Town halls gone wild

[Newby]

There is no time and place to prevent people from interacting with their reps.

Which is exactly what you are defending. Do you expect them to just shut up and go away? Isn't that what you want?

I never thought I'd see the day where leftist progressives were complaining about protesting the government. Absolutely hilarious.

 

[Newby]

I'm seriously looking for the 'professionals' showing up at these protests. Throw all the funding sources accusations you care to and they may be trying to do so, but it's not 'pros' showing up. It's pretty much Joe and Jane citizen, a bit older than the national average.

For one thing - exactly how would you know they are or are not 'professionals'? Do 'professionals' wear a special uniform? Are they a special age group? Do they wear badges stating "professional agitator"?

Other then that though, while those showing up may be "average" citizens - they have been well instructed and funded by "pro's" on how to disrupt a townhall meeting - meetings where other "average" citizens might want to hear what the speaker has to say. Imagine that!

I don't think repetition is working anymore for the Dems, and I'll concede that it's worked very well for them in the past, but people are fed up. Until someone can offer irrefutable evidence that these are 'pros', then you really should quit spreading the propaganda put out by your party leaders. All you are doing is repeating what you've heard elsewhere w/o really knowing if it's true or not. It's not going to work in this case like it has in the past. Sorry.

 

[Annie]

Tell the truth, dive. How would you react if it were liberals disrupting Republicans' townhalls to the point their opponents or the reps themselves weren't able to speak? How did you feel about Cindy Sheehan's protests? Code Pink? And remember I've known you on forums for years, now

I remember the right wing being outraged about that Code Pink woman that tried to talk to McCain during his acceptance speech. I mean seriously outraged.

...then you would also remember the posters from the left that claimed, 'protest is the most patriotic action one can take...

I think we can probably find some posts about those Code Pink, ACORN, SEIU, Soros funded protests. Should be interesting to compare the 'spontaneity and professionally directed' protests.

 

[Coyote]

I'm seriously looking for the 'professionals' showing up at these protests. Throw all the funding sources accusations you care to and they may be trying to do so, but it's not 'pros' showing up. It's pretty much Joe and Jane citizen, a bit older than the national average.

For one thing - exactly how would you know they are or are not 'professionals'? Do 'professionals' wear a special uniform? Are they a special age group? Do they wear badges stating "professional agitator"?

Other then that though, while those showing up may be "average" citizens - they have been well instructed and funded by "pro's" on how to disrupt a townhall meeting - meetings where other "average" citizens might want to hear what the speaker has to say. Imagine that!

I don't think repetition is working anymore for the Dems, and I'll concede that it's worked very well for them in the past, but people are fed up. Until someone can offer irrefutable evidence that these are 'pros', then you really should quit spreading the propaganda put out by your party leaders. All you are doing is repeating what you've heard elsewhere w/o really knowing if it's true or not. It's not going to work in this case like it has in the past. Sorry.

I think there is a bit of distortion here - they aren't all saying the attendees are "pro's" but that they are funded and organized by "pro's" and there is clear evidence for that - at best, it's a mix of honest sentiment and political and corporate manipulation much like the "Tea Party" movement, but with the clear intent of derailing health reform through disruption. They are doing exactly what they accused the Dems of doing through Moveon.org or war protesting.

 

[Coyote]

Tell the truth, dive. How would you react if it were liberals disrupting Republicans' townhalls to the point their opponents or the reps themselves weren't able to speak? How did you feel about Cindy Sheehan's protests? Code Pink? And remember I've known you on forums for years, now

I remember the right wing being outraged about that Code Pink woman that tried to talk to McCain during his acceptance speech. I mean seriously outraged.

...then you would also remember the posters from the left that claimed, 'protest is the most patriotic action one can take...

I think we can probably find some posts about those Code Pink, ACORN, SEIU, Soros funded protests. Should be interesting to compare the 'spontaneity and professionally directed' protests.

And I think you'll find that in many cases - the "spontaneity" is just as "spontanious" as these Townhall disruptions or the Tea Bag movement -- in otherwords well funded and well organized by pro's. I find it amusing that the GoP keeps pretending it's otherwise.

What a bunch of hypocrites - both parties.

 

[Coyote]

There is no time and place to prevent people from interacting with their reps.

Which is exactly what you are defending. Do you expect them to just shut up and go away? Isn't that what you want?

I never thought I'd see the day where leftist progressives were complaining about protesting the government. Absolutely hilarious.

Actually - yes. In a manner of speaking.

Their intent is not to "be heard" - it's to disrupt the meetings so NO ONE ELSE can be heard.

If I were at one of those meetings it would be because I would want information - the chance to ask questions, listen to answers, and have my views heard - it would not be to DROWN OUT the opposition through rude and immature mob-like behavior.

Maybe it's just me - but I find it rude - not patriotic.

 

[Annie]

For one thing - exactly how would you know they are or are not 'professionals'? Do 'professionals' wear a special uniform? Are they a special age group? Do they wear badges stating "professional agitator"?

Other then that though, while those showing up may be "average" citizens - they have been well instructed and funded by "pro's" on how to disrupt a townhall meeting - meetings where other "average" citizens might want to hear what the speaker has to say. Imagine that!

I don't think repetition is working anymore for the Dems, and I'll concede that it's worked very well for them in the past, but people are fed up. Until someone can offer irrefutable evidence that these are 'pros', then you really should quit spreading the propaganda put out by your party leaders. All you are doing is repeating what you've heard elsewhere w/o really knowing if it's true or not. It's not going to work in this case like it has in the past. Sorry.

I think there is a bit of distortion here - they aren't all saying the attendees are "pro's" but that they are funded and organized by "pro's" and there is clear evidence for that - at best, it's a mix of honest sentiment and political and corporate manipulation much like the "Tea Party" movement, but with the clear intent of derailing health reform through disruption. They are doing exactly what they accused the Dems of doing through Moveon.org or war protesting.

Actually there are demonstrable differences between the professionalism of the protests of the Moveon/Soros funded and what one is seeing today. Moveon was not able to get most of the leftists here to their demonstrations, they supplied the posters-check out the pics from back when, they were 'professionally printed' and often had the SEIU donated tag on them. Not seeing that today, as Boxer said, these folks are dressing 'too nice' and showing up with hand printed/drawn/illustrated posters.

I saw the idiot that had one of the congressmen depicted in 'effigy' yet, that was nearly a weekly occurrence regarding Bush/Cheney and there was a decided lack of outrage, in fact many used it for an avatar.

Perhaps most telling is that the left is trying to say these 'protests' are different than the 'tea parties' they were ridiculing not so long ago, for lack of numbers. I said at the time it was a process and would come to grow. Are there sources on the Right that are letting people know where so and so will be speaking? Sure, but it's not 'paid' agitation and busing isn't be paid for, as soros funded left events are.

 

[Annie]

I remember the right wing being outraged about that Code Pink woman that tried to talk to McCain during his acceptance speech. I mean seriously outraged.

...then you would also remember the posters from the left that claimed, 'protest is the most patriotic action one can take...

I think we can probably find some posts about those Code Pink, ACORN, SEIU, Soros funded protests. Should be interesting to compare the 'spontaneity and professionally directed' protests.

And I think you'll find that in many cases - the "spontaneity" is just as "spontanious" as these Townhall disruptions or the Tea Bag movement -- in otherwords well funded and well organized by pro's. I find it amusing that the GoP keeps pretending it's otherwise.

What a bunch of hypocrites - both parties.

Nope, I'm on multiple lists from the right, I get emails about 'Durbin' and 'Roskum' but not one offer to earn money or get a ride. That is a large difference. This is a movement that is getting organized, may well lead to a 3rd party.

 

[Newby]

There is no time and place to prevent people from interacting with their reps.

Which is exactly what you are defending. Do you expect them to just shut up and go away? Isn't that what you want?

I never thought I'd see the day where leftist progressives were complaining about protesting the government. Absolutely hilarious.

Actually - yes. In a manner of speaking.

Their intent is not to "be heard" - it's to disrupt the meetings so NO ONE ELSE can be heard.

If I were at one of those meetings it would be because I would want information - the chance to ask questions, listen to answers, and have my views heard - it would not be to DROWN OUT the opposition through rude and immature mob-like behavior.

Maybe it's just me - but I find it rude - not patriotic.

So, you advocate taking away the right to free speech on a selective group of your fellow Americans? If they don't agree with you, they should just shut the hell up? How can you even have such a stance??

You have shown no evidence of an 'immature mob' at any of them. I've seen the videos of them, and it is not an 'immature mob', nor is it people having been coerced by insurance companies. Until you can provide proof of either of these, you should quit spreading propaganda put out by your party leaders in an effort to shut up hard working, honest Americans that have every right to voice their opinions.

You can find it rude all you like, that is your opinion. The difference is this time that no one cares whether those on the left find it 'rude'. I found it offensive for many years what those on the left have done, but I've never questioned their right to do it. That's the difference between you and I.

 

[Ravi]

I saw the idiot that had one of the congressmen depicted in 'effigy' yet, that was nearly a weekly occurrence regarding Bush/Cheney and there was a decided lack of outrage, in fact many used it for an avatar.

 

[Coyote]

I don't think repetition is working anymore for the Dems, and I'll concede that it's worked very well for them in the past, but people are fed up. Until someone can offer irrefutable evidence that these are 'pros', then you really should quit spreading the propaganda put out by your party leaders. All you are doing is repeating what you've heard elsewhere w/o really knowing if it's true or not. It's not going to work in this case like it has in the past. Sorry.

I think there is a bit of distortion here - they aren't all saying the attendees are "pro's" but that they are funded and organized by "pro's" and there is clear evidence for that - at best, it's a mix of honest sentiment and political and corporate manipulation much like the "Tea Party" movement, but with the clear intent of derailing health reform through disruption. They are doing exactly what they accused the Dems of doing through Moveon.org or war protesting.

Actually there are demonstrable differences between the professionalism of the protests of the Moveon/Soros funded and what one is seeing today. Moveon was not able to get most of the leftists here to their demonstrations, they supplied the posters-check out the pics from back when, they were 'professionally printed' and often had the SEIU donated tag on them. Not seeing that today, as Boxer said, these folks are dressing 'too nice' and showing up with hand printed/drawn/illustrated posters.

[/quote]

The only difference is in detail - which isn't substantive. Professional organizations are providing would-be protesters with kits, suggestions for signs and banners and tactics to use. The fact that they don't send them the actual material signs or the fact that they dress nicely doesn't change the organization and funding that is going on behind it to mobilize them.

I saw the idiot that had one of the congressmen depicted in 'effigy' yet, that was nearly a weekly occurrence regarding Bush/Cheney and there was a decided lack of outrage, in fact many used it for an avatar.

Perhaps most telling is that the left is trying to say these 'protests' are different than the 'tea parties' they were ridiculing not so long ago, for lack of numbers. I said at the time it was a process and would come to grow. Are there sources on the Right that are letting people know where so and so will be speaking? Sure, but it's not 'paid' agitation and busing isn't be paid for, as soros funded left events are.

Not all the "leftist" agitation was "paid" - any more than that of the right - there were many legitimate protesters who felt strongly about their cause.

It just shows up the utter hypocrisy of both sides: the conservatives insisting that theirs is a "grassroots" movement and somehow "different" from the liberal's "astroturf" movement and the liberals whining about the falsity of the conservative's protests.

It's all bunk but each side feels they have to defend their own hypocrisy from the critics.

 

[Annie]

Seems right now the Democrats are trying to get the representatives to cancel such meetings, come back and vote 'Yes' for the HCR. I think the results are not what they are hoping for. They seem to believe if the refuse to provide the forum, these naysayers will STFU. Radicalization is happening and the 'left' is not thinking beyond their nose.

 

[MaggieMae]

Tell the truth, dive. How would you react if it were liberals disrupting Republicans' townhalls to the point their opponents or the reps themselves weren't able to speak? How did you feel about Cindy Sheehan's protests? Code Pink? And remember I've known you on forums for years, now

I remember the right wing being outraged about that Code Pink woman that tried to talk to McCain during his acceptance speech. I mean seriously outraged.

...then you would also remember the posters from the left that claimed, 'protest is the most patriotic action one can take...

I think we can probably find some posts about those Code Pink, ACORN, SEIU, Soros funded protests. Should be interesting to compare the 'spontaneity and professionally directed' protests.

Anytime I see George Soros mentioned, I know that the person is stuck forever in the black hole of the right wing noise machine. The guy is an INVESTOR in many things, just as some of the mega-billionnaires who have invested heavily in right wing people and projects over the years and no more evil than they are.

 

[Coyote]

Which is exactly what you are defending. Do you expect them to just shut up and go away? Isn't that what you want?

I never thought I'd see the day where leftist progressives were complaining about protesting the government. Absolutely hilarious.

Actually - yes. In a manner of speaking.

Their intent is not to "be heard" - it's to disrupt the meetings so NO ONE ELSE can be heard.

If I were at one of those meetings it would be because I would want information - the chance to ask questions, listen to answers, and have my views heard - it would not be to DROWN OUT the opposition through rude and immature mob-like behavior.

Maybe it's just me - but I find it rude - not patriotic.

So, you advocate taking away the right to free speech on a selective group of your fellow Americans? If they don't agree with you, they should just shut the hell up? How can you even have such a stance??

Of course not - where did I say that even remotely?

You and I both know there are limits on free speech (for example - you can't yell "fire" in a theatre when there is no fire) - and no where did I say they should "shut the hell up" did I? I said people should behave politely and professionally sponsored agitators such as these aren't doing that nor do they want to since their aim is disruption. As such - I have every right to use my "free speech" to tell them to shut the fuck up and wait their turn so I can hear what people are trying to say without others trying to drown them out.

I recall instances where leftist protestors for Bush events were turned away for wearing obnoxious t-shirts or relegated to "free speech" zones well away from the main events. Where was your outrage then?

You have shown no evidence of an 'immature mob' at any of them. I've seen the videos of them, and it is not an 'immature mob', nor is it people having been coerced by insurance companies. Until you can provide proof of either of these, you should quit spreading propaganda put out by your party leaders in an effort to shut up hard working, honest Americans that have every right to voice their opinions.

I did not say "coerced" - I said organized and funded by, and I and others have offered links showing that in that regard they are no different then moveon.org and Code Pink's "grassroots" protesters. In fact - no one seems to be able to refute that fact except by trying to draw distinctions between "their" movements and Code Pink or Moveon.org - distinctions that are more semantical then substantive.

P.S. - I don't have a party.

You can find it rude all you like, that is your opinion. The difference is this time that no one cares whether those on the left find it 'rude'. I found it offensive for many years what those on the left have done, but I've never questioned their right to do it. That's the difference between you and I.

Of course it's my opinion - this whole thread is about "opinion" more than fact: opinions that say their movements are some how holier-than-thou, more rightious and authentically "grass roots" when we all know it's astroturf every step of the way. Just follow the money. And I have not questioned their "right" to do so any more then you have. I'm just saying I have a just as much a right to tell them to shut up so I can hear the voices they are trying to drown out.

And that, my friend - is my right too.

 

[Coyote]

I remember the right wing being outraged about that Code Pink woman that tried to talk to McCain during his acceptance speech. I mean seriously outraged.

...then you would also remember the posters from the left that claimed, 'protest is the most patriotic action one can take...

I think we can probably find some posts about those Code Pink, ACORN, SEIU, Soros funded protests. Should be interesting to compare the 'spontaneity and professionally directed' protests.

Anytime I see George Soros mentioned, I know that the person is stuck forever in the black hole of the right wing noise machine. The guy is an INVESTOR in many things, just as some of the mega-billionnaires who have invested heavily in right wing people and projects over the years and no more evil than they are.

But....but....isn't George Soros linked to the devil and the number of the beast and .... Al Queda....and he probably funded 9/11.....

 

[Annie]

...then you would also remember the posters from the left that claimed, 'protest is the most patriotic action one can take...

I think we can probably find some posts about those Code Pink, ACORN, SEIU, Soros funded protests. Should be interesting to compare the 'spontaneity and professionally directed' protests.

Anytime I see George Soros mentioned, I know that the person is stuck forever in the black hole of the right wing noise machine. The guy is an INVESTOR in many things, just as some of the mega-billionnaires who have invested heavily in right wing people and projects over the years and no more evil than they are.

But....but....isn't George Soros linked to the devil and the number of the beast and .... Al Queda....and he probably funded 9/11.....

Hmm, I stated 'funded' you stated 'invested', them went on about the beast. You think I'm twisted? LOL! I'm as far from bible thumper that you are going to get. Twit.

 

[MaggieMae]

For one thing - exactly how would you know they are or are not 'professionals'? Do 'professionals' wear a special uniform? Are they a special age group? Do they wear badges stating "professional agitator"?

Other then that though, while those showing up may be "average" citizens - they have been well instructed and funded by "pro's" on how to disrupt a townhall meeting - meetings where other "average" citizens might want to hear what the speaker has to say. Imagine that!

I don't think repetition is working anymore for the Dems, and I'll concede that it's worked very well for them in the past, but people are fed up. Until someone can offer irrefutable evidence that these are 'pros', then you really should quit spreading the propaganda put out by your party leaders. All you are doing is repeating what you've heard elsewhere w/o really knowing if it's true or not. It's not going to work in this case like it has in the past. Sorry.

I think there is a bit of distortion here - they aren't all saying the attendees are "pro's" but that they are funded and organized by "pro's" and there is clear evidence for that - at best, it's a mix of honest sentiment and political and corporate manipulation much like the "Tea Party" movement, but with the clear intent of derailing health reform through disruption. They are doing exactly what they accused the Dems of doing through Moveon.org or war protesting.

I understand that many of these folks are upset about the whole ball of wax of big government and big spending, not just the potential for the high cost of health care reform. So my question would be why weren't there such angry protests day in and day out when Republicans held a majority and were pushing their spending programs? Were there big protests against Reagan's expansion (bailout) of Social Security which actually taxed high earners? Were they in the streets protesting the expansion of Medicare by giving a select group of voters (elderly) billions of dollars worth of free prescription drugs annually?

Why is it that "enough is enough" happens on the Democrats' watch and never the Republicans' watch?

 

[del]

I remember the right wing being outraged about that Code Pink woman that tried to talk to McCain during his acceptance speech. I mean seriously outraged.

...then you would also remember the posters from the left that claimed, 'protest is the most patriotic action one can take...

I think we can probably find some posts about those Code Pink, ACORN, SEIU, Soros funded protests. Should be interesting to compare the 'spontaneity and professionally directed' protests.

Anytime I see George Soros mentioned, I know that the person is stuck forever in the black hole of the right wing noise machine. The guy is an INVESTOR in many things, just as some of the mega-billionnaires who have invested heavily in right wing people and projects over the years and no more evil than they are.

anytime i see the right wing noise machine mentioned, i know that the person is stuck in the morass of rabid partisanship that has come to define current american politics on both sides.

sad.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Every time a "birther" brings up the birth certificate a Republican loses votes. LOL!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Every time a "birther" brings up the birth certificate a Republican loses votes. LOL!

Source?