trade schools are better than higher ed. let me make the case, my friends!

[danielpalos]

prevailing wage might be more applicable to trades Dan....~S~

no one is preventing any higher wages, only engaging a "stop loss" for minimum wages.

 

[sparky]

hmmmm, well i always thought min wage applied to unskilled labor Dan...~S~

 

[danielpalos]

hmmmm, well i always thought min wage applied to unskilled labor Dan...~S~

unskilled labor costs more in a first world economy.

 

[MindWars]

Tradeschools are the way to go hands down. Colleges are a scam and they always were why do you think Bush created " leave no child behind" so the Gov. could enslave almost an entire population . The poor mostly. Knowing most could never pay it back and or would struggle to do so . It's much deeper than that but that's the basics. It's also to indoctrinate " LIBERAL UNIVERSITY" get it indoctrinate you.

 

[Unkotare]

Tradeschools are the way to go hands down. Colleges are a scam and they always were why do you think Bush created " leave no child behind" so the Gov. could enslave almost an entire population . The poor mostly. Knowing most could never pay it back and or would struggle to do so . It's much deeper than that but that's the basics. It's also to indoctrinate " LIBERAL UNIVERSITY" get it indoctrinate you.

Confine your idiocy to the conspiracy forum where it belongs.

 

[martybegan]

If you went to school to learn a trade, you must be lesser, because someone long ago decided that college should be called “higher” education. Considering the state of colleges and universities today, the word “higher” may be the most misleading of them all.

The way we speak about education is inherently classist. When a student of lesser means attends a traditional four-year school, we say she “overcame her circumstances.” When a student from a wealthy background chooses a trade school we say he didn’t “live up to expectations.” We are all but telling people that the trade jobs this country needs are dirty, and that skills-based education is for people without means or, much worse, without potential.

Different strokes for differ folks, a saying that certainly applies to folks making a decision about education.

First off, everyone should complete their high school education, whether you go to public school, private school, home schooled, or get a GED. Many large companies require a high school education for all jobs if you're over 21. Companies like fast food restaurants, retail sales, construction will hire you but they will do a double take when they see you don't have a high school education. The question is why don't. Completion of education always sends a message to employers that you have the ability to commit yourself to a task and finish it. Without a high school education, you're likely to hit a wage ceiling that can be difficult to surpass.

College is not for everyone. It is for everyone who has the ability to complete college without having to attend diploma mills and seek the easiest degrees. According to the US Census Bureau, a college degree is worth a million bucks over a lifetime.

The right kind of trade school, certification program, etc. can be very valuable to both those with and without college degrees. Many college curriculum particular liberal arts are great at teaching you to think, to study, and to analyze. You'll be able to talk to customers, your peers, and your bosses about a variety of subjects even in different languages. Unfortunately, you probably want have the specifics skills your employer is looking for unless you graduated in one of the hot fields in science or technology. Today in many of the vocational trades, employers want some basic job related education before they even take you on as an apprentice.

What high schools need to do is get away from the "Everyone to college" mindset and incorporate trade classes as electives to let kids get a feel for what they are good at, or at least what they want to try to do.

 

[Flopper]

Have you ever heard of "aptitude"?

I have an IQ over 140, but I am a terrible carpenter. Can't make a square cut to save my ass, and I do carpentry around the house all the time. I've tried laying brick, and I can't lay a neat slab of mortar. Can't run a clean or even bead of weld material.

I know guys who can do all that, but who can't spell, or lay out a logical argument to support something they "feel" to be true.

Parents should work to try to figure out where a kid's talents lie, and to help them develop their talents as far as possible. Maybe they have talents that will never lead to a good income, so they have to be shown to either learn to live on the cheap, or find something else that will pay the bills while they play music on the side.

Trouble is, some parents believe that if their kids don't go to college, they will never "amount to anything," which is total bullshit. Shame on such parents.

And always remember, the MOST PROMISING path to financial success in this country is ENTREPRENEURSHIP! There are millions and millions of wildly successful people in this country who are business owners or simply investors, and often, the business has nothing to do with their formal education. They are landscapers, builders, store owners, used car dealers, home-improvement contractors, roofers, consultants, and so on. EVERYONE should consider a small business their first economic goal, then if that doesn't work out, look elsewhere. And it's best to start that small business before you have a wife, kids, and a mortgage.

I don't disagree with anything you said. However, helping your kids determine their best path after high school can be really hard. I have a grandson who scores 1460 on his SAT, makes good grades in math and flunks everything else. He'll be a senior next year but may not graduate. He has no idea what he wants to do.

 

[Flopper]

If you went to school to learn a trade, you must be lesser, because someone long ago decided that college should be called “higher” education. Considering the state of colleges and universities today, the word “higher” may be the most misleading of them all.

The way we speak about education is inherently classist. When a student of lesser means attends a traditional four-year school, we say she “overcame her circumstances.” When a student from a wealthy background chooses a trade school we say he didn’t “live up to expectations.” We are all but telling people that the trade jobs this country needs are dirty, and that skills-based education is for people without means or, much worse, without potential.

Different strokes for differ folks, a saying that certainly applies to folks making a decision about education.

First off, everyone should complete their high school education, whether you go to public school, private school, home schooled, or get a GED. Many large companies require a high school education for all jobs if you're over 21. Companies like fast food restaurants, retail sales, construction will hire you but they will do a double take when they see you don't have a high school education. The question is why don't. Completion of education always sends a message to employers that you have the ability to commit yourself to a task and finish it. Without a high school education, you're likely to hit a wage ceiling that can be difficult to surpass.

College is not for everyone. It is for everyone who has the ability to complete college without having to attend diploma mills and seek the easiest degrees. According to the US Census Bureau, a college degree is worth a million bucks over a lifetime.

The right kind of trade school, certification program, etc. can be very valuable to both those with and without college degrees. Many college curriculum particular liberal arts are great at teaching you to think, to study, and to analyze. You'll be able to talk to customers, your peers, and your bosses about a variety of subjects even in different languages. Unfortunately, you probably want have the specifics skills your employer is looking for unless you graduated in one of the hot fields in science or technology. Today in many of the vocational trades, employers want some basic job related education before they even take you on as an apprentice.

What high schools need to do is get away from the "Everyone to college" mindset and incorporate trade classes as electives to let kids get a feel for what they are good at, or at least what they want to try to do.

That's a good idea but it won't work as long as parents are intent on seeing their kids graduate from college. A college degree carries about the same weight with employers today as a high school diploma did in the mid 20th century.

 

[martybegan]

If you went to school to learn a trade, you must be lesser, because someone long ago decided that college should be called “higher” education. Considering the state of colleges and universities today, the word “higher” may be the most misleading of them all.

The way we speak about education is inherently classist. When a student of lesser means attends a traditional four-year school, we say she “overcame her circumstances.” When a student from a wealthy background chooses a trade school we say he didn’t “live up to expectations.” We are all but telling people that the trade jobs this country needs are dirty, and that skills-based education is for people without means or, much worse, without potential.

Different strokes for differ folks, a saying that certainly applies to folks making a decision about education.

First off, everyone should complete their high school education, whether you go to public school, private school, home schooled, or get a GED. Many large companies require a high school education for all jobs if you're over 21. Companies like fast food restaurants, retail sales, construction will hire you but they will do a double take when they see you don't have a high school education. The question is why don't. Completion of education always sends a message to employers that you have the ability to commit yourself to a task and finish it. Without a high school education, you're likely to hit a wage ceiling that can be difficult to surpass.

College is not for everyone. It is for everyone who has the ability to complete college without having to attend diploma mills and seek the easiest degrees. According to the US Census Bureau, a college degree is worth a million bucks over a lifetime.

The right kind of trade school, certification program, etc. can be very valuable to both those with and without college degrees. Many college curriculum particular liberal arts are great at teaching you to think, to study, and to analyze. You'll be able to talk to customers, your peers, and your bosses about a variety of subjects even in different languages. Unfortunately, you probably want have the specifics skills your employer is looking for unless you graduated in one of the hot fields in science or technology. Today in many of the vocational trades, employers want some basic job related education before they even take you on as an apprentice.

What high schools need to do is get away from the "Everyone to college" mindset and incorporate trade classes as electives to let kids get a feel for what they are good at, or at least what they want to try to do.

That's a good idea but it won't work as long as parents are intent on seeing their kids graduate from college. A college degree carries about the same weight with employers today as a high school diploma did in the mid 20th century.

Isn't the problem that a college degree in aboriginal basket weaving holds NO weight with employers outside academia?

My employer looks for Engineering degrees because we are an Engineering firm. However how much does some media company value degrees outside of things like communications or graphic arts?

 

[sparky]

unskilled labor costs more in a first world economy.

indeed so Dan, and that segways into the whole insourcing debate....

What high schools need to do is get away from the "Everyone to college" mindset and incorporate trade classes as electives to let kids get a feel for what they are good at, or at least what they want to try to do.

Many trade related organizations reached out to guidance councilors through past years trying to present a 'trade' as an option ....

I don't disagree with anything you said. However, helping your kids determine their best path after high school can be really hard. I have a grandson who scores 1460 on his SAT, makes good grades in math and flunks everything else. He'll be a senior next year but may not graduate. He has no idea what he wants to do.

Nail/Head Flopper.

It can be hard to do......

I'd only say, if one has a 'hands on' youngster, that's not afraid of getting dirty , the trades might be a good avenue.

On top of that, and probably most important, do something you LIKE to do and want to get outta bed for daily

~S~

 

[Flopper]

If you went to school to learn a trade, you must be lesser, because someone long ago decided that college should be called “higher” education. Considering the state of colleges and universities today, the word “higher” may be the most misleading of them all.

The way we speak about education is inherently classist. When a student of lesser means attends a traditional four-year school, we say she “overcame her circumstances.” When a student from a wealthy background chooses a trade school we say he didn’t “live up to expectations.” We are all but telling people that the trade jobs this country needs are dirty, and that skills-based education is for people without means or, much worse, without potential.

Different strokes for differ folks, a saying that certainly applies to folks making a decision about education.

First off, everyone should complete their high school education, whether you go to public school, private school, home schooled, or get a GED. Many large companies require a high school education for all jobs if you're over 21. Companies like fast food restaurants, retail sales, construction will hire you but they will do a double take when they see you don't have a high school education. The question is why don't. Completion of education always sends a message to employers that you have the ability to commit yourself to a task and finish it. Without a high school education, you're likely to hit a wage ceiling that can be difficult to surpass.

College is not for everyone. It is for everyone who has the ability to complete college without having to attend diploma mills and seek the easiest degrees. According to the US Census Bureau, a college degree is worth a million bucks over a lifetime.

The right kind of trade school, certification program, etc. can be very valuable to both those with and without college degrees. Many college curriculum particular liberal arts are great at teaching you to think, to study, and to analyze. You'll be able to talk to customers, your peers, and your bosses about a variety of subjects even in different languages. Unfortunately, you probably want have the specifics skills your employer is looking for unless you graduated in one of the hot fields in science or technology. Today in many of the vocational trades, employers want some basic job related education before they even take you on as an apprentice.

What high schools need to do is get away from the "Everyone to college" mindset and incorporate trade classes as electives to let kids get a feel for what they are good at, or at least what they want to try to do.

That's a good idea but it won't work as long as parents are intent on seeing their kids graduate from college. A college degree carries about the same weight with employers today as a high school diploma did in the mid 20th century.

If you went to school to learn a trade, you must be lesser, because someone long ago decided that college should be called “higher” education. Considering the state of colleges and universities today, the word “higher” may be the most misleading of them all.

The way we speak about education is inherently classist. When a student of lesser means attends a traditional four-year school, we say she “overcame her circumstances.” When a student from a wealthy background chooses a trade school we say he didn’t “live up to expectations.” We are all but telling people that the trade jobs this country needs are dirty, and that skills-based education is for people without means or, much worse, without potential.

Different strokes for differ folks, a saying that certainly applies to folks making a decision about education.

First off, everyone should complete their high school education, whether you go to public school, private school, home schooled, or get a GED. Many large companies require a high school education for all jobs if you're over 21. Companies like fast food restaurants, retail sales, construction will hire you but they will do a double take when they see you don't have a high school education. The question is why don't. Completion of education always sends a message to employers that you have the ability to commit yourself to a task and finish it. Without a high school education, you're likely to hit a wage ceiling that can be difficult to surpass.

College is not for everyone. It is for everyone who has the ability to complete college without having to attend diploma mills and seek the easiest degrees. According to the US Census Bureau, a college degree is worth a million bucks over a lifetime.

The right kind of trade school, certification program, etc. can be very valuable to both those with and without college degrees. Many college curriculum particular liberal arts are great at teaching you to think, to study, and to analyze. You'll be able to talk to customers, your peers, and your bosses about a variety of subjects even in different languages. Unfortunately, you probably want have the specifics skills your employer is looking for unless you graduated in one of the hot fields in science or technology. Today in many of the vocational trades, employers want some basic job related education before they even take you on as an apprentice.

What high schools need to do is get away from the "Everyone to college" mindset and incorporate trade classes as electives to let kids get a feel for what they are good at, or at least what they want to try to do.

That's a good idea but it won't work as long as parents are intent on seeing their kids graduate from college. A college degree carries about the same weight with employers today as a high school diploma did in the mid 20th century.

Isn't the problem that a college degree in aboriginal basket weaving holds NO weight with employers outside academia?

My employer looks for Engineering degrees because we are an Engineering firm. However how much does some media company value degrees outside of things like communications or graphic arts?

What is happening in colleges is that most kids want to go for STEM majors, science, technology, engineering, accounting, and various healthcare degrees because that's where the jobs are and there're lots of scholarships available in these majors. However, the biggest problem is these are the more difficult majors, requiring a lot of math and advanced courses often aimed more at research than applications. After two years, many of the students have low GPA's and can't get through the most difficult courses so they change majors and end up in communications, psychology, sociology, general business, political science, majors that don't lead to good paying jobs. By changing majors they have also added one to two years to their 4 year curriculum which drives their college debt through the roof.

Kids that fall into this trap are not necessary well suited for trade schools but they also are not suited for these STEM occupations.

 

[danielpalos]

unskilled labor costs more in a first world economy.

indeed so Dan, and that segways into the whole insourcing debate....

What high schools need to do is get away from the "Everyone to college" mindset and incorporate trade classes as electives to let kids get a feel for what they are good at, or at least what they want to try to do.

Many trade related organizations reached out to guidance councilors through past years trying to present a 'trade' as an option ....

I don't disagree with anything you said. However, helping your kids determine their best path after high school can be really hard. I have a grandson who scores 1460 on his SAT, makes good grades in math and flunks everything else. He'll be a senior next year but may not graduate. He has no idea what he wants to do.

Nail/Head Flopper.

It can be hard to do......

I'd only say, if one has a 'hands on' youngster, that's not afraid of getting dirty , the trades might be a good avenue.

On top of that, and probably most important, do something you LIKE to do and want to get outta bed for daily

~S~

means nothing; we set the minimum wage and let markets "float" from there.

 

[martybegan]

If you went to school to learn a trade, you must be lesser, because someone long ago decided that college should be called “higher” education. Considering the state of colleges and universities today, the word “higher” may be the most misleading of them all.

The way we speak about education is inherently classist. When a student of lesser means attends a traditional four-year school, we say she “overcame her circumstances.” When a student from a wealthy background chooses a trade school we say he didn’t “live up to expectations.” We are all but telling people that the trade jobs this country needs are dirty, and that skills-based education is for people without means or, much worse, without potential.

Different strokes for differ folks, a saying that certainly applies to folks making a decision about education.

First off, everyone should complete their high school education, whether you go to public school, private school, home schooled, or get a GED. Many large companies require a high school education for all jobs if you're over 21. Companies like fast food restaurants, retail sales, construction will hire you but they will do a double take when they see you don't have a high school education. The question is why don't. Completion of education always sends a message to employers that you have the ability to commit yourself to a task and finish it. Without a high school education, you're likely to hit a wage ceiling that can be difficult to surpass.

College is not for everyone. It is for everyone who has the ability to complete college without having to attend diploma mills and seek the easiest degrees. According to the US Census Bureau, a college degree is worth a million bucks over a lifetime.

The right kind of trade school, certification program, etc. can be very valuable to both those with and without college degrees. Many college curriculum particular liberal arts are great at teaching you to think, to study, and to analyze. You'll be able to talk to customers, your peers, and your bosses about a variety of subjects even in different languages. Unfortunately, you probably want have the specifics skills your employer is looking for unless you graduated in one of the hot fields in science or technology. Today in many of the vocational trades, employers want some basic job related education before they even take you on as an apprentice.

What high schools need to do is get away from the "Everyone to college" mindset and incorporate trade classes as electives to let kids get a feel for what they are good at, or at least what they want to try to do.

That's a good idea but it won't work as long as parents are intent on seeing their kids graduate from college. A college degree carries about the same weight with employers today as a high school diploma did in the mid 20th century.

If you went to school to learn a trade, you must be lesser, because someone long ago decided that college should be called “higher” education. Considering the state of colleges and universities today, the word “higher” may be the most misleading of them all.

The way we speak about education is inherently classist. When a student of lesser means attends a traditional four-year school, we say she “overcame her circumstances.” When a student from a wealthy background chooses a trade school we say he didn’t “live up to expectations.” We are all but telling people that the trade jobs this country needs are dirty, and that skills-based education is for people without means or, much worse, without potential.

Different strokes for differ folks, a saying that certainly applies to folks making a decision about education.

First off, everyone should complete their high school education, whether you go to public school, private school, home schooled, or get a GED. Many large companies require a high school education for all jobs if you're over 21. Companies like fast food restaurants, retail sales, construction will hire you but they will do a double take when they see you don't have a high school education. The question is why don't. Completion of education always sends a message to employers that you have the ability to commit yourself to a task and finish it. Without a high school education, you're likely to hit a wage ceiling that can be difficult to surpass.

College is not for everyone. It is for everyone who has the ability to complete college without having to attend diploma mills and seek the easiest degrees. According to the US Census Bureau, a college degree is worth a million bucks over a lifetime.

The right kind of trade school, certification program, etc. can be very valuable to both those with and without college degrees. Many college curriculum particular liberal arts are great at teaching you to think, to study, and to analyze. You'll be able to talk to customers, your peers, and your bosses about a variety of subjects even in different languages. Unfortunately, you probably want have the specifics skills your employer is looking for unless you graduated in one of the hot fields in science or technology. Today in many of the vocational trades, employers want some basic job related education before they even take you on as an apprentice.

What high schools need to do is get away from the "Everyone to college" mindset and incorporate trade classes as electives to let kids get a feel for what they are good at, or at least what they want to try to do.

That's a good idea but it won't work as long as parents are intent on seeing their kids graduate from college. A college degree carries about the same weight with employers today as a high school diploma did in the mid 20th century.

Isn't the problem that a college degree in aboriginal basket weaving holds NO weight with employers outside academia?

My employer looks for Engineering degrees because we are an Engineering firm. However how much does some media company value degrees outside of things like communications or graphic arts?

What is happening in colleges is that most kids want to go for STEM majors, science, technology, engineering, accounting, and various healthcare degrees because that's where the jobs are and there're lots of scholarships available in these majors. However, the biggest problem is these are the more difficult majors, requiring a lot of math and advanced courses often aimed more at research than applications. After two years, many of the students have low GPA's and can't get through the most difficult courses so they change majors and end up in communications, psychology, sociology, general business, political science, majors that don't lead to good paying jobs. By changing majors they have also added one to two years to their 4 year curriculum which drives their college debt through the roof.

Kids that fall into this trap are not necessary well suited for trade schools but they also are not suited for these STEM occupations.

When i was in college (mid 90's) most of the Engineering washouts ended up in accounting or economics, and today most of them are doing just fine (they usually displaced the top GPA students who started as business majors at day one).

Of course things may have changed now, with the watering down of business degrees. Also ironically many of them were doing far better than those who stayed in Engineering (until 2008 beat most of them up)

 

[RandomPoster]

So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?

Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.

 

[Flopper]

So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?

Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.

Most people that drop out of school, are not Bill Gates. He had an SAT score of 1590 out of 1600. He and Paul Allen started their first business in high school at age 15. Gates was one in million.

 

[RandomPoster]

So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?

Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.

Most people that drop out of school, are not Bill Gates. He had an SAT score of 1590 out of 1600. He and Paul Allen started their first business in high school at age 15. Gates was one in million.

Most people that graduate are not Bill Gates either, nor is getting a degree going to turn most people into a multi-billionaire. Using a tiny handful of billionaires as an example is silly. Pointing out that the average college graduate makes more money is a better argument in my opinion.

 

[Flopper]

So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?

Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.

Most people that drop out of school, are not Bill Gates. He had an SAT score of 1590 out of 1600. He and Paul Allen started their first business in high school at age 15. Gates was one in million.

Most people that graduate are not Bill Gates either, nor is getting a degree going to turn most people into a multi-billionaire. Using a tiny handful of billionaires as an example is silly. Pointing out that the average college graduate makes more money is a better argument in my opinion.

Unfortunately, the advantage that comes from a college degree does not come immediately after graduation for most people. It comes over a period of years as the graduate get's experience and often more education. That's pretty disheartening for someone who worked their ass off for a degree and finds themselves with a college loan to pay off and a crappy job. No wonder so many new graduates bad mouth college.

 

[RandomPoster]

So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?

Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.

Most people that drop out of school, are not Bill Gates. He had an SAT score of 1590 out of 1600. He and Paul Allen started their first business in high school at age 15. Gates was one in million.

Most people that graduate are not Bill Gates either, nor is getting a degree going to turn most people into a multi-billionaire. Using a tiny handful of billionaires as an example is silly. Pointing out that the average college graduate makes more money is a better argument in my opinion.

Unfortunately, the advantage that comes from a college degree does not come immediately after graduation for most people. It comes over a period of years as the graduate get's experience and often more education. That's pretty disheartening for someone who worked their ass off for a degree and finds themselves with a college loan to pay off and a crappy job. No wonder so many new graduates bad mouth college.

Also, some of the actual pay increases from getting a higher degree come in public sector jobs funded by taxpayers where there is a policy that getting your Master's or PhD gets you a raise in and of itself. In private industry, it should theoretically give you a competitive advantage over someone who hasn't and actually might, except there is no artificial policy that automatically grants you a raise based on a higher degree. I do not buy the argument that every single graduating High School senior belongs in an institute of higher learning in the first place. There is nothing wrong with getting a High School diploma and a job afterwards. The whole everybody needs to get a college degree is a money making scheme.

Universities should themselves be trade schools. They should be trade schools for elite professions. If you want to be a surgeon, mathematician, physicist, etc. go to college. Third grade teachers do not need a Master's degree in Education to teach third grade reading, writing, and arithmetic.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If you went to school to learn a trade, you must be lesser, because someone long ago decided that college should be called “higher” education. Considering the state of colleges and universities today, the word “higher” may be the most misleading of them all.

The way we speak about education is inherently classist. When a student of lesser means attends a traditional four-year school, we say she “overcame her circumstances.” When a student from a wealthy background chooses a trade school we say he didn’t “live up to expectations.” We are all but telling people that the trade jobs this country needs are dirty, and that skills-based education is for people without means or, much worse, without potential.

Different strokes for differ folks, a saying that certainly applies to folks making a decision about education.

First off, everyone should complete their high school education, whether you go to public school, private school, home schooled, or get a GED. Many large companies require a high school education for all jobs if you're over 21. Companies like fast food restaurants, retail sales, construction will hire you but they will do a double take when they see you don't have a high school education. The question is why don't. Completion of education always sends a message to employers that you have the ability to commit yourself to a task and finish it. Without a high school education, you're likely to hit a wage ceiling that can be difficult to surpass.

College is not for everyone. It is for everyone who has the ability to complete college without having to attend diploma mills and seek the easiest degrees. According to the US Census Bureau, a college degree is worth a million bucks over a lifetime.

The right kind of trade school, certification program, etc. can be very valuable to both those with and without college degrees. Many college curriculum particular liberal arts are great at teaching you to think, to study, and to analyze. You'll be able to talk to customers, your peers, and your bosses about a variety of subjects even in different languages. Unfortunately, you probably want have the specifics skills your employer is looking for unless you graduated in one of the hot fields in science or technology. Today in many of the vocational trades, employers want some basic job related education before they even take you on as an apprentice.

I was with you right up through "College is not for everyone". And then you went off the rails. College is for everyone who needs a degree enough to incur that sort of expense/debt, and who can't acquire the necessary degree without it. Or anyone who has that kinda money to spend just for the hell of it.

A college degree MIGHT be worth a million bucks over a lifetime. OR it might be glorified toilet paper. Depends entirely on the degree and what your life plan is.

My experience of far too many college graduates is that they did NOT learn to think; they learned how to SOUND like they could think. Different skill set.

Understand that I'm a huge fan of being educated and informed, not just to get a job but in general. But there are a lot of ways to get there besides the traditional 4-year college huge-student-debt route, and people need to make a plan and think outside the box to achieve it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Have you ever heard of "aptitude"?

I have an IQ over 140, but I am a terrible carpenter. Can't make a square cut to save my ass, and I do carpentry around the house all the time. I've tried laying brick, and I can't lay a neat slab of mortar. Can't run a clean or even bead of weld material.

I know guys who can do all that, but who can't spell, or lay out a logical argument to support something they "feel" to be true.

Parents should work to try to figure out where a kid's talents lie, and to help them develop their talents as far as possible. Maybe they have talents that will never lead to a good income, so they have to be shown to either learn to live on the cheap, or find something else that will pay the bills while they play music on the side.

Trouble is, some parents believe that if their kids don't go to college, they will never "amount to anything," which is total bullshit. Shame on such parents.

And always remember, the MOST PROMISING path to financial success in this country is ENTREPRENEURSHIP! There are millions and millions of wildly successful people in this country who are business owners or simply investors, and often, the business has nothing to do with their formal education. They are landscapers, builders, store owners, used car dealers, home-improvement contractors, roofers, consultants, and so on. EVERYONE should consider a small business their first economic goal, then if that doesn't work out, look elsewhere. And it's best to start that small business before you have a wife, kids, and a mortgage.

I don't disagree with anything you said. However, helping your kids determine their best path after high school can be really hard. I have a grandson who scores 1460 on his SAT, makes good grades in math and flunks everything else. He'll be a senior next year but may not graduate. He has no idea what he wants to do.

My oldest son has always been very smart, and learned all of his basic academic courses quickly and easily. But aside from an interest in building airplanes when he was young, he never seemed to show a special aptitude in any specific area. We tried lots of things, but nothing stood out . . . until he got in high school and tried out some crafts classes and one in 3D computer imaging. Turns out that while he doesn't have the standard artistic talent for drawing and painting 2D images, he has a mad genius for how things fit together in 3 dimensions. And while he doesn't have the standard writing and storytelling skills one would look for in a fiction author, he's hell on wheels when it comes to designing and executing elaborate and fascinating roleplaying game(!) storylines. So now he's going to school to become a video game designer.

My youngest has decided that he wants to be a zookeeper, because he loves animals, but doesn't want to have to hurt them (so veterinarian is totally out). We'll see.

Parenting in this day and age is just weird.