103
62	Jefferies Financial Group	$1,120,662,497	18
63	Meta Platforms Inc.	$1,105,098,844	53
64	Dow Inc.	$1,091,152,544	686
65	Abengoa	$1,082,660,583	63
66	SK Holdings	$1,081,550,283	9
67	LG	$1,055,690,737	103
68	Valero Energy	$1,054,520,860	199
69	Exelon	$1,040,601,369	98
70	AES Corp.	$1,010,194,632	132
71	CF Industries	$982,271,715	129
72	Pyramid Companies	$966,050,097	91
73	EDF-Electricite de France	$940,247,983	65
74	Texas Instruments	$940,071,436	60
75	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
76	Air Products & Chemicals	$897,651,105	248
77	Delta Air Lines	$876,412,623	14
78	Centene	$875,064,432	54
79	Bayer	$849,175,809	202
80	Honda	$846,026,154	91
81	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	83
82	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$826,062,285	104
83	SunEdison	$812,753,318	119
84	Apollo Global Management	$804,565,970	471
85	Goldman Sachs	$801,573,386	255
86	E.ON	$782,609,880	38
87	Wolfspeed Inc.	$773,681,732	88
88	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
89	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
90	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$725,632,525	206
91	Gotion	$715,000,000	1
92	American Electric Power	$699,673,821	92
93	Bank of America	$698,760,073	919
94	Johnson Controls	$691,180,720	144
95	Related Companies	$687,200,000	1
96	Caithness Energy	$670,379,738	28
97	Hyannis Air Service Inc.	$667,928,778	296
98	Koch Industries	$662,557,530	486
99	Sagamore Development	$660,000,000	1

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You Christians are a bunch of hypocrites. You're not the salt and light of the Earth, you're more like the excrement.

 

[Red Front]

I disagree with you denying the very humanity of the most innocent and defenseless of all human beings, in order to try to excuse the savage, cold-blooded murders of thousands of them every day, more than a million a year.

How do you figure that a zygote, embryo or under-developed fetus is a human being? Even the Hebrew bible disagrees with you.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

How do you figure that a zygote, embryo or under-developed fetus is a human being? Even the Hebrew bible disagrees with you.

It's a matter of obvious scientific fact. A living organism of the species Homo sapiens.

It's not a rotifer, or an elephant, or an oak tree. It's a human being. No different from you or I, other than as a matter of age and development.

 

[Meriweather]

Moreover, the so-called "pro-lifers" are a bunch of hypocrites, pretending to be concerned with fetuses in other people's wombs while not caring much for the poor.

Are you proposing the answer is whenever wrong-doing occurs, point to other wrongs and therefore the wrong being discussed should continue? Or is this a play to distract and change the subject?

 

[Red Front]

Are you proposing the answer is whenever wrong-doing occurs, point to other wrongs and therefore the wrong being discussed should continue? Or is this a play to distract and change the subject?

Who determined that it's wrong for a woman to end her pregnancy early? What's RICH is these self-righteous Christians pretending to care about embryos and fetuses in other people's wombs, while not giving a rats-booty, about the needs of the woman who is pregnant, maybe of limited means, who is supporting herself through her job, and now she's being forced to remain pregnant and carry that life in her womb for nine months. Are the Christians going to help her pay her bills when she loses her job due to her pregnancy? You're forcing her to remain pregnant through the heavy hand of government.

These are the same people whining about the government mandating them to wear a mask in crowded, public venus, in the middle of a deadly, nationwide pandemic, because supposedly the government doesn't have a right to force them to put something on their faces (bodies). These same Christian "liberty rebels", "super-patriots", who hate everything about the government, turn right around and use the authority of the government to force women to remain pregnant, by criminalizing abortion. Your "pro-life" position is actually pro-death. You create more pain and suffering, including death by forcing women to remain pregnant and give birth to human beings that will now become wards of the states. Many children aren't adopted.

Do you want to see where many foster children end up? Here:

​

How is that "pro-life"? Women should have the bodily autonomy to decide, at least early in their pregnancy, if they're going to remain pregnant or not. It should be up to the woman to decide that, not the government or Christian hypocrites who pretend to care about fetuses in other people's wombs.

These holy-rollers defund government programs that help the poor raise their children and provide healthcare, food, housing, job training and employment opportunities, daycare..etc. Many of these women who want to end their pregnancies early, are poor and don't have the means to raise a child (or another child), hence if she is forced to carry what is in her womb to term, for nine long months, giving birth to a baby, that human being, will go into foster care. A hard life of neglect.

There is a high prevalence of violence in foster care homes, including sexual abuse. That's what you are subjecting these children to, who will grow up in that environment and when released at the age of 18, are much more likely to end up homeless or in prison. Where is the "pro-life" in this unnecessary reality that you've created out of spite for women who have premarital sex or that you deem harlots? You want to punish the "harlots", by forcing them to remain pregnant and give birth to children that aren't going to be properly cared for. You are not pro-life, you're pro-death.

The fact that what is in the womb, is alive, doesn't mean it's a human being. Christians reduce human beings to zygotes, embryos, and underdeveloped fetuses. They equate this:

To this:

A potential human being isn't an actual human being. Any more than a potential adult is an actual adult. If a five year old child dies in a car accident, that child isn't identified as an adult. A child died in the accident, with his parents. His parents were adults, and their child wasn't. A zygote, embryo or under-developed fetus, isn't a human being. Even Jewish law, based on the Hebrew Tenach and rulings of the Sanhedrin (the judges and now the rabbis), doesn't equate an embryo or an under-developed fetus, as a human being and citizen of the nation of Israel (a member of the community).

According to the Torah, a pregnant woman can be executed. Even burned alive. The fetus is considered part of the woman's body. It's not a separate human being. At least not early in the pregnancy, before the fetus takes the full form of a baby. The rabbis debated this. Some rabbis believed that life in the womb isn't a human being until it's out of its mother and takes its first breath.

These "pro-life" Christians think they're honoring human life by forcing women to remain pregnant, even in early gestation, and that's WRONG.

Women should have bodily autonomy when it comes to reproduction and pregnancy. They decide, whether to remain pregnant or not. If the embryo or under-developed fetus has an eternal, divinely given soul or spirit, then that soul gets a free ticket to heaven or your deity can place that human soul in another womb, of a woman that wants a baby.

 

[Blues Man]

So is pregnancy and giving birth. Having an abortion...not so much.

Women have been terminating pregnancies well before the medical abortion procedure was invented

 

[Winco]

Is it your position that first we stop killing animals, then we stop killing the unborn? Could be the better argument is first we stop killing the unborn, then we consider the eating meat issue.

I eat meat, I support eating meat, and I support a woman's RIGHT to choose up to 15 weeks.

 

[Meriweather]

Women have been terminating pregnancies well before the medical abortion procedure was invented

I know. Does that make it right? People have been lying, cheating, stealing, and murdering since the dawn of time. Does people doing wrong make the wrong the right thing to choose?

 

[Meriweather]

I eat meat, I support eating meat, and I support a woman's RIGHT to choose up to 15 weeks.

What you don't support is a fetus continuing through the pregnancy until birth.

 

[Meriweather]

Who

Before reading anything you right, I check to see if it is a screed and a lot of proof-texts. If there are...