Trump wants to pull U.S. out of NATO

[deanrd]

Somebody want to tell me why American boys should die for other countries?

It’s not all one way. Canadians, Brits and French troops died for America in Afghanistan. The US invaded Afghanistan after 9/11. That was America’s war and no others. Yet others died because Americans died. NATO allies came to the aid of the US in its time of need when they did not have to. That’s what allies do.

But why? Did we improve Afghanistan? We need tight tight border security and no more 9-11. End visa, end visa overstays! Build that damn wall. I am sick of all this shit! I have become Pelosi. I am unwilling to budge!we should change our laws and make it impossible to come here! They have their own damn countries. Stay there, fight for your lives, defend what’s yours!

Do you not think that NATO helps us better defend ourselves?

When's the last time NATO did shit?

It strengthens us though alliances and military positioning. What are you expecting it to do?

They think if it doesn't sh!t rainbows, it doesn't work.
The economy
military alliances
the country
When Republicans touch it, it dies. Doesn't matter what it is.

 

[WillowTree]

Somebody want to tell me why American boys should die for other countries?

It's because of NATO we don't have to die dum dum. Try to figure out why?

Really?

 

[Slade3200]

We pick up the slack, yet those countries that are in closer proximity to the conflicts or peace keeping activities, are not living up to the agreed upon terms. We then make up the slack through our resources and funding. If they increase their spending so they have the resources to contribute, as agreed upon, we then have less we must contribute, which is historically much greater than even Europe combined. They would be effected more quickly, due to that proximity, yet contribute less for their own security.

Smarter than making other countries finally pay their promised shares? They have been getting away with it for years.

From the latimes-

...It’s true that the U.S. pays more to NATO in annual dues. And many NATO members, including Germany, Britain and France, fail to meet alliance spending targets. But even with a nearly $700-billion defense budget, the U.S. share of total military spending by NATO members is around 70%, not 90%, according to NATO statistics...


...Each member of the 29-nation alliance pays a portion of NATO’s annual base budget, which is about $1.8 billion for 2018.

Dues are apportioned under a cost-sharing formula based on gross national income. This funds alliance operations, including joint training, an airborne early-warning system, and headquarters costs in Brussels and in active military theaters such as Afghanistan. Another $822 million goes to the NATO Security Investment Program for construction projects and other long-term spending.

As the largest member, the U.S. pays the most dues — 22% of the total in 2018, or around $396 million. The smallest alliance member, Montenegro, pays .0270%, or around $486,000.

In addition to dues, each NATO country sets an annual budget for funding its armed forces. In response to U.S. pressure, alliance members pledged in 2014 to raise their defense spending to 2% of their gross domestic products by 2024.

How many have achieved the 2% goal so far?

Only four countries met the target in 2017, according to NATO — the U.S. at 3.57%, Britain at 2.1% percent, Greece at 2.38% and Estonia at 2.1%. This year, Latvia is likely to achieve the 2% target, according to NATO estimates.

Poland, Romania and Lithuania are likely to meet the goal soon. But many of NATO’s biggest countries still fall short. Germany, with the second-biggest economy in the alliance, spends 1.24% of its GDP on its armed forces. France spends 1.81% and Turkey spends 1.68%.

Excluding the U.S., total military spending by NATO members has increased modestly in recent years, from $272 billion in 2014 to an estimated $312 billion this year — or less than half the U.S. defense budget. But only 16 allies are “on track” to meet the 2% target by 2024, according to Kay Bailey Hutchison, the U.S. ambassador to NATO and a Trump appointee.

What exactly do you think the “NATO bill” is? Who are we paying it to? I’d double check that number if I were you

Yes, I believe I just pointed to those numbers but thank you for elaborating. I’m still not seeing where this perceived “rip off” is coming from.

It reminds me of how Trump talks about China and the trade deficit. He acts like it’s this big rip off and China is taking all our money, but he neglects the fact that Americans are buying goods from China and using those goods to run businesses here in the US. While I do agree that the trade deficit is an issue, I don’t like the dishonest rhetoric and misrepresentations around it. Same thing is happening here with NATO. We need to be smarter than that

Who do you think these countries are paying and how do you think it’s impacting us or the alliance?

How exactly are we picking up the slack? What extra resources are we funding and who are we paying for these resources? Come on be specific.

 

[WillowTree]

Others need to pay up.

By pay up you mean spend more on their own military? Ok, I’m fine with that but how exactly do you think that is negatively impacting us?

We pay 51% of the NATO bill. Figure it out.

What exactly do you think the “NATO bill” is? Who are we paying it to? I’d double check that number if I were you

I did check it. No furthur argument is necessary!

Last I checked we pay 72% of the total NATO contributions as far as defense spending (686 billion). And 22% of the shared operational costs for NATO (550 million)... 2017 numbers

But let’s forget about those numbers for a minute, answer my question. What is this NATO bill you think we are paying 51% of and who are we paying it to?

I gave you a link to my information. Now answer my question. If nato is so goddamn relevant why doesn’t Europe pay it’s share?

 

[Slade3200]

It’s not all one way. Canadians, Brits and French troops died for America in Afghanistan. The US invaded Afghanistan after 9/11. That was America’s war and no others. Yet others died because Americans died. NATO allies came to the aid of the US in its time of need when they did not have to. That’s what allies do.

But why? Did we improve Afghanistan? We need tight tight border security and no more 9-11. End visa, end visa overstays! Build that damn wall. I am sick of all this shit! I have become Pelosi. I am unwilling to budge!we should change our laws and make it impossible to come here! They have their own damn countries. Stay there, fight for your lives, defend what’s yours!

Do you not think that NATO helps us better defend ourselves?

When's the last time NATO did shit?

It strengthens us though alliances and military positioning. What are you expecting it to do?

They think if it doesn't sh!t rainbows, it doesn't work.
The economy
military alliances
the country
When Republicans touch it, it dies. Doesn't matter what it is.

Well by those standards I actually agree. If it doesn’t shit rainbows then I’m not interested

 

[Slade3200]

By pay up you mean spend more on their own military? Ok, I’m fine with that but how exactly do you think that is negatively impacting us?

We pay 51% of the NATO bill. Figure it out.

What exactly do you think the “NATO bill” is? Who are we paying it to? I’d double check that number if I were you

I did check it. No furthur argument is necessary!

Last I checked we pay 72% of the total NATO contributions as far as defense spending (686 billion). And 22% of the shared operational costs for NATO (550 million)... 2017 numbers

But let’s forget about those numbers for a minute, answer my question. What is this NATO bill you think we are paying 51% of and who are we paying it to?

I gave you a link to my information. Now answer my question. If nato is so goddamn relevant why doesn’t Europe pay it’s share?

I don’t know what you mean about paying their share? Why don’t they spend more on their own military? Well they should if they agreed to. I have no problem pushing them to do so. My question is how do you think that impacts us so negatively? No links. Use your own words

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Somebody want to tell me why American boys should die for other countries?

It’s not all one way. Canadians, Brits and French troops died for America in Afghanistan. The US invaded Afghanistan after 9/11. That was America’s war and no others. Yet others died because Americans died. NATO allies came to the aid of the US in its time of need when they did not have to. That’s what allies do.

But why? Did we improve Afghanistan? We need tight tight border security and no more 9-11. End visa, end visa overstays! Build that damn wall. I am sick of all this shit! I have become Pelosi. I am unwilling to budge!we should change our laws and make it impossible to come here! They have their own damn countries. Stay there, fight for your lives, defend what’s yours!

Do you not think that NATO helps us better defend ourselves?

When's the last time NATO did shit?

It strengthens us though alliances and military positioning. What are you expecting it to do?

You didnt answer the question.

 

[WillowTree]

We pay 51% of the NATO bill. Figure it out.

What exactly do you think the “NATO bill” is? Who are we paying it to? I’d double check that number if I were you

I did check it. No furthur argument is necessary!

Last I checked we pay 72% of the total NATO contributions as far as defense spending (686 billion). And 22% of the shared operational costs for NATO (550 million)... 2017 numbers

But let’s forget about those numbers for a minute, answer my question. What is this NATO bill you think we are paying 51% of and who are we paying it to?

I gave you a link to my information. Now answer my question. If nato is so goddamn relevant why doesn’t Europe pay it’s share?

I don’t know what you mean about paying their share? Why don’t they spend more on their own military? Well they should if they agreed to. I have no problem pushing them to do so. My question is how do you think that impacts us so negatively? No links. Use your own words

They are not even paying what they agreed to.

 

[Slade3200]

It’s not all one way. Canadians, Brits and French troops died for America in Afghanistan. The US invaded Afghanistan after 9/11. That was America’s war and no others. Yet others died because Americans died. NATO allies came to the aid of the US in its time of need when they did not have to. That’s what allies do.

But why? Did we improve Afghanistan? We need tight tight border security and no more 9-11. End visa, end visa overstays! Build that damn wall. I am sick of all this shit! I have become Pelosi. I am unwilling to budge!we should change our laws and make it impossible to come here! They have their own damn countries. Stay there, fight for your lives, defend what’s yours!

Do you not think that NATO helps us better defend ourselves?

When's the last time NATO did shit?

It strengthens us though alliances and military positioning. What are you expecting it to do?

You didnt answer the question.

I answered it directly. The existence of NATO adds to our security. Allows us to gather intelligence and position our military assets all over the world. That is it “doing shit”

Now you answer my question

 

[Slade3200]

What exactly do you think the “NATO bill” is? Who are we paying it to? I’d double check that number if I were you

I did check it. No furthur argument is necessary!

Last I checked we pay 72% of the total NATO contributions as far as defense spending (686 billion). And 22% of the shared operational costs for NATO (550 million)... 2017 numbers

But let’s forget about those numbers for a minute, answer my question. What is this NATO bill you think we are paying 51% of and who are we paying it to?

I gave you a link to my information. Now answer my question. If nato is so goddamn relevant why doesn’t Europe pay it’s share?

I don’t know what you mean about paying their share? Why don’t they spend more on their own military? Well they should if they agreed to. I have no problem pushing them to do so. My question is how do you think that impacts us so negatively? No links. Use your own words

They are not even paying what they agreed to.

Who aren’t they paying? Who are we paying? Can you answer these questions?

 

[WillowTree]

I did check it. No furthur argument is necessary!

Last I checked we pay 72% of the total NATO contributions as far as defense spending (686 billion). And 22% of the shared operational costs for NATO (550 million)... 2017 numbers

But let’s forget about those numbers for a minute, answer my question. What is this NATO bill you think we are paying 51% of and who are we paying it to?

I gave you a link to my information. Now answer my question. If nato is so goddamn relevant why doesn’t Europe pay it’s share?

I don’t know what you mean about paying their share? Why don’t they spend more on their own military? Well they should if they agreed to. I have no problem pushing them to do so. My question is how do you think that impacts us so negatively? No links. Use your own words

They are not even paying what they agreed to.

Who aren’t they paying? Who are we paying? Can you answer these questions?

Why don,’t ewe tell us where our 51% goes!

 

[beautress]

Somebody want to tell me why American boys should die for other countries?

It's because of NATO we don't have to die dum dum. Try to figure out why?

You're forgetting 9/11/2001. Do the words "Never forget" ring any bells, sir?

 

[Slade3200]

Last I checked we pay 72% of the total NATO contributions as far as defense spending (686 billion). And 22% of the shared operational costs for NATO (550 million)... 2017 numbers

But let’s forget about those numbers for a minute, answer my question. What is this NATO bill you think we are paying 51% of and who are we paying it to?

I gave you a link to my information. Now answer my question. If nato is so goddamn relevant why doesn’t Europe pay it’s share?

I don’t know what you mean about paying their share? Why don’t they spend more on their own military? Well they should if they agreed to. I have no problem pushing them to do so. My question is how do you think that impacts us so negatively? No links. Use your own words

They are not even paying what they agreed to.

Who aren’t they paying? Who are we paying? Can you answer these questions?

Why don,’t ewe tell us where our 51% goes!

First off I don’t know where you are getting this 51% number. From what I’ve seen... If you add up the defense budgets of all NATO members we pay 72% of the total. If you are looking at the shared operational costs of NATO then we pay 22%. So tell me exactly are you complaining about and I’ll address it.

 

[WillowTree]

I gave you a link to my information. Now answer my question. If nato is so goddamn relevant why doesn’t Europe pay it’s share?

I don’t know what you mean about paying their share? Why don’t they spend more on their own military? Well they should if they agreed to. I have no problem pushing them to do so. My question is how do you think that impacts us so negatively? No links. Use your own words

They are not even paying what they agreed to.

Who aren’t they paying? Who are we paying? Can you answer these questions?

Why don,’t ewe tell us where our 51% goes!

First off I don’t know where you are getting this 51% number. From what I’ve seen... If you add up the defense budgets of all NATO members we pay 72% of the total. If you are looking at the shared operational costs of NATO then we pay 22%. So tell me exactly are you complaining about and I’ll address it.

How about ewe fuddgeddabout it?

 

[beautress]

I did check it. No furthur argument is necessary!

Last I checked we pay 72% of the total NATO contributions as far as defense spending (686 billion). And 22% of the shared operational costs for NATO (550 million)... 2017 numbers

But let’s forget about those numbers for a minute, answer my question. What is this NATO bill you think we are paying 51% of and who are we paying it to?

I gave you a link to my information. Now answer my question. If nato is so goddamn relevant why doesn’t Europe pay it’s share?

I don’t know what you mean about paying their share? Why don’t they spend more on their own military? Well they should if they agreed to. I have no problem pushing them to do so. My question is how do you think that impacts us so negatively? No links. Use your own words

They are not even paying what they agreed to.

Who aren’t they paying? Who are we paying? Can you answer these questions?

DoD Releases Fiscal Year 2018 Budget Proposal: DoD Releases Fiscal Year 2018 Budget Proposal > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > News Release View
Staggring. Good night, everyone.

 

[Slade3200]

I don’t know what you mean about paying their share? Why don’t they spend more on their own military? Well they should if they agreed to. I have no problem pushing them to do so. My question is how do you think that impacts us so negatively? No links. Use your own words

They are not even paying what they agreed to.

Who aren’t they paying? Who are we paying? Can you answer these questions?

Why don,’t ewe tell us where our 51% goes!

First off I don’t know where you are getting this 51% number. From what I’ve seen... If you add up the defense budgets of all NATO members we pay 72% of the total. If you are looking at the shared operational costs of NATO then we pay 22%. So tell me exactly are you complaining about and I’ll address it.

How about ewe fuddgeddabout it?

Sounds like you are giving up on the discussion. Why can’t you just have a straight forward conversation and answer simple questions? What’s wrong with you?

 

[WillowTree]

They are not even paying what they agreed to.

Who aren’t they paying? Who are we paying? Can you answer these questions?

Why don,’t ewe tell us where our 51% goes!

First off I don’t know where you are getting this 51% number. From what I’ve seen... If you add up the defense budgets of all NATO members we pay 72% of the total. If you are looking at the shared operational costs of NATO then we pay 22%. So tell me exactly are you complaining about and I’ll address it.

How about ewe fuddgeddabout it?

Sounds like you are giving up on the discussion. Why can’t you just have a straight forward conversation and answer simple questions? What’s wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me! So do the US bear the financial burden of NATO or not? And why should we?

 

[Correll]

Trump wants to pull U.S. out of NATO: NYT

President Donald Trump has discussed pulling the United States out of NATO — a move that, if executed, would diminish America's world stature and embolden Russia to make advances against Europe, according to a new New York Times report.

"Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization," the paper reported on Monday.

----------------

So what do you think? Trump can't pull us out of NATO without help from the Senate.

Will the GOP Senate help Trump isolate us, finish off our agriculture and beef industries and isolate us from business around the world?

It is utter madness that we are treaty bound to fight a war over Estonia.

 

[Slade3200]

Who aren’t they paying? Who are we paying? Can you answer these questions?

Why don,’t ewe tell us where our 51% goes!

First off I don’t know where you are getting this 51% number. From what I’ve seen... If you add up the defense budgets of all NATO members we pay 72% of the total. If you are looking at the shared operational costs of NATO then we pay 22%. So tell me exactly are you complaining about and I’ll address it.

How about ewe fuddgeddabout it?

Sounds like you are giving up on the discussion. Why can’t you just have a straight forward conversation and answer simple questions? What’s wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me! So do the US bear the financial burden of NATO or not? And why should we?

No the US funds the military based on what we want to do with our military. When we spend 650 billion dollars on defense we are paying troops, airplane manufacturers, food suppliers, defense contractors etc. we aren’t paying into a NATO fund like Mr POTUS likes to present it. There isn’t a NATO bill that we pay the majority of we are just funding our military and those are the numbers everybody is discussing. Do you get it now?

 

[Slade3200]

Trump wants to pull U.S. out of NATO: NYT

President Donald Trump has discussed pulling the United States out of NATO — a move that, if executed, would diminish America's world stature and embolden Russia to make advances against Europe, according to a new New York Times report.

"Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization," the paper reported on Monday.

----------------

So what do you think? Trump can't pull us out of NATO without help from the Senate.

Will the GOP Senate help Trump isolate us, finish off our agriculture and beef industries and isolate us from business around the world?

It is utter madness that we are treaty bound to fight a war over Estonia.

Do you understand what “ power through strength” means? The whole point of having an alliance like NATO is to detour war. There won’t be a war or invasion in Estonia because that means whoever is attacking would have to face the wrath of NATO and that is suicide, no country in their right mind will escalate it to that level. So instead of war there is dimplomacy.