trump would abandon NATO if re-elected

[Tom Paine 1949]

It is almost certain that Trump, if elected, would abandon Ukraine or make a deal to save his buddy Putin at the grave expense of Ukraine and Europe. It is certainly possible — but not certain — that he would actually pull out of NATO altogether.

If the U.S. abandons already sovereign independent Ukraine to the stumbling imperial Russian invasion, China will certainly be emboldened in Asia.

Taiwan is in a different situation than Ukraine and its “defense” requires a more sophisticated policy if we are to succeed in protecting the status quo of its pro-Western de facto independence. Trump could sell it out, or follow the cowboy Republicans in Congress and unintentionally force China’s hand. I suspect he would abandon Taiwan even faster than Ukraine if China finally acts to blockade or attack Taiwan, which XiJinping would much prefer not to have to do.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Wholeheartedly agree.

It is NOT smart to abandon NATO.

The time of simple-minded 19th Century Isolationism is long-since over.

The leftover residue of that mindset cost us extremely heavily beginning in 1917 and again in 1941.

Mind you... we need to do a MUCH better job in our foreign relations... but NATO is The Smart Move in the 21st Century.

No, meddling in things that were none of our business cost us heavily.

If we abandon NATO and Ukraine, Europe will abandon the U.S. Our historic leadership in the world will suffer tremendously, and China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran will all become more aggressive. Even Japan and South Korea will think long and hard before ever relying on the U.S.A. The world’s nuclear powers will end up numbering a score or more as everyone builds atomic bombs. Our dollar and trade will suffer in international commerce, and our country will lose political influence and economic markets and resources in Latin America, Africa and the rest of Asia at a much faster rate than it has up to this point.

Sure you still want to clap your silly hands?

That's gibberish.

What Biden has said is a continuation of US policy that. Has been in place for decades.

Anything more or less is an invitation for China to invade

It's quite obvious: Taiwan needs nuclear weapons.

 

[Mac-7]

Trump Will Abandon NATO

If reelected, he would end our commitment to the European alliance, reshaping the international order and hobbling American influence in the world.

www.theatlantic.com

trump doesn't care about NATO. He said so himself, many times. He knows if he abandons NATO, Putin would have a easy road to take back the old Soviet countries, and more. trump is the most dangerous man in the world right now. He has assembled a cult that is will to do anything he asks, including acts of violence and intimidation. He is the danger from within that our founding fathers warned us about.

From your link:

“But during Trump’s time in office, the withdrawal never happened.”

I agree that withdrawing from NATO would be a mistake

Which is why trump never did it

 

[ESay]

It is almost certain that Trump, if elected, would abandon Ukraine or make a deal to save his buddy Putin at the grave expense of Ukraine and Europe. It is certainly possible — but not certain — that he would actually pull out of NATO altogether.

If the U.S. abandons already sovereign independent Ukraine to the stumbling imperial Russian invasion, China will certainly be emboldened in Asia.

Taiwan is in a different situation than Ukraine and its “defense” requires a more sophisticated policy if we are to succeed in protecting the status quo of its pro-Western de facto independence. Trump could sell it out, or follow the cowboy Republicans in Congress and unintentionally force China’s hand. I suspect he would abandon Taiwan even faster than Ukraine if China finally acts to blockade or attack Taiwan, which XiJinping would much prefer not to have to do.

It is the Biden administration who made this war 'unwinnable' for Ukraine. Ukraine needs someone who will stop this endless mess.

 

[Kondor3]

It is the Biden administration who made this war 'unwinnable' for Ukraine. Ukraine needs someone who will stop this endless mess.

Yeah... Putin needs to stop his unjustified, savage, barbaric, unholy invasion of Ukraine...

 

[ESay]

Yeah... Putin needs to stop his unjustified, savage, barbaric, unholy invasion of Ukraine...

Yes, he needs, but he won't.

 

[ESay]

It is really sad to admit, but it seems more and more evident that America really needs to 'go home'. She has plenty of her own problems that need to be addressed. And these problems have a footprint on her foreign policy and international stance.

What happens next? Who knows. Even gradual 'withdrawal' will cause huge void globally that should be filled by someone. I think it is quite likely that such regional and global shifts follow:

The European 'unity' will cease to exist (let's not forget that the EU and NATO were American projects on practice to keep European allies under common economic and military umbrella).

The Russia-Ukraine war will end on mostly Moscow's terms.

The Taiwan issue will be eventually resolved by the 'Hong Kong scenario'. And China will become the sole guarantor for 'peaceful' coexistence between the North and South of Korea.

Vast changes in the Middle East. With Iran finally establishing their sphere of influence there; Turkey following a path of further authoritarianism and islamization; and Israel having to find common ways with 'anti-Iran' Arab allies if they want to preserve their state.

 

[Kondor3]

It is really sad to admit, but it seems more and more evident that America really needs to 'go home'. She has plenty of her own problems that need to be addressed. And these problems have a footprint on her foreign policy and international stance.

What happens next? Who knows. Even gradual 'withdrawal' will cause huge void globally that should be filled by someone. I think it is quite likely that such regional and global shifts follow:

The European 'unity' will cease to exist (let's not forget that the EU and NATO were American projects on practice to keep European allies under common economic and military umbrella).

The Russia-Ukraine war will end on mostly Moscow's terms.

The Taiwan issue will be eventually resolved by the 'Hong Kong scenario'. And China will become the sole guarantor for 'peaceful' coexistence between the North and South of Korea.

Vast changes in the Middle East. With Iran finally establishing their sphere of influence there; Turkey following a path of further authoritarianism and islamization; and Israel having to find common ways with 'anti-Iran' Arab allies if they want to preserve their state.

The US lacks an intelligent and consistently-applied collection of strategic and foreign policy goals.

Including a much more intelligent and consistent threshold for the application and sustaining of military force.

In the absence of that there isn't much long-term benefit for exposing our own people to danger.

And yet a retreat into 19th Century American Isolationism isn't the answer either... we learned our lesson in 1917 and 1941.

 

[ESay]

The US lacks an intelligent and consistently-applied collection of strategic and foreign policy goals.

Including a much more intelligent and consistent threshold for the application and sustaining of military force.

In the absence of that there isn't much long-term benefit for exposing our own people to danger.

And yet a retreat into 19th Century American Isolationism isn't the answer either... we learned our lesson in 1917 and 1941.

Well, I don't think that America made a right choice in 1917. Defeat of the Central Powers caused much more damage to Europe.

 

[kyzr]

According to U.S. News, President Joe Biden stated on Saturday that the United States does not support the independence of Taiwan 1. This statement was made after Taiwanese voters gave the ruling party a third presidential term, thereby rebuffing China 1. In another report by MSN, Biden’s words were more direct: “We do not support independence” for Taiwan 2.

It is important to note that Biden’s statement does not mean that the United States will not defend Taiwan if it is attacked. In fact, in May 2022, Biden stated that the U.S. would be willing to use force to defend Taiwan if attacked3. However, in his recent statement, Biden reiterated the U.S.'s long-held position of not supporting a formal declaration of independence by Taiwan 4.

Poniboy Kyzr can't fib here and get away with it.

So confused Joe Biden was for defending Taiwan and now says he won't defend it.

So we're now at NOT DEFENDING Taiwan, dumbass.

 

[kyzr]

It is almost certain that Trump, if elected, would abandon Ukraine or make a deal to save his buddy Putin at the grave expense of Ukraine and Europe. It is certainly possible — but not certain — that he would actually pull out of NATO altogether.

If the U.S. abandons already sovereign independent Ukraine to the stumbling imperial Russian invasion, China will certainly be emboldened in Asia.

Taiwan is in a different situation than Ukraine and its “defense” requires a more sophisticated policy if we are to succeed in protecting the status quo of its pro-Western de facto independence. Trump could sell it out, or follow the cowboy Republicans in Congress and unintentionally force China’s hand. I suspect he would abandon Taiwan even faster than Ukraine if China finally acts to blockade or attack Taiwan, which XiJinping would much prefer not to have to do.

Suppose Trump's plan is to admit Ukraine into NATO? Would the EU troops join the US in defending it?

As for Taiwan, we need to get all our sophisticated chip manufacturing plants relocated back to the US, then China can have it.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Suppose Trump's plan is to admit Ukraine into NATO? Would the EU troops join the US in defending it?

Do you think this is Trump’s plan? Are you this retarded?

As for Taiwan, we need to get all our sophisticated chip manufacturing plants relocated back to the US, then China can have it.

First of all they are not “our” chip manufacturing plants, fool.

Secondly, the Biden initiated Chips Act (which most Repubs opposed) is designed precisely to encourage Taiwan’s TSMC — which makes roughly 90 percent of the world's advanced chips, powering everything including iPhones, artificial intelligence, electric vehicles and fighter jets — to move plants here and abroad. Unfortunately, this is not like moving a fortune cookie factory, or a car factory, and Taiwan is actually dragging its feet, as it is aware of the difficulties and knows TSMC is crucial to its own wealth and even existence.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

So confused Joe Biden was for defending Taiwan and now says he won't defend it.

So we're now at NOT DEFENDING Taiwan, dumbass.

Your complaint was already rebutted. He said he would not recognize Taiwan's independence. He will defend it.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Trump can't withdraw from NATO (the law was passed this term).

 

[Crick]

Trump Will Abandon NATO

If reelected, he would end our commitment to the European alliance, reshaping the international order and hobbling American influence in the world.

www.theatlantic.com

trump doesn't care about NATO. He said so himself, many times. He knows if he abandons NATO, Putin would have a easy road to take back the old Soviet countries, and more. trump is the most dangerous man in the world right now. He has assembled a cult that is will to do anything he asks, including acts of violence and intimidation. He is the danger from within that our founding fathers warned us about.

Trump not only doesn't care about NATO, he doesn't care about the United States. I suspect that if reelected, Trump will claim to be ruler for life and would have no problem gifting the United States to Russia in his will if they allowed him to build a high rise in Moscow with his name on it.

 

[Crick]

No he wouldn't. He'd just make them pay their fair share. Much of NATO is all about defending Europe, not the US, and yet they expect us to foot most of the bill.

Not true.

Fighting Russia in Europe IS defending the US and, conveniently, on someone else's soil.

 

[Crick]

Europe and Canada spend 5.5 TIMES the total Russian defense budget on NATO. Total NATO expenditures are 17.8 TIMES the Russian defense budget.

NATO Force Planning and the Impact of the Ukraine War

In this analysis, the Emeritus Chair in Strategy has prepared a short commentary examining NATO force planning priorities and the need for a new net assessment.

www.csis.org

 

[DGS49]

I suspect that President Trump would end the war in Ukraine by first seeking a cease fire, then compelling Ukraine to participate in negotiations that would necessarily involve giving up some territory.

We need to abandon the philosophy that, "The enemy of our enemy is [by definition] our friend," and stop supporting one of the most corrupt regimes on the planet, one that tramples civil rights like elephants trample the tall grass.

As for NATO, who seriously gives a shit? NATO was formed to protect Western Europe from the Soviet Union...which doesn't exist anymore.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

DSG49's plan has no chance of being considered.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Trump will not be allowed to abandon Ukraine.