Time for all of us to just say it, the US is finished

[JustTheFacts]

I think the message was sent by the President
and he said it loud and clear just what the Democrat party thinks of
people who strive to achieve in this country.
To sacrifice and work hard and struggle to produce something.

When Obama gave his infamous "You didn't build that" speech.
He pretty much said it all about the democrat party's attitude to that American work ethic.
He pretty much said anyone who aspires to that is a joke.
He was laughing with his worshipers behind him yacking it up.

That was the single worst thing I have ever seen an American in power say about another American.

I'd be willing to bet you right now that a pretty good portion of "conservatives" are stupid, disloyal, dishonest, lazy, and worthless just as a good portion of "liberals" are.

This is part of the problem, people want to define people by their political beliefs. That's ridiculous. There are PLENTY of hard working achievers out there who run successful businesses who believe in many of the same things Obama does.

And no doubt there are plenty of people who are "conservatives" who are on welfare and such and see no problems with it.

One doesn't have to go very far to see such hypocrisy from people.

Pointing fingers and screaming "you liberals!!!!!" or "you conservatives"""" instead of working together to achieve is why we are where we are.

You know, actual fist fights on the floor were common in early Congresses. But at the end of the day, they got the work of the people done. How did they manage that? I mean to go from a fist fight to an agreement?

Maybe because they passionately disagreed while at the same time respecting that the other "side" still had a legitimate role in the discussion.

Now we just see people passionately disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, many times without even having a freaking clue what it is they are talking about. All they know is "oh other side for it, me against it"

and nothing ever gets solved..............

I'm sick of all of it. Stupid is stupid, regardless of political leanings ; and if you can't or won't accept that both sides also have intelligent well meaning people than you simply don't deserve a seat in the discussion.

 

[catzmeow]

Do away with SSI completely.

No. SSI funds care for people with severe disabilities, like my friend's daughter who has cerebral palsy, and also provides a safety net for low income seniors. I'd be happy with putting an income cap on benefit recipients, though.

Do away with the EIC completely

Ok

Eliminate welfare lifers by institution a strict cap on yearly and lifetime benefits.

Clinton did this in 1994. perhaps you weren't paying attention.

Restructure Social Security so that all income is taxed

You eliminated it above.

Any person who made $1M a year over the last 10 years prior to being eligible for social security is ineligible to collect social security

See above, where you eliminated it entirely.

Eliminate Pel Grants

Okay...replace with low interest loans. We benefit, as a country, from having a technologically adept populace. Require recipients to select fields of study with proven demand for workers.

No welfare for the minors who's parents are not US citizens regardless of the child's status. IOW yes if you come here and your child is born here he or she is an American, but you aren't collecting welfare.

Ok

A national sales tax of %5 on all retails sales , in addition to to the current income tax system OR just dump the income tax system altogether and go with a flat %12 sales tax, NO exclusions, no "poor people can't afford it" . Nothing.

I don't know enough about the subject of retail sales tax to know if this would cover the gap.

An import tax of equal percentage for any item bought abroad and brought into this nation

.

Ok.

still agree?

Mostly, except for the areas where your ideas conflict with each other.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Do away with SSI completely.

No. SSI funds care for people with severe disabilities, like my friend's daughter who has cerebral palsy, and also provides a safety net for low income seniors. I'd be happy with putting an income cap on benefit recipients, though.

Do away with the EIC completely

Ok



Clinton did this in 1994. perhaps you weren't paying attention.



You eliminated it above.



See above, where you eliminated it entirely.



Okay...replace with low interest loans. We benefit, as a country, from having a technologically adept populace. Require recipients to select fields of study with proven demand for workers.



Ok



I don't know enough about the subject of retail sales tax to know if this would cover the gap.

An import tax of equal percentage for any item bought abroad and brought into this nation

.

Ok.

still agree?

Mostly, except for the areas where your ideas conflict with each other.

My ideas do not conflict with each other I advocate getting rid of SSI , not the entire social security system.

As for your friend with a child with CP, I sympathize, I really do; but that isn't the government's responsibility. That may sound cold, but some cold realities are going to have to be faced in this country.

As for what Clinton did, are you saying that welfare lifers no longer exist?

 

[catzmeow]

My ideas do not conflict with each other I advocate getting rid of SSI , not the entire social security system.

As for your friend with a child with CP, I sympathize, I really do; but that isn't the government's responsibility. That may sound cold, but some cold realities are going to have to be faced in this country.

As for what Clinton did, are you saying that welfare lifers no longer exist?

SSi was set up to take care of people who can't take care of themselves. There is a segment of the population (an extremely small one) that this applies to.

Exactly what do you think should happen to a young woman who can't speak, can't feed herself, can't walk, can't write, is incontinent, and doesn't have any other social support than her mother.

Is your plan for Haley to be in a cardboard box on the corner?

I stated that Clinton put lifetime limits on assistance and reformed the conditions for obtaining it.

And, that's factual. Temporary Assistance for Needy Families - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[midcan5]

Such negativity needs a small child to take their finger and pull them out into the world....

'Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is'

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F9vRVyV914]All in the Family TV Intro (70's) - YouTube[/ame]

"Boy, the way Glen Miller played. Songs that made the Hit Parade. Guys like us, we had it made. Those were the days! Didn't need no welfare state. Everybody pulled his weight Gee, our old LaSalle (a car) ran great. Those were the days! And you knew where you were then! Girls were girls and men were men. Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again. People seemed to be content. Fifty dollars paid the rent. Freaks were in a circus tent. Those were the days! Take a little Sunday spin, go to watch the Dodgers win. Have yourself a dandy day that cost you under a fin (five dollar bill). Hair was short and skirts were long. Kate Smith really sold a song. I don't know just what went wrong! Those Were the Days!"

"I read the relevant policy papers—on health, education, debt, poverty, homeland security, climate change, the extinction of species, the wars of all against all—and I notice that they tend toward a common awareness (dimly grasped but distinctly felt) that a global consumer society, if left to its own devices, must devour the earth. Not with malice aforethought, or as a matter of ideology, but because that is its métier — the scorpion that kills the frog on whose back it is crossing the river because it knows not what else to do." Lewis Lapham 'Ignorance of Things Past'

Is it all in our minds? Jonathan Haidt: The moral roots of liberals and conservatives | Video on TED.com

 

[JustTheFacts]

My ideas do not conflict with each other I advocate getting rid of SSI , not the entire social security system.

As for your friend with a child with CP, I sympathize, I really do; but that isn't the government's responsibility. That may sound cold, but some cold realities are going to have to be faced in this country.

As for what Clinton did, are you saying that welfare lifers no longer exist?

SSi was set up to take care of people who can't take care of themselves. There is a segment of the population (an extremely small one) that this applies to.

Exactly what do you think should happen to a young woman who can't speak, can't feed herself, can't walk, can't write, is incontinent, and doesn't have any other social support than her mother.

Is your plan for Haley to be in a cardboard box on the corner?

I stated that Clinton put lifetime limits on assistance and reformed the conditions for obtaining it.

And, that's factual. Temporary Assistance for Needy Families - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I recognize that there really are people out there who just flat need help. And I even agree that even though a government shouldn't have to help, a claim that we are the greatest nation in the world would ring pretty hollow if we didn't.

That being said, helping those who are truly in need would be a lot more palatable if we weren't helping those who simply have a hand out.

Those are two entirely different groups of people.

 

[catzmeow]

I recognize that there really are people out there who just flat need help. And I even agree that even though a government shouldn't have to help, a claim that we are the greatest nation in the world would ring pretty hollow if we didn't.

That being said, helping those who are truly in need would be a lot more palatable if we weren't helping those who simply have a hand out.

Those are two entirely different groups of people.

I have no problem with tightening the standards and forcing many current SSI beneficiaries to participate in retraining programs to adapt to their current health conditions so they can still work.

 

[Michelle420]

Oh sure, the entity known as the United States will keep on in some fashion for quite awhile yet. But the country which took the world by storm is gone.

And the worst part is, its our own fault. The American who led this nation to greatness is by and large gone.

Perhaps most disturbing to me is the people who can't figure out that freedoms worth defending are NOT just those freedoms which YOU personally enjoy.

As an example, I'm a straight male , but I defend a man's right to be a gay if he wants. Why shouldnh't I? It doesn't affect me in the least, and we are a country of freedoms aren't we? By the same token, leave my guns alone.

Just as two examples.

Fully half of the people in this nation no longer contribute in the form of income tax, in fact many actually EARN money from the system, and many not only don't have a problem with that, they applaud it.

By the same token the super rich in this nation surely get benefits from such wealth that the common man will just never have access to and yes they can afford to pay accordingly, that isn't the same thing as saying "soak the bastards"

Welfare isn't doing us any favors either. Okay, I can buy that we need to provide a safety net for people who fall on hard times, and honestly anyone who disagrees with that is just a fool. But by the same token, folks we have people making their LIVING off of welfare, people living more comfortably than people who go out there and bust their ass every day and again we have people out there who are not only okay with it, they applaud it.

People who are adamantly anti Christian are also part of the problem. No one could possibly be as outraged over some of the things these folks claim outrage them. Oh my God Christians want to have a nativity scene on the town square , to the batmobile...

What part of the first amendment is so hard for some to understand I have a freedom to practice my religion, you don't have the freedom to not see me do so. The government is obligated to not interfere with my right. They are not obligated to keep you from having to see any form of religious practice.

Maybe this country needs to end.

Frankly, most days, I'm embarrassed to be an American.

If we want to save this once great nation of ours, we will have to save it one person at a time, otherwise it's of no use even trying.

Sorry for the long rant.

Thank goodness the American who led it is gone and along with that so is ownership of people, no slavery and women aren't property.

Now if we could just undo that 1886 Santa Clara vs Pacific railroad case in which corporations became a personhood. Who had rights back then to vote people into office and appoint judges only one group did.

Please link where more then half of all americans do not pay any income tax.

I agree we should reform welfare just flat out abolish it for corporations and banks and make some reforms for the indiviidual.

Perhaps it is good that old nation ideals is gone, I am looking forward to the modern age amaerica that allows ALL people to vote and contribute to shaping it.

 

[Trajan]

We could start at square one: pay off the national debt before we allow another spending spree. Oh, wait. The vote just favored the spenders. Many of the people think somebody else is responsible for their welfare because their teachers told them so and also teachers hate the school board who serve after working long days at their businesses, and everybody knows how evil businesses are to make people work when they don't want to.

I agree. Let's start with cutting our largest budget item by 30%: military spending. Then, let's restore tax rates to the level they were at in 2000. Then, let's eliminate corporate subsidies and support of products such as ethanol. Last, let's reduce social security payments to a sum total of the amount paid into the system by individuals. Finally, let's stop funding medicare for seniors whose incomes are above $40k a year.

still agree?

the largest budget item(s) (2011) are/were medicare/medicaid and SS. The DOD just comes in third behind SS.

So far defense has taken cuts, real and relative. The dod budget in 2003 minus the wars was 404 Bn. I don't have a problem with going back there, adjusted for inflation etc. to say 450-500Bn. And guess what? we are heading there aside from iraq and afghan, which are ending.

The relative cuts are in new equipment to replace aged and worn out equipment and not just due to the wars but due to advances in technology etc.

If we took your suggestion as to SS reduced to what you paid in, that would be hard to calculate, aside form just stop paying folks when their contributions run out, they may be 74 and boom, they run out and don't get a check at all, I don't see that as workable.

of course that would also mean that some folks don't get much at all, if via EIC they receive net money back after taxes that in reality if not name, bascially refunds their ssi withholding, they in effect may not have contributed very much at all and they will be paid out in less than 5-7 years.


when you say corp. subsidies, thats kind of vague, do you mean say, depreciation allowances?

I agree ala ethanol, its a boondoggle.


if the $$ taken in via 2000 tax brackets was used to pay down the debt. I would and have said so before, willingly agree, but aside from a balanced budget amendment, REAL Paygo or some such legal lever, I just don't see that happening.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I think the message was sent by the President
and he said it loud and clear just what the Democrat party thinks of
people who strive to achieve in this country.
To sacrifice and work hard and struggle to produce something.

When Obama gave his infamous "You didn't build that" speech.
He pretty much said it all about the democrat party's attitude to that American work ethic.
He pretty much said anyone who aspires to that is a joke.
He was laughing with his worshipers behind him yacking it up.

That was the single worst thing I have ever seen an American in power say about another American.

I'd be willing to bet you right now that a pretty good portion of "conservatives" are stupid, disloyal, dishonest, lazy, and worthless just as a good portion of "liberals" are.

This is part of the problem, people want to define people by their political beliefs. That's ridiculous. There are PLENTY of hard working achievers out there who run successful businesses who believe in many of the same things Obama does.

And no doubt there are plenty of people who are "conservatives" who are on welfare and such and see no problems with it.

One doesn't have to go very far to see such hypocrisy from people.

Pointing fingers and screaming "you liberals!!!!!" or "you conservatives"""" instead of working together to achieve is why we are where we are.

You know, actual fist fights on the floor were common in early Congresses. But at the end of the day, they got the work of the people done. How did they manage that? I mean to go from a fist fight to an agreement?

Maybe because they passionately disagreed while at the same time respecting that the other "side" still had a legitimate role in the discussion.

Now we just see people passionately disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, many times without even having a freaking clue what it is they are talking about. All they know is "oh other side for it, me against it"

and nothing ever gets solved..............

I'm sick of all of it. Stupid is stupid, regardless of political leanings ; and if you can't or won't accept that both sides also have intelligent well meaning people than you simply don't deserve a seat in the discussion.

The bottom line is when a democrat allows himself to vote crooked, to accept lobbyist money, to lie under oath, to not keep their vow to uphold the law, to partake in fraud or voter fraud or know someone else who does and not turn them in, he is guilty of being a traitor to the american people and should step down or be removed from office. This should be the way it is for both republicans, democrats, everyone in office! Everyone!

I know that one day there will be a judgment and they will stand before Almighty God and answer for their failure to uphold their oath to the constitution, the people of America and because they were given much ( responsibility and the honor of holding such a position because God allowed it to be ) they are going to either hear well done, Good and faithful Servant or depart from me you worker of iniquity ( evil ) and then they will be cast into hell for all eternity. Now if that wasn't enough to wake up anyone I don't know what would be. They are fools to believe there won't be a day of accounting. There will be.

 

[WillowTree]

Oh sure, the entity known as the United States will keep on in some fashion for quite awhile yet. But the country which took the world by storm is gone.

And the worst part is, its our own fault. The American who led this nation to greatness is by and large gone.

Integrity, Honor,Hard Work, Honesty, Charity,Faith,Kindness,Intelligence,Fairness, attributes which used to be easy to find are now as rare as a unicorn.

The average American is lazy, dishonest, disloyal, mean, stupid, and just downright unpleasant.

Watch some of these talk shows, or listen to talk radio or read some of these newspapers and you see the new attitude of Americans.

"anyone who disagrees with me is stupid" is the new catch phrase, no matter how stupid what that person thinks. It's always the other person who is stupid.

Or the trend, which isn''t all THAT new I suppose, of pretending like EVERYTHING from the other side is a stupid idea, and everything from your own side is a great idea. Which people from BOTH sides do, never mind that left and right both equally have good and bad ideas , frankly mostly bad ideas from both sides.

Perhaps most disturbing to me is the people who can't figure out that freedoms worth defending are NOT just those freedoms which YOU personally enjoy.

As an example, I'm a straight male , but I defend a man's right to be a gay if he wants. Why shouldnh't I? It doesn't affect me in the least, and we are a country of freedoms aren't we? By the same token, leave my guns alone.

Just as two examples.

Fully half of the people in this nation no longer contribute in the form of income tax, in fact many actually EARN money from the system, and many not only don't have a problem with that, they applaud it.

By the same token the super rich in this nation surely get benefits from such wealth that the common man will just never have access to and yes they can afford to pay accordingly, that isn't the same thing as saying "soak the bastards"

Welfare isn't doing us any favors either. Okay, I can buy that we need to provide a safety net for people who fall on hard times, and honestly anyone who disagrees with that is just a fool. But by the same token, folks we have people making their LIVING off of welfare, people living more comfortably than people who go out there and bust their ass every day and again we have people out there who are not only okay with it, they applaud it.

People who are adamantly anti Christian are also part of the problem. No one could possibly be as outraged over some of the things these folks claim outrage them. Oh my God Christians want to have a nativity scene on the town square , to the batmobile...

What part of the first amendment is so hard for some to understand I have a freedom to practice my religion, you don't have the freedom to not see me do so. The government is obligated to not interfere with my right. They are not obligated to keep you from having to see any form of religious practice.

More fun I suppose to make fun and claim people believe fairy tales, or what have you.

If you're 8. Which I suppose is about right since the average American has the mental capacity of an 8 year old.

Look at the recent shootings as another example of what I'm referring to.An absolutely horrible tragedy in Sandy Hook, and people don't have the decency to wait ONE week before making political hay out of it, people on BOTH sides.

Maybe this country needs to end.

Frankly, most days, I'm embarrassed to be an American.

If we want to save this once great nation of ours, we will have to save it one person at a time, otherwise it's of no use even trying.

Sorry for the long rant.

I don't care anymore. Not one little ounce.

 

[Some Guy]

I think the message was sent by the President
and he said it loud and clear just what the Democrat party thinks of
people who strive to achieve in this country.
To sacrifice and work hard and struggle to produce something.

When Obama gave his infamous "You didn't build that" speech.
He pretty much said it all about the democrat party's attitude to that American work ethic.
He pretty much said anyone who aspires to that is a joke.
He was laughing with his worshipers behind him yacking it up.

That was the single worst thing I have ever seen an American in power say about another American.

I'd be willing to bet you right now that a pretty good portion of "conservatives" are stupid, disloyal, dishonest, lazy, and worthless just as a good portion of "liberals" are.

This is part of the problem, people want to define people by their political beliefs. That's ridiculous. There are PLENTY of hard working achievers out there who run successful businesses who believe in many of the same things Obama does.

And no doubt there are plenty of people who are "conservatives" who are on welfare and such and see no problems with it.

One doesn't have to go very far to see such hypocrisy from people.

Pointing fingers and screaming "you liberals!!!!!" or "you conservatives"""" instead of working together to achieve is why we are where we are.

You know, actual fist fights on the floor were common in early Congresses. But at the end of the day, they got the work of the people done. How did they manage that? I mean to go from a fist fight to an agreement?

Maybe because they passionately disagreed while at the same time respecting that the other "side" still had a legitimate role in the discussion.

Now we just see people passionately disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, many times without even having a freaking clue what it is they are talking about. All they know is "oh other side for it, me against it"

and nothing ever gets solved..............

I'm sick of all of it. Stupid is stupid, regardless of political leanings ; and if you can't or won't accept that both sides also have intelligent well meaning people than you simply don't deserve a seat in the discussion.

From an elected officials standpoint, you're absolutely right. The controlling factions within both parties don't really have any interest in negotiating, getting together and working to solve problems. It's all finger pointing and political games just so that one group can get credit for something. I partly blame that on the president. Whether he's just too much an activist to come to the middle on some things or just a lack of leadership altogether, he's clearly not doing anything to remediate the situation. Then of course you've got your asshats in congress on both sides who deserve plenty of blame as well.

Don't pay much attention to media forces that talk politics and what not. Your partisan news channels, blogs, websites, etc, they make money off being polarizing, controversial, bombastic, etc. But, to your point, that goes back to their consumers. There will always be hyper partisan idiots out there but, really, they're in the minority. Most people are pretty level headed and lean one way or another depending on a handful of key issues that are important to them.