trump would abandon NATO if re-elected

[kyzr]

It is certainly true that European NATO countries now are increasingly aware that they cannot rely on the U.S. — especially if Trump is re-elected (a real possibility) — and that they must take up the slack to ensure Putin does not succeed.

Fortunately, Germany and virtually all others are now increasing their own military budgets and contributions to Ukraine. If one counts their aid to Ukrainian refugees as well, they are roughly matching U.S. aid. I suspect this year we will see European NATO countries circumventing Hungarian or other opposition and getting their act together. Just as now it is Russia freezing and not Europe, the immense economic strength of Europe compared to Russia should make it possible to stop Putin and defeat him.a recent Atlantic Council article may be a bit optimistic, but shows how serious European states consider the possibility that they may have to “go it alone.”

About fucking time the EU helps pull the wagon instead of riding in it.
The US still has China and the ME to deal with.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I remember Trump was really pissed that Germany was buying Putin's gas funding his military, and we're there paying $25b or so a year to protect Germany from Russia. It made no sense.

Trump was simply defending U.S. oil and gas interests. His administration was fully aware that Europe would have to buy expensive LNG imports (which we had in abundance) to replace Russian gas imports. Europe has been paying a far higher overall economic price (jobs, inflation, productivity) than the U.S. all along for this war. In fact in many ways the U.S. economy has been helped against all its Western competitors as a result of Putin’s disastrous and bloody invasion.

I don’t think you can blame the Europeans or Germans for importing and relying on cheap Russian energy imports in the past. It really made very good economic sense … until Putin threw it all away by starting his bloody war. It necessarily took time as well as money to reset their entire energy economy, and Europe will have to sacrifice still more if they want to preserve their freedoms. In the end, if the U.S. cops out and Europe holds the line by itself, we may end up with a stronger and more politically integrated Europe, less dependent on a feckless, divided, and even backward-looking United States.

 

[skye]

If Trump abandons NATO then good on him!

We like!

 

[Lesh]

If Trump abandons NATO then good on him!

We like!

Can you hear Putin clapping with you?

He is ya know

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

If Trump abandons NATO then good on him!

We like!

If we abandon NATO and Ukraine, Europe will abandon the U.S. Our historic leadership in the world will suffer tremendously, and China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran will all become more aggressive. Even Japan and South Korea will think long and hard before ever relying on the U.S.A. The world’s nuclear powers will end up numbering a score or more as everyone builds atomic bombs. Our dollar and trade will suffer in international commerce, and our country will lose political influence and economic markets and resources in Latin America, Africa and the rest of Asia at a much faster rate than it has up to this point.

Sure you still want to clap your silly hands?

 

[skye]

Let Trump abandon NATO.

It's perfectly fine!

Go Trump!

 

[Lastamender]

If we abandon NATO and Ukraine, Europe will abandon the U.S. Our historic leadership in the world will suffer tremendously, and China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran will all become more aggressive. Even Japan and South Korea will think long and hard before ever relying on the U.S.A. The world’s nuclear powers will end up numbering a score or more as everyone builds atomic bombs. Our dollar and trade will suffer in international commerce, and our country will lose political influence and economic markets and resources in Latin America, Africa and the rest of Asia at a much faster rate than it has up to this point.

Sure you still want to clap your silly hands?

Obama let everyone of those countries get stronger and more aggressive.

 

[Zebra]

Trump Will Abandon NATO

If reelected, he would end our commitment to the European alliance, reshaping the international order and hobbling American influence in the world.

www.theatlantic.com

trump doesn't care about NATO. He said so himself, many times. He knows if he abandons NATO, Putin would have a easy road to take back the old Soviet countries, and more. trump is the most dangerous man in the world right now. He has assembled a cult that is will to do anything he asks, including acts of violence and intimidation. He is the danger from within that our founding fathers warned us about.

that is also my opinion ….

but many do not want to see this

 

[kyzr]

Trump was simply defending U.S. oil and gas interests. His administration was fully aware that Europe would have to buy expensive LNG imports (which we had in abundance) to replace Russian gas imports. Europe has been paying a far higher overall economic price (jobs, inflation, productivity) than the U.S. all along for this war. In fact in many ways the U.S. economy has been helped against all its Western competitors as a result of Putin’s disastrous and bloody invasion.

I don’t think you can blame the Europeans or Germans for importing and relying on cheap Russian energy imports in the past. It really made very good economic sense … until Putin threw it all away by starting his bloody war. It necessarily took time as well as money to reset their entire energy economy, and Europe will have to sacrifice still more if they want to preserve their freedoms. In the end, if the U.S. cops out and Europe holds the line by itself, we may end up with a stronger and more politically integrated Europe, less dependent on a feckless, divided, and even backward-looking United States.

Jolly good show. An EU that can defend itself, along with its NATO allies. About fucking time.
The US debt of $34T and climbing means that we will need to cut spending.

p.s. The EU paid a "price" since ~2014? The US paid that price since 1945, you're welcome.

 

[kyzr]

that is also my opinion ….

but many do not want to see this

The US will need to cut costs going forward due to the $34T DEBT.
If Trump tells NATO that defending the EU is their responsibility, after the US spent about $24b a year there since 1945 keeping Russia at bay, I'm fine with that.
That said, the US won't leave NATO. We just need to have a smaller footprint in the EU.

 

[JimH52]

Threatening to leave NATO does not strengthen it

Disavowing article Five does not strengthen it

And now he is suggesting that we would not defend Tiawan? trump on cares about himself. He would love to see a trump hotel in Beijing or Moscow. He does not care about the US or our security. The day in 2016 when trump was elected, will go down as the day US democracy began dying.

MSN

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The law was changed this term to block Trump from doing that.

 

[kyzr]

The law was changed this term to block Trump from doing that.

link please. what law?

 

[kyzr]

And now he is suggesting that we would not defend Tiawan? trump on cares about himself. He would love to see a trump hotel in Beijing or Moscow. He does not care about the US or our security. The day in 2016 when trump was elected, will go down as the day US democracy began dying.

Biden just said he won't defend Taiwan. So what's your point?

https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-us-does-not-support-taiwan-independence-2024-01-13/

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Trump Will Abandon NATO

If reelected, he would end our commitment to the European alliance, reshaping the international order and hobbling American influence in the world.

www.theatlantic.com

trump doesn't care about NATO. He said so himself, many times. He knows if he abandons NATO, Putin would have a easy road to take back the old Soviet countries, and more. trump is the most dangerous man in the world right now. He has assembled a cult that is will to do anything he asks, including acts of violence and intimidation. He is the danger from within that our founding fathers warned us about.

“trump would abandon NATO if re-elected”

And coddle despots and dictators.

 

[JimH52]

“trump would abandon NATO if re-elected”

And coddle despots and dictators.

He is still looking to build a hotel in Beijing or Moscow. He will praise them and even provide them with classified secrets to get it done. Who know what other classified documents he has shown our adversaries?

 

[ESay]

We "hid" on our side of the pond after the 1900 time frame and had to deal with a world war in (1914-) 1917-1918

Yeah, only the thing is you chose the wrong side in that war and all European history was fucked after that.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Biden just said he won't defend Taiwan. So what's your point?

https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-us-does-not-support-taiwan-independence-2024-01-13/

According to U.S. News, President Joe Biden stated on Saturday that the United States does not support the independence of Taiwan 1. This statement was made after Taiwanese voters gave the ruling party a third presidential term, thereby rebuffing China 1. In another report by MSN, Biden’s words were more direct: “We do not support independence” for Taiwan 2.

It is important to note that Biden’s statement does not mean that the United States will not defend Taiwan if it is attacked. In fact, in May 2022, Biden stated that the U.S. would be willing to use force to defend Taiwan if attacked 3. However, in his recent statement, Biden reiterated the U.S.'s long-held position of not supporting a formal declaration of independence by Taiwan 4.

Poniboy Kyzr can't fib here and get away with it.

 

[Lesh]

According to U.S. News, President Joe Biden stated on Saturday that the United States does not support the independence of Taiwan 1. This statement was made after Taiwanese voters gave the ruling party a third presidential term, thereby rebuffing China 1. In another report by MSN, Biden’s words were more direct: “We do not support independence” for Taiwan 2.

It is important to note that Biden’s statement does not mean that the United States will not defend Taiwan if it is attacked. In fact, in May 2022, Biden stated that the U.S. would be willing to use force to defend Taiwan if attacked 3. However, in his recent statement, Biden reiterated the U.S.'s long-held position of not supporting a formal declaration of independence by Taiwan 4.

Poniboy Kyzr can't fib here and get away with it.

What Biden has said is a continuation of US policy that. Has been in place for decades.

Anything more or less is an invitation for China to invade

 

[fncceo]

“trump would abandon NATO if re-elected”

And coddle despots and dictators.

Or... make Europe responsible for taking care of their own homegrown despots and dictators.

How would we react to having The Saudis come over and start cutting the hands off or our thieves?