Transgender woman sues VA spa

[Noomi]

Excuse me, but when we are talking about sex, the only thing that matters is biology. As for ID, it can be faked. If a 6 year old kid walks into a bar with ID that proves he is 21 should the bar serve him, or should they believe their eyes and throw him out?

If you read your own article, the only thing that made them suspect she was a male was the fact that she had bigger muscles, and broad shoulders.
They never asked her what gender she was.

It is not my article.

The thing is, I don't give a fuck what argument you come up with, any woman that does not want to use the same locker room as a man has a right to demand he leave, and that trumps anything the state, or the man who believes he is a woman, says about the issue. I full support individual rights, and will always refuse to let the state dictate to anyone. If that inconveniences a guy who dresses up as a woman occasionally, that is the price you pay for your kink.

By the way, you only have one side of the story, yet you are sure the person who is suing is telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, simply because your bias is so screwed up you think that government created LGBT rights trump biology. I am a hell of a lot more liberal than you are, and I still put science over government every day of the week.

This case has nothing to do with the woman wanting to use a locker room, does it?
It has to do with her being judged based solely on her appearance. A fact you conveniently ignore.

 

[Noomi]

Who said she has a penis?

California does not require one to be post operative before they change your gender, all they require is a doctor's note that you self identify as the gender you want to be be known as. What evidence do you have she does not have one?

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/dl/dl329.pdf

She was at a spa. She wasn't asked to leave because she had a bulge between her legs, was she?

However, I re-read the OP and realized she is legally a resident of CA, so her DL was most likely from CA.

So, if she is legally a man in VA, then I say she doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Funny how a license can mean one thing in one state, and another somewhere else...

 

[DiamondDave]

Another transgender thread by Novasteve. Color me surprised


The woman seems to have a valid case. She is legally female, the spa had no right to demand she leave.

You do realize that VA is under no obligation to recognize gender change just because California is willing to do so. On top of that, legal documents do not change natural science, despite your absurd belief in the supernatural power of government documents.

The state of VA will legally change your gender if you have undergone the proper surgery. If she had a VA DL then she is legally a woman in VA.

There is surgery to change your chromosome makeup??

Sorry.. you can nip and tick, implant or rearrange all you want.. XY is still male, XX is still female

 

[aaronleland]

I think a business owner should be free to discriminate against whomever they wish. I also think people should be free to call people out for the bigoted assholes that they are. I wish this woman/man(?) the best of luck, but her best bet is to take her business elsewhere.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Another transgender thread by Novasteve. Color me surprised


The woman seems to have a valid case. She is legally female, the spa had no right to demand she leave.

You do realize that VA is under no obligation to recognize gender change just because California is willing to do so. On top of that, legal documents do not change natural science, despite your absurd belief in the supernatural power of government documents.

The state of VA will legally change your gender if you have undergone the proper surgery. If she had a VA DL then she is legally a woman in VA.

You did not read the story, did you? She has a CA drivers license, VA does not allow a gender change until after you have an operation and get a court order.

Code of Virginia § 32.1-269 - Amending vital records; change of name; acknowledgment of paternity; change of sex :: Chapter 7 - Vital Records :: Title 32.1 ? HEALTH. :: 2006 Code of Virginia :: Code of Virginia :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: J

Like I said, VA is not under any obligation to follow CA law.

By the way, in TX you are always the sex of your birth, even if you were born in CA, have had the necessary cosmetic surgery, and have a valid birth certificate and DL that states otherwise. Quite a few transgender women have found this out to their horror if they make the mistake of committing a crime. "Don't mess with Texas" is not just a anti littering slogan.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Except there is a diffrence between what's moral and what's legal. As far as the spa knew she was simply a manly looking woman and they threw her out and embarrassed her because of her appearance alone, then they made the situation worse by issuing a statement saying they don't allow homosexuals in the spa.

You really don't get it, do you? Can I use the woman's locker room simply because I get a doctor's note, even if the women in there object? Shouldn't the women have the right not to take showers with men?

Is she legally a man?

I don't give a fuck if she is legally a Martian, women should not be forced to share a locker room with a man just because the government issues a decree.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you read your own article, the only thing that made them suspect she was a male was the fact that she had bigger muscles, and broad shoulders.
They never asked her what gender she was.

It is not my article.

The thing is, I don't give a fuck what argument you come up with, any woman that does not want to use the same locker room as a man has a right to demand he leave, and that trumps anything the state, or the man who believes he is a woman, says about the issue. I full support individual rights, and will always refuse to let the state dictate to anyone. If that inconveniences a guy who dresses up as a woman occasionally, that is the price you pay for your kink.

By the way, you only have one side of the story, yet you are sure the person who is suing is telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, simply because your bias is so screwed up you think that government created LGBT rights trump biology. I am a hell of a lot more liberal than you are, and I still put science over government every day of the week.

This case has nothing to do with the woman wanting to use a locker room, does it?
It has to do with her being judged based solely on her appearance. A fact you conveniently ignore.

I have to admit I haven't been to a spa for a few years, but the last time I went there were locker rooms where you could change, and they were separated by sex. I understand that they now have spas where women can go that actually prohibit men from walking through the main door. Some of them have a waiting area where men can wait for the woman to come out, but they cannot go inside.

Given that there was a question about the sex of the person, and that the staff actually checked, my guess is that it this spa was the latter type, and the women there have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that men are not allowed, which might result in a more relaxed dress code.

Feel free to correct my misapprehensions with your vast experience on unisex spas where women feel comfortable running around naked to get ogled by dirty old men.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who said she has a penis?

California does not require one to be post operative before they change your gender, all they require is a doctor's note that you self identify as the gender you want to be be known as. What evidence do you have she does not have one?

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/dl/dl329.pdf

She was at a spa. She wasn't asked to leave because she had a bulge between her legs, was she?

However, I re-read the OP and realized she is legally a resident of CA, so her DL was most likely from CA.

So, if she is legally a man in VA, then I say she doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Funny how a license can mean one thing in one state, and another somewhere else...

I don't know why she was asked to leave, neither do you.

It is not funny at all, it is one of the wonders of our current insistence on the power of imaginary lines.

 

[ScienceRocks]

This woman needs to learn about Jesus. I'm serious.

 

[J.E.D]

Yeah, this from the man who thinks HIV knows the difference between gay anal and straight anal.

Apparently it does. It picks on gay men a whole lot more than it picks on straight men...

see that I mean? a little slow on the uptake.

If you really believe that, you have lost this and all future arguments; because anybody who believes that HIV can discriminate is clearly not a very bright person.

 

[J.E.D]

This woman needs to learn about Jesus. I'm serious.

Says the guy with this avatar

 

[Skull Pilot]

If your DNA says you are male then you are male.

 

[midcan5]

Novasteve, you seem to be obsessed with this topic, are you having doubts? You can give it a try and that may help solve your latent desires, or even help you understand that another's shoes are different. Since we have already done this dance, below are links to my take on the topic.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...if-reality-re-transgender-26.html#post6487775
http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...if-reality-re-transgender-27.html#post6494821
http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...if-reality-re-transgender-28.html#post6514393

Ahh.. you THINK you won the argument because you say so.. typical for you

You say it's simple t prove by 'switch hitting'... even simpler.. show the gay gene... it's that simple... show the genetic makeup that makes gay..

Until that is shown.. it is either a choice, a learned behavior, or a disorder/imbalance... and if you go the disorder/imbalance route, what makes it so different than other disorders that are treated and cures sought??

I will as soon as you show me the gene that makes you heterosexual. Until that is shown it (it being heterosexual marriage) is a choice, a societal behavior, a learned experience, an often bad arrangement, a source of conflict and argument, a place of love and commitment, a hiding place of good and bad, a home that fosters society, a small society of its own, a source of exorbitant lawyer fees, a religious commitment, a societal commitment, a legal commitment, sometimes happy sometimes sad sometimes tragic sometimes profound. For me, married longer than most of you have lived, it is my granddaughter's jig when she sees her grandpa.

"Despite how straightforward and commonplace it may appear today, the heterosexual/homosexual juxtaposition was actually less to the fore in premodern times and, in effect, was nor universally observed. Equally, heterosexual love-however natural it may appear today-was seen in those earlier societies not so much as a rejection of homosexuality but rather as an alternative to nonsexual male-to-male relationships and, for that matter, the love of God advocated respectively by chivalric and religious practices and codes of conduct... There is today a clear need to rethink our attitude to heterosexuality...."

'The Invention of Heterosexual Culture' Louis-Georges Tin [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Heterosexual-Culture-Louis-Georges-Tin/dp/0262017709/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8]The Invention of Heterosexual Culture: Louis-Georges Tin: 9780262017701: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

_

 

[novasteve]

It is not my article.

The thing is, I don't give a fuck what argument you come up with, any woman that does not want to use the same locker room as a man has a right to demand he leave, and that trumps anything the state, or the man who believes he is a woman, says about the issue. I full support individual rights, and will always refuse to let the state dictate to anyone. If that inconveniences a guy who dresses up as a woman occasionally, that is the price you pay for your kink.

By the way, you only have one side of the story, yet you are sure the person who is suing is telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, simply because your bias is so screwed up you think that government created LGBT rights trump biology. I am a hell of a lot more liberal than you are, and I still put science over government every day of the week.

This case has nothing to do with the woman wanting to use a locker room, does it?
It has to do with her being judged based solely on her appearance. A fact you conveniently ignore.

I have to admit I haven't been to a spa for a few years, but the last time I went there were locker rooms where you could change, and they were separated by sex. I understand that they now have spas where women can go that actually prohibit men from walking through the main door. Some of them have a waiting area where men can wait for the woman to come out, but they cannot go inside.

Given that there was a question about the sex of the person, and that the staff actually checked, my guess is that it this spa was the latter type, and the women there have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that men are not allowed, which might result in a more relaxed dress code.

Feel free to correct my misapprehensions with your vast experience on unisex spas where women feel comfortable running around naked to get ogled by dirty old men.

Are men allowed to go inside of "Curves"? Can't wait for a tranny to demand to go into there.

 

[chikenwing]

. Biology doesn't matter, she had the documents (in this case, her license) to show she was a legal female.


The progressive corner stone,we can and will ignore what we please.

 

[Seawytch]

This case has nothing to do with the woman wanting to use a locker room, does it?
It has to do with her being judged based solely on her appearance. A fact you conveniently ignore.

I have to admit I haven't been to a spa for a few years, but the last time I went there were locker rooms where you could change, and they were separated by sex. I understand that they now have spas where women can go that actually prohibit men from walking through the main door. Some of them have a waiting area where men can wait for the woman to come out, but they cannot go inside.

Given that there was a question about the sex of the person, and that the staff actually checked, my guess is that it this spa was the latter type, and the women there have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that men are not allowed, which might result in a more relaxed dress code.

Feel free to correct my misapprehensions with your vast experience on unisex spas where women feel comfortable running around naked to get ogled by dirty old men.

Are men allowed to go inside of "Curves"? Can't wait for a tranny to demand to go into there.

Yes they are...if they've had a sex change...which the woman in VA obviously had.

The spa fucked up and they will pay the price. Of course, it won't be a legal price because it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against "those people" in Fairfax County VA, but they will be hurt by this.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The state does not have the power to override nature. We can sputter and posture all day, but if you are born male, you are male, even if you want to pretend otherwise. Cosmetic surgery, artificial hormones, and drivers licenses do not transcend biology.

If she was able to provide identification to state she was a female, the spa has to accept her. Biology doesn't matter, she had the documents (in this case, her license) to show she was a legal female.

So if the the gov gave a cat papers saying it was a dog,it's a dog in your mind?
We dont know the details of the case. But if she/he was walking around the locker room with it's junk hanging out I could see where that might be a problem.

 

[Seawytch]

The state does not have the power to override nature. We can sputter and posture all day, but if you are born male, you are male, even if you want to pretend otherwise. Cosmetic surgery, artificial hormones, and drivers licenses do not transcend biology.

If she was able to provide identification to state she was a female, the spa has to accept her. Biology doesn't matter, she had the documents (in this case, her license) to show she was a legal female.

So if the the gov gave a cat papers saying it was a dog,it's a dog in your mind?
We dont know the details of the case. But if she/he was walking around the locker room with it's junk hanging out I could see where that might be a problem.

What a stupid analogy. Is it at all conceivable that the government would issue papers to a dog or a cat? No, but they do issue licenses that state your gender. Hers says female because she is a female. There are no male parts. She's got a vagina and she's got boobs.

She had a sex change and was no longer biologically male. There was no "junk" to flop around.

 

[AmyNation]

You really don't get it, do you? Can I use the woman's locker room simply because I get a doctor's note, even if the women in there object? Shouldn't the women have the right not to take showers with men?

Is she legally a man?

I don't give a fuck if she is legally a Martian, women should not be forced to share a locker room with a man just because the government issues a decree.

Yeah, I kind of guessed that. It's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

 

[DiamondDave]

Novasteve, you seem to be obsessed with this topic, are you having doubts? You can give it a try and that may help solve your latent desires, or even help you understand that another's shoes are different. Since we have already done this dance, below are links to my take on the topic.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...if-reality-re-transgender-26.html#post6487775
http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...if-reality-re-transgender-27.html#post6494821
http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...if-reality-re-transgender-28.html#post6514393

Ahh.. you THINK you won the argument because you say so.. typical for you

You say it's simple t prove by 'switch hitting'... even simpler.. show the gay gene... it's that simple... show the genetic makeup that makes gay..

Until that is shown.. it is either a choice, a learned behavior, or a disorder/imbalance... and if you go the disorder/imbalance route, what makes it so different than other disorders that are treated and cures sought??

I will as soon as you show me the gene that makes you heterosexual. Until that is shown it (it being heterosexual marriage) is a choice, a societal behavior, a learned experience, an often bad arrangement, a source of conflict and argument, a place of love and commitment, a hiding place of good and bad, a home that fosters society, a small society of its own, a source of exorbitant lawyer fees, a religious commitment, a societal commitment, a legal commitment, sometimes happy sometimes sad sometimes tragic sometimes profound. For me, married longer than most of you have lived, it is my granddaughter's jig when she sees her grandpa.

"Despite how straightforward and commonplace it may appear today, the heterosexual/homosexual juxtaposition was actually less to the fore in premodern times and, in effect, was nor universally observed. Equally, heterosexual love-however natural it may appear today-was seen in those earlier societies not so much as a rejection of homosexuality but rather as an alternative to nonsexual male-to-male relationships and, for that matter, the love of God advocated respectively by chivalric and religious practices and codes of conduct... There is today a clear need to rethink our attitude to heterosexuality...."

'The Invention of Heterosexual Culture' Louis-Georges Tin [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Heterosexual-Culture-Louis-Georges-Tin/dp/0262017709/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8]The Invention of Heterosexual Culture: Louis-Georges Tin: 9780262017701: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

_

Heterosexual marriage IS A CHOICE... all marriage is a choice... all civil unions are a choice.. who you spend your life with is a choice.. Jeez

The gene that makes heterosexuality??Or the chromosome?? How about the 23 chromosomes that come together and form a little something no homosexual couple can. How about the PCDH11X/Y gene? Yet the choice of the action is still made by the person... It is not some mindless animal

And your little amazon book links.. priceless.. you can find a book supporting almost ANY opinion or unproven hypothesis