Torture, or whatever you want to call it, "justified" by majority

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Torture, or whatever you want to call it, "justified" by majority of Americans.

New poll finds majority of Americans believe torture justified after 9 11 attacks - The Washington Post

By an almost 2-1 margin, or 59-to-31 percent, those interviewed support the CIA’s brutal methods, with the vast majority of supporters saying they produced valuable intelligence.

Just goes to show how fragile our rights and liberties are that fear, not rationality, would allow us to justify torture. Saying they "believed" it produced "valuable intelligence" is not the same as actually producing "valuable intelligence".

Never trust your rights to public opinion because some day you might be on the wrong side of it.

Hey knucklehead, the rights you speak of are OUR RIGHTS. No towlehead from the Middle East that kills innocent Americans deserve OUR rights. Hell imo they give up their human rights when they kill indiscriminately like they do.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Never underestimate the stupidity in this country.

I never underestimate the stupidity of some USMB posters. Read into that whatever you will.

I'm in agreement with you totally, Meathead.

meat·head
ˈmētˌhed/
noun
informal

1. a stupid person.

dingbat
[ding-bat] Spell Syllables

• Examples
• Word Origin

noun
1.
Slang. an eccentric, silly, or empty-headed person.

My name is Carla. I'm not stupid enough to name myself meathead/dingbat.

Doesn't matter, you're still a dingbat.

You couldn't have picked a better screen name.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Torture, or whatever you want to call it, "justified" by majority of Americans.

New poll finds majority of Americans believe torture justified after 9 11 attacks - The Washington Post

By an almost 2-1 margin, or 59-to-31 percent, those interviewed support the CIA’s brutal methods, with the vast majority of supporters saying they produced valuable intelligence.

Never underestimate the stupidity in this country.

I never underestimate the stupidity of some USMB posters. Read into that whatever you will.

I'm in agreement with you totally, Meathead.

meat·head
ˈmētˌhed/
noun
informal

1. a stupid person.

dingbat
[ding-bat] Spell Syllables

• Examples
• Word Origin

noun
1.
Slang. an eccentric, silly, or empty-headed person.

My name is Carla. I'm not stupid enough to name myself meathead/dingbat.

Did you say 'crawler'???

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

All you have to do is look at what those animals did yesterday.. this is who we are dealing with. They deserve nothing.

 

[georgephillip]

All you have to do is look at what those animals did yesterday.. this is who we are dealing with. They deserve nothing.

 

[PoliticalChic]

All you have to do is look at what those animals did yesterday.. this is who we are dealing with. They deserve nothing.

You imbecile....did you miss the word 'yesterday' in his post?

 

[Claudette]

Wars will always be fought and civilians will always die in those wars and only an idiot like you would believe otherwise.

War could be exterminated just like chattel slavery, but not if its demise depends on slaves like you.

War will never be exterminated. Wars will always be fought somewhere in the world.

Your Utopia doesn't exist and never will.

Put on your big boy pants and stop acting like a Campfire Girl with your skirt on fire.

Jesus, what an idiot you are.

 

[georgephillip]

You imbecile....did you miss the word 'yesterday' in his post?

Obviously, you missed Nuremberg, Ninny:
"The International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, which followed World War II, called the waging of aggressive war "essentially an evil thing...to initiate a war of aggression...is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."
Yesterday was part of "the accumulated evil of the whole."

War of aggression - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

War will never be exterminated. Wars will always be fought somewhere in the world.

The same level of stupidity held slavery would never be abolished; I suppose you're blind to the connection between war and slavery, aren't you, Sissy?

 

[Conservative65]

Why don't you join them

Because I'm right and you're wrong.

Only in your simple mind. If you aren't willing to fight with me in a level to win instead of to play nice, I don't want you on my team traitor.

 

[Conservative65]

War will never be exterminated. Wars will always be fought somewhere in the world.

The same level of stupidity held slavery would never be abolished; I suppose you're blind to the connection between war and slavery, aren't you, Sissy?

Slavery hasn't been abolished. People like you that support social welfare leeches keep them as slaves to the government.

 

[georgephillip]

If you aren't willing to fight with me in a level to win instead of to play nice, I don't want you on my team traitor.

It's not your team.
It's my team.
Slaves need not apply.

 

[georgephillip]

Slavery hasn't been abolished. People like you that support social welfare leeches keep them as slaves to the government.

Slaves fight and die in wars so people like you can blame social welfare leeches on government instead of capitalism.

 

[Contumacious]

Torture, or whatever you want to call it, "justified" by majority of Americans.

New poll finds majority of Americans believe torture justified after 9 11 attacks - The Washington Post

By an almost 2-1 margin, or 59-to-31 percent, those interviewed support the CIA’s brutal methods, with the vast majority of supporters saying they produced valuable intelligence.

You don't understand.

If al Muslim pours water over a cloth covering the face and breathing passages of an immobilized captive American , causing him to experience the sensation of drowning., that's torture.

But when a CIA agent does it to a Muslim its just an efficient interrogation technique.

.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Meathead]

Torture, or whatever you want to call it, "justified" by majority of Americans.

New poll finds majority of Americans believe torture justified after 9 11 attacks - The Washington Post

By an almost 2-1 margin, or 59-to-31 percent, those interviewed support the CIA’s brutal methods, with the vast majority of supporters saying they produced valuable intelligence.

You don't understand.

If al Muslim pours water over a cloth covering the face and breathing passages of an immobilized captive American , causing him to experience the sensation of drowning., that's torture.

But when a CIA agent does it to a Muslim its just an efficient interrogation technique.

.

I did not state an opinion on semantics. I don't give a rat's ass if it's called torture or not, as the title of the thread clearly suggests.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Again, it comes as no surprise the contempt most conservatives have for the rule of law.

 

[Claudette]

War will never be exterminated. Wars will always be fought somewhere in the world.

The same level of stupidity held slavery would never be abolished; I suppose you're blind to the connection between war and slavery, aren't you, Sissy?

Slavery also goes on and has gone on for hundreds of years. Catch a clue idiot.

War isn't slavery and wars will always be fought somewhere in the world and nothing you say will ever change that.

Talk about stupidity. You sure are one stupid bastard.

 

[Coyote]

Torture, or whatever you want to call it, "justified" by majority of Americans.

New poll finds majority of Americans believe torture justified after 9 11 attacks - The Washington Post

By an almost 2-1 margin, or 59-to-31 percent, those interviewed support the CIA’s brutal methods, with the vast majority of supporters saying they produced valuable intelligence.

Just goes to show how fragile our rights and liberties are that fear, not rationality, would allow us to justify torture. Saying they "believed" it produced "valuable intelligence" is not the same as actually producing "valuable intelligence".

Never trust your rights to public opinion because some day you might be on the wrong side of it.

Hey knucklehead, the rights you speak of are OUR RIGHTS. No towlehead from the Middle East that kills innocent Americans deserve OUR rights. Hell imo they give up their human rights when they kill indiscriminately like they do.

Everyone deserves the same rights and due process.

We aren't ISIS.

 

[Coyote]

The way questions work PC, is we take turns. I answer one of yours, you then answer one of mine. Then I'll answer your question with the new conditions and offer one of my own (same question with more restrictive conditions). You don't keep adding conditions to change the nature of your question and demanding new answers.

If you don't want to play, that is fine with me.

I'll give you some freebies in hopes that you will be honest enough to provide some answers to my questions. Do you think you can manage that or is that an overly optimistic expectation?

You've reworded your question multiple times adding new conditions. I answered your initial question - which was pretty broad - with a "No". You got that part right?

Your new conditions have created multiple new questions:

One appears to be this: if an interregator "hits a wall" with a suspect, presumably in connection with saving a bunch of children such as in the Pakistan school bombing - would I agree to torture? This implies an ideal situation that seldom exists in reality. Theoretically (I'm anticipating you will add these conditions) - we *know* the person has the information without question and all other means have been exhausted, and it's a "ticking time bomb". Of course I would answer "yes".

Now...do you have the integrity to answer a question in return - one based on the above as it tends to occur in real life?


You have a group, like Boko Haran, holding a group of kidnapped children hostage. They might be killed, raped, sold - no one knows where they are or when their fates will be decided. You know that they have "presence" in a particular area, and a lot of influence on locals and recruits amongst them. You do a general sweep, based on informants information, sharing of gossip etc which may or may not be accurate. You come down to a handful of men, 3 maybe whom you think might know something but you aren't sure. You are pressured for time but it's not battlefield critical. All deny knowledge of the whereabouts of the children no matter how pressed and threatened. Information gained from torture is known to be unreliable (people will say what ever they think will stop the torture).

You have questions:

• do these men have any information of value in the first place?
  
• if they do, how can you get it? how will you know if it's accurate or if they are saying something they think you want to hear?
  
• How much time do we have and will the process take?

You have choices:

• continue with more conventional means (which includes the threat of violence, intimidation as well as attemtping to gain trust) in hopes that some one will relent and give out useful information;
  
• resort to torture and hope that you will get useful infomation;
  
• decide that they don't have useful information and let them go

Choices have consequences:

• if you continue with more conventional means, it might take more time but provide more accurate information but the children might die in the process
  
• if you choose torture you will get the information faster but it might not be accurate, it might send you on a wild goose chase and cost you valuable time and the children might die in the process
• letting them go - same consequences as #1, you will need to continue searching for someone who knows losing valuable time

What do you choose to do?
Why do you make that choice?


Those are questions with added conditions - kind of like yours.

Then, there is my original question:
...if you could save the 80-90 children slaughtered by the savages, and information could be gained either with or without torture but you couldn't be sure which would work - would you have acquiesced to torture?

Any answers PC or more dodging and weaseling?

So PoliticalChic - are you going to keep on dodging or show some integrity?